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2008 Presidental Election: Obama v McCain - Page 8 — Brooklynian

2008 Presidental Election: Obama v McCain

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  • I'm far from a Hilton fan, but that was pretty funny.

    Er, I mean _hot_.

    Or something.

    :mrgreen:

    And, this from 2005:
    "Andy Warhol said we all get our 15 minutes of fame," says Barack Obama. "I've already had an hour and a half. I mean, I'm so overexposed, I'm making Paris Hilton look like a recluse."
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48523-2005Feb23.html

    Gee, I just _hate_ it when people compare Obama to Paris Hilton!

    :mrgreen:

    Oh, and this nugget from Jake Tapper (ABC News' Senior National Correspondent, Washington bureau,) regarding _other_ ways Obama does not resemble the presidents on dollar bills:
    * No powdered wig
    * No wooden false teeth
    * No pince-nez in jacket pocket
    * No splinters on hands from chopping down cherry trees
  • this is hilarious:
    How to Catch a Puma: McCain-Clinton 2008
    Where I stand Where I stand Where I stand Where I stand Where I stand

    Behind every successful presidential candidate there is a...usually, a blah, generic, male vice presidential candidate. McCain, being a blah, generic, male politician already, can afford to take the kind of crazy risk he used to be known for (campaign finance reform, his stance against torture, among others). In fact, to the chagrin of many in his own party, McCain reaches out to Democrats often. What if he reaches out to a certain Senator in a pantsuit?

    Hillary Clinton and McCain get along famously (his witless sexist humor aside). Hillary praised McCain in the primaries, saying he was the only other candidate as qualified as she to deal with foreign policy challenges. Sure, there are some policy differences, but nothing that can't be worked out when an ltimate political victory is in sight. And there's no law I know of against a split-ticket administration.

    As a disgruntled former Clinton supporter, this excites me, but then I am already a registered Republican. However, there are Democratic Clinton supporters who are actively threatening to vote for McCain in retribution for the treatment of their beloved Hillary. They are calling themselves PUMA, as in "Party Unity My Derriere," except that they use a different word than I do to describe one's rear. McCain, with his younger wife, may be a male cougar, but he is angling for PUMA voters. This summer, he's been holding town hall meetings geared towards women, during which he takes special time to woo Hillary voters by lavishing praise on her run.

    Bill would be thrilled (and cooperative, for once) because Hillary would be the incumbent candidate in four short years when McCain finally retires. The former president's exhaustive campaigning could bring in many Latino voters. Chelsea and Megan, and their perfect coifs, could do a mega-college tour together! That ticket would win the popular and the electoral votes. And Hillary can finally set McCain straight on those beauty pageant and rape jokes.

    Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Is McCain-Clinton 2008 a match made in Heaven or what? I want to hear you PUMAS, Cougars, and RINOs roar!

    —Asma
    August 06, 2008
    http://www.glamour.com/news/blogs/glamocracy/asma/index.html
  • AND with Obama's poll numbers slipping...it's pretty much a tie now...
    He can't seem to break 50% and the assumptions about a landlside are long gone.

    I don't think his European trip helped him as much as the media says it did...
    Germans can't vote here.
  • SevenOneEighty wrote: AND with Obama's poll numbers slipping...it's pretty much a tie now...
    He can't seem to break 50% and the assumptions about a landlside are long gone.
    Rumors of this being a dead-heat election are greatly exaggerated. Obama's still ahead, and the conventions and debates haven't even happened yet.

    Continue to be pessimistic about Obama at your own risk.
  • alafairnadia wrote: this is hilarious:
    How to Catch a Puma: McCain-Clinton 2008
    Where I stand Where I stand Where I stand Where I stand Where I stand

    Behind every successful presidential candidate there is a...usually, a blah, generic, male vice presidential candidate. McCain, being a blah, generic, male politician already, can afford to take the kind of crazy risk he used to be known for (campaign finance reform, his stance against torture, among others). In fact, to the chagrin of many in his own party, McCain reaches out to Democrats often. What if he reaches out to a certain Senator in a pantsuit?

    Hillary Clinton and McCain get along famously (his witless sexist humor aside). Hillary praised McCain in the primaries, saying he was the only other candidate as qualified as she to deal with foreign policy challenges. Sure, there are some policy differences, but nothing that can't be worked out when an ltimate political victory is in sight. And there's no law I know of against a split-ticket administration.

    As a disgruntled former Clinton supporter, this excites me, but then I am already a registered Republican. However, there are Democratic Clinton supporters who are actively threatening to vote for McCain in retribution for the treatment of their beloved Hillary. They are calling themselves PUMA, as in "Party Unity My Derriere," except that they use a different word than I do to describe one's rear. McCain, with his younger wife, may be a male cougar, but he is angling for PUMA voters. This summer, he's been holding town hall meetings geared towards women, during which he takes special time to woo Hillary voters by lavishing praise on her run.

    Bill would be thrilled (and cooperative, for once) because Hillary would be the incumbent candidate in four short years when McCain finally retires. The former president's exhaustive campaigning could bring in many Latino voters. Chelsea and Megan, and their perfect coifs, could do a mega-college tour together! That ticket would win the popular and the electoral votes. And Hillary can finally set McCain straight on those beauty pageant and rape jokes.

    Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Is McCain-Clinton 2008 a match made in Heaven or what? I want to hear you PUMAS, Cougars, and RINOs roar!

    —Asma
    August 06, 2008
    http://www.glamour.com/news/blogs/glamocracy/asma/index.html
    :roll:
  • it's a *joke*. yeesh.
  • alafairnadia wrote: it's a *joke*. yeesh.
    image
    http://mccainclinton.us/
  • daver wrote: image
    PARIS RIHANNA 08 THAT'S HOT AMERICA T-SHIRT
    I kinda want one. is that lame? unfortunately, I don't think I can order one before I leave for ecuador. le sigh.
  • "gristmill wrote: John McCain put out this new ad yesterday, "Broken," in which he's portrayed as the "original maverick" and pledges to "battle Big Oil.
    He can't be serious.
  • Hrm. His lips may be moving, but all I'm hearing is Amy Lee.



    j/k :lol::lol:
  • Boygabriel wrote: [quote="gristmill]John McCain put out this new ad yesterday, "Broken," in which he's portrayed as the "original maverick" and pledges to "battle Big Oil.
    He can't be serious.
    That reminds me of that commercial where the business guy talks about sticking to the man, and his assistant dude says, "But- you _are_ The Man. So you're sticking it to yourself then?"
  • YES. Totally. I love that.



    Someone should mash up McCain's new ad with the Sprint one.
  • Boygabriel wrote: [quote=SevenOneEighty]AND with Obama's poll numbers slipping...it's pretty much a tie now...
    He can't seem to break 50% and the assumptions about a landlside are long gone.
    Rumors of this being a dead-heat election are greatly exaggerated. Obama's still ahead, and the conventions and debates haven't even happened yet.

    Continue to be pessimistic about Obama at your own risk.

    I will vote for Obama.
    But these aren't just rumors.
    Even Obama's camp is concerned - and they should be.

    It's a dead heat based on all credible polls ( which really mean nothing until October anyway). But they margin of error (2-4 points) is always covered.

    What information do you have that says different?
    Rasmussen is typically ahead of all trends according to the folks that track polls. Obama has lost as much as 8 points to McCain since June.

    Why?

    http://tinyurl.com/67pgnn

    I think you might be confusing the "media coronation" of Obama with actual votes...



  • SevenOneEighty wrote: I will vote for Obama.
    But these aren't just rumors.
    Even Obama's camp is concerned - and they should be.

    It's a dead heat based on all credible polls (which really mean nothing until October anyway). But they margin of error (2-4 points) is always covered.
    within a few points today, but that hasn't been how the campaign has been going, has it?

    image

    And really, that's my point. It isn't a dead heat race. Obama's maintained a lead, often a noticeable one. Combine that with the enthusiasm gap ("Obama’s supporters are three times as likely as McCain’s to be enthusiastic about their candidate."), McCain's seeming inability to break 44 points or hold a lead for any significant amount of time, the historical conditions of this election, and pointing to a couple-day increase of McCain's numbers (with a noted absence of a significant dip in Obama's actual numbers) is a pointlessly pessimistic exercise.
    I think you might be confusing the "media coronation" of Obama with actual votes...
    Nope. I think you're confusing exaggerated democratic pessimism with the actual conditions and trends of this election.

    Is it the dog days of August and Obama's had a bad week and that means McCain's gotten a little closer without actually claiming a lead or seriously damaging Obama's numbers? Yup.
    Is this race closer than it is a blowout right now? Yup.
    Is Obama in the driver's seat? Big yup.
  • One thing to be aware of is that throughout the primary Obama consistently got fewer votes than polls predicted. I expect this will hold true in the general as well. If you are a poll believer, you need to see him coming in with a decent lead.
  • "Obama has lost as much as 8 points to McCain since June. "


    It was the Republican attack ads that created this. The Democrats knew those attacks were coming but chose to do nothing to insulate Obama from them. This was the same pattern as occurred in 2000 for Gore and in 2004 for Kerry. Unfortunately, the Dems do not want the White House or they would have done something to stop the attacks.

    The Dems also do not want the Senate --- here in Minnesota they are doing nothing to stop an endless array of attacks upon Al Franken in his quest for the Senate seat. They did nothing to support Mark Dayton or he would stayed in the Senate. And they did nothing to preserve Tom Daschle's seat in South Dakota*. Imagine how the Senate would be (and what a different political direction the USA be in) if all three Democrats were there. Too bad that they don't want it.



    *Though not well known in NY, the Republican attack campaign against Daschle may have been the most vicious in modern political history.
  • prodigalson wrote: The Dems also do not want the Senate --- here in Minnesota they are doing nothing to stop an endless array of attacks upon Al Franken in his quest for the Senate seat.
    WTF are you doing in Minnesota??? :mrgreen:

    I think Franken may be a completely different thing. He has a lot of _issues_ and baggage, for real for real. Although I don't doubt that they are throwing everything at him including the kitchen sink and seeing what sticks.
  • daver wrote: One thing to be aware of is that throughout the primary Obama consistently got fewer votes than polls predicted. I expect this will hold true in the general as well. If you are a poll believer, you need to see him coming in with a decent lead.
    YUP!!

    And this is his real problem.
    His recent flips or...ahem...adjustments to positions (oil drilling, Iraq) have also hurt him in the poll. He is losing ground and even his team knows this. I am beginning to think he is running as McCain's running mate...

    AND

    With the recent "shenanigans" of Hillary shooting 'across the bow' and his unfortunate (possible) blunder of saying to count florida and michigan ( if a few super delegates change their mind, she is back in this thing - at least to sink them both). BTW, thanks too Ludacris. You are not helping.

    AND

    His refusal (fear) or going on Bill O'Reilly on Fox ( as Hillary did - and she did very well too) is hurting him as it did Kerry ( who admitted he should have gone on the HIGHEST rated cable show in the country too)

    His numbers are in deep doo-doo considering all of the media favoritism he has enjoyed (SNL, Leno and Letterman are joking about it...). He should have spent more time in Israel and Iraq and it is time to ADMIT the "Surge" in Iraq worked - and is working.

    People are starting to really question who this guy is and by a margin of 55% to 35% trust McCain more as a commander in Chief. You may hate FOX NEWS, but you had better start listening and seeing what is happening outside of the 5 boroughs and Obama better start listening too.

    And this book is doing better than Pelosi's right now and is getting a lot of buzz:

    image

    I have to say I am glad John Edwards is OUT for all intents and purposes. He is and always will be a sleezy, used car salesman, liar. Don't be in denial about what is happening because by the time you and he wake up, it will be too late. I think The trip (and the coverage) to Europe was a HUGE mistake for his election chances here in America.

    Obama will have to put the gloves on and start going toe to toe.
    This race is a dead heat. Make no mistake about it.
  • "WTF are you doing in Minnesota???"


    Temporary insanity - no cure.


    As for Franken, his critics say he is a bad guy for writing an article in Playboy magazine. The Democrats refuse to counter by pointing out that Norm Coleman's wife is a full time soft core pornographer.

    Republicans like to kick azz, Democrats, by contrast, remain intent on kissing azz. Here in the midwest, as in the south, this is viewed as weakness and explains why Dems cannot win here. If the Dems want to win they will need to toughen up and that isnt likely any time soon.
  • "Obama will have to put the gloves on and start going toe to toe."


    True. But he cannot go at it alone as Kerry was forced to do in 2004.

    Kerry was attacked by the Swift Boat liars none of whom managed to present a shred of evidence. Neither he nor the DNC chose to swing back and it cost him dearly. Moreover, the Dems refused to point out that the Iraq war is a lost cause that has brought up the national debt and lowered the USA's world wide estimation. They allowed the campaign's emphasis to be on Kerry rather than on Bush's many failings.

    It is the same thing today. For years McCain was criticized by fellow Republicans - more so than any other except for Nixon. He was also attacked by fellow veterans who say he was not tortured in NV prisons (his friend who recently endorsed him swears it never happened: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7459946.stm). McCain divorced his faithful wife and committed adultery by marrying someone else for her wealth. And finally, he is the biggest flip flop in political history. All this highly questionable history, yet the Democrats refuse to make an issue of any of this. Instead, they allow the campaign emphasis to be on Obama's perceived failings, not one of which have been proven to be true.

    As in just about everything in life, victory is a choice. The Democrats chose to lose the Wite House in 2000 and in 2004. They have followed the same campaign pattern today and it is evident that they have chosen to forefeit the White House once again.


    .........................................................................................................


    "the surge is working"


    It only appears that way: al-Sadr's unilateral cessation of violence is the real cause of this apparent success. Moreover, yesterday El Salvador and Georgia withdrew their troops as did Australia and other members of Bush's coalition of the dwindling. And the violence has only now begun in Kurdistan. Therefore, Bush's war has not been a success - a point Democrats refuse to exploit.
  • ^^Yes, and appearances are what matter here.
    This is Politics.

    McCain is appears to have been right about being for it and Obama appears to look wrong for being against it.

    It appears that Iraq is now pumping oil (yup, which I hope we do get a break on). I love it that so many people pretend we don't need oil.

    American troops are not getting targeted or killed anymore.
    There is still daily violence in iraq an much work to be done but to attribute it to pure coincidence or other related factors makes democrats appear..silly.

    And even Barrack is changing his tune because he realizes it.
    We are never leaving Iraq completely; get it out of your heads.
    BTW: We are in Germany, Korea and Japan too and we will always be there.
  • McCain will get destroyed for three reasons:

    1. He was in the Keating Five.
    2. Not supporting MLK Day.
    3. Supporting Bush in 2004.
  • seespaces,

    You can also add that McCain may perhaps be in big trouble of losing Ohio (which is poised to be a hyuuuuuge game/map changer) because it just came out that he pushed for a deal for transport services company DHL that killed *thousands* of Ohioans' jobs there. Obama's staff has pledged to carpet bomb Ohio with ads about this all the way through election day.

    100% valid discussion, not mud-slinging. This election is about promises being made and past direct acts in office being weighed in accordingly. Fair game, play ball.
  • SevenOneEighty wrote: His recent flips or...ahem...adjustments to positions (oil drilling, Iraq) have also hurt him in the poll. He is losing ground and even his team knows this...
    No he's not. Show me a poll where his numbers have dropped significantly.
    SevenOneEighty wrote: His refusal (fear) or going on Bill O'Reilly on Fox ( as Hillary did - and she did very well too) is hurting him as it did Kerry...
    Proof, polls or analysis?
    SevenOneEighty wrote: His numbers are in deep doo-doo considering all of the media favoritism he has enjoyed...
    No they're not. He's been winning almost since day one of the general election. If you'd like to predict Obama's downfall after the conventions and selection of a VP, go ahead...

    ...
    SevenOneEighty wrote: People are starting to really question who this guy is and by a margin of 55% to 35% trust McCain more as a commander in Chief. You may hate FOX NEWS, but you had better start listening and seeing what is happening outside of the 5 boroughs and Obama better start listening too.
    A republican is seen as a better war-wager!? OMG! It's hopelessssss!
    SevenOneEighty wrote: This race is a dead heat. Make no mistake about it.
    I like your analysis. "this race will be a dead heat b/c the polls were closer last week, and because I said so"
  • SevenOneEighty wrote: American troops are not getting targeted or killed anymore.
    Congratulations. You've turned an invasion into an occupation with a bloody civil war with No End In Sight.

    When do our troops get to come home?
    SevenOneEighty wrote: There is still daily violence in iraq an much work to be done but to attribute it to pure coincidence or other related factors makes democrats appear..silly.
    More silly: claming the Surge is the main reason violence is down.
    More more silly: ignoring what will happen when we stop the $million$ in US Tax money flowing to the "Sunni Awakening".

    Seriously. Answer that quesiton.
    SevenOneEighty wrote: And even Barrack is changing his tune because he realizes it.
    b/c people like you and the media think the Surge is achieving some kind of permanent success, without anyone being able to actually give specifics about what "success" and a "goal" and an "exit plan" is.

    Go ahead. I'm waiting.
    SevenOneEighty wrote: We are never leaving Iraq completely; get it out of your heads.
    No disagreement there.
    SevenOneEighty wrote: BTW: We are in Germany, Korea and Japan too and we will always be there.
    BTW: to compare postwar Germany/Korea/Japan to anything that's going to exist in Iraq in the next 50 years is a joke. You can compare Iraq to Japan when the ethnic cleansing is reversed, the 4 million refugees return home, there's a functional representational government both locally and nationally, and the electricity is on for more than 3 hours a day.

    Until then, spare me.
  • ....Don't hate the messenger.

    Your passion is admirable - but wont help Obama in the key swing states where he is behind in the polls or where it is a dead heat.
    Just check Rasmussen. It's all there, its all there.

    http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08214/901065-176.stm
    Obama slipping in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida, poll shows
    Friday, August 01, 2008
    By James O'Toole, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
    Illinois Sen. Barack Obama held a slightly reduced lead over Arizona Sen. John McCain among likely Pennsylvania voters, as new poll results showed movement toward the Republican in three key states.

    A Quinnipiac University Poll conducted from July 23 to July 29, after Mr. Obama's trip to the Middle East and Europe, depicted the Democrat with a lead of 49 percent to 42 percent in the Keystone State. The same organization had reported his Pennsylvania edge last month at 52 percent to 40 percent.

    The difference between the two findings was not much more than the surveys' 2.7 percentage point error margin, but previous Obama leads also eroded somewhat in Ohio and Florida, resulting in a virtual tie between the presidential contenders in those closely watched states. The Quinnipiac researchers found Mr. Obama leading by 46 percent to 44 percent in each.

    New national polls showed similar slippage in Mr. McCain's direction. The Gallup organization's latest daily tracking poll showed Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain in a virtual dead heat, with 45 percent favoring the Democrat and 44 percent for the Republican. A national survey average compiled by the Web site, Pollster.com, showed Mr. Obama leading, 47 percent to 42 percent. A similar aggregation by Realclearpolitics.com puts the average at 46.8 percent for Mr. Obama and 43.9 percent for Mr. McCain....
    DOH!!

    The New York times and Obama himself have already admitted the surge IS working. We sent in more guys, the violence went down.

    And that is exactly how it is playing out.

    And even Obama has had to concede that.
    You can talk about "maybe's" and "what ifs" all you want.
    Things arent perfect and a lot can go wrong for sure.
    But from my perpsctive and many other voters, McCain was right on the surge - even if you hate the war.

    And yes, I say so.
    And so does the Liberal Bible, the NY Times - reluctantly and with many " "yea, buts". Security nd breathing room that did not exist before is there now. The united states military is awesome and I am thankful for what they were able to do - when they were given the opportunity to do it properly.

    Obama will not win any elections not giving the US military props.
    Believe it.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/21/world/middleeast/21security.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

    Big Gains for Iraq Security, but Questions Linger

    By STEPHEN FARRELL and RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.
    Published: June 21, 2008

    BAGHDAD — What’s going right? And can it last?

    With improved security, Iraqis crowded a market in Basra. The city, Iraq’s second largest, had been controlled by Shiite militias. More Photos >
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    Robert Nickelsberg/Getty Images for The New York Times
    The Abu Niwas Street park in Baghdad. More Photos >
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    Robert Nickelsberg/Getty Images for The New York Times
    The Abu Niwas Street park along the Tigris River in central Baghdad in May. With the hot weather and a cease-fire agreement in Sadr City, crowds in the park have increased. More Photos >
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    Violence in all of Iraq is the lowest since March 2004. The two largest cities, Baghdad and Basra, are calmer than they have been for years. The third largest, Mosul, is in the midst of a major security operation. On Thursday, Iraqi forces swept unopposed through the southern city of Amara, which has been controlled by Shiite militias. There is a sense that Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki’s government has more political traction than any of its predecessors.

    Consider the latest caricatures of Mr. Maliki put up on posters by the followers of Moktada al-Sadr, the fiery cleric who commands deep loyalty among poor Shiites. They show the prime minister’s face split in two — half his own, half Saddam Hussein’s. The comparison is, of course, intended as a searing criticism. But only three months ago the same Sadr City pamphleteers were lampooning Mr. Maliki as half-man, half-parrot, merely echoing the words of his more powerful Shiite and American backers. It is a notable swing from mocking an opponent perceived to be weak to denouncing one feared to be strong.

    For Hatem al-Bachary, a Basra businessman, the turnabout has been “a miracle,” the first tentative signs of a normal life.

    “I don’t think the militias have disappeared, and maybe there are sleeper cells which will try to revive themselves again,” he said. “But the first time they try to come back they will have to show themselves, and the government, army and police are doing very well.”

    While the increase in American troops and their support behind the scenes in the recent operations has helped tamp down the violence, there are signs that both the Iraqi security forces and the Iraqi government are making strides. There are simply more Iraqi troops for the government to deploy, partly because fewer are needed to fight the Sunni insurgents, who have defected to the Sunni Awakening movement. They are paid to keep the peace.

    Mr. Maliki’s moves against Shiite militias have built some trust with wary Sunnis, offering the potential for political reconciliation. High oil prices are filling Iraqi government coffers. But even these successes contain the seeds of vulnerability. The government victories in Basra, Sadr City and Amara were essentially negotiated, so the militias are lying low but undefeated and seething with resentment. Mr. Maliki may be raising expectations among Sunnis that he cannot fulfill, and the Sunni Awakening forces in many cases are loyal to their American paymasters, not the Shiite government. Restive Iraqis want to see the government spend money to improve services. Attacks like the bombing that killed 63 people in Baghdad’s Huriya neighborhood on Tuesday showed that opponents can continue to inflict carnage.

    Perhaps most worrisome, more than five years after the American invasion, which knocked Mr. Hussein from power but set off great chaos, Iraq still lacks the formal rules to divide the power and spoils of an oil-rich nation among ethnic, religious and tribal groups and unite them under one stable idea of Iraq. The improvements are fragile.

    The changes are already affecting Iraq’s complicated relationship with America. In the presidential campaign, a debate is rising about whether the quiet means American soldiers can leave.

    Iraqi Officials Gain Confidence

    American military commanders are seeing a new confidence among Iraqi leaders. They said they believed that the success of the recent military operations had played a role in the Iraqi government’s firm rebuff of American negotiators over a new long-term security pact to govern the United States military presence after the end of this year.

    “They are feeling very strong right now, after Basra, Mosul and Sadr City,” said one senior American official.

    The most obvious but often overlooked reason for the recent military success has been an increase in the number of trained Iraqi troops.

    The quality of the recruits and leadership has often been poor, even in recent months. In Baghdad’s Sadr City, one Iraqi company abandoned its position in April, forcing American and Iraqi commanders to fill the gap with hastily summoned reinforcements. In Basra, more than 1,000 recently qualified soldiers deserted rather than obey orders to fight against Mr. Sadr’s Mahdi Army. One senior Iraqi government official conceded that the deserters simply “felt that the other side was too strong.”

    But sheer numbers have helped to overcome the shortcomings. After the embarrassing setback in Basra, Mr. Maliki was able to pull units from elsewhere to provide reinforcements and saturate the city with checkpoints and patrols, restoring a measure of order after years of domination by Islamist militias and oil-smuggling mafias.

    American officials said 50,000 members of Iraqi security forces took part in the Basra campaign, 45,000 in Mosul, and 10,000 in Sadr City — troops that would not have been available to Mr. Maliki’s predecessors. The Iraqis had by far the largest numbers of troops, although American and other coalition troops provided crucial air power, reconnaissance, logistics, medical support and even expertise in psychological operations.

    One key source of that manpower has been training: Over the past year the Iraqi Army has added 52,000 soldiers; the Iraqi police and the national police have added 59,000; and Iraq special operations forces have added 1,400 troops, Lt. Gen. James M. Dubik, chief of the American security training and equipping mission, said last month. Yet another reason was that many troops were not tied down fighting Sunni insurgents in places like Anbar Province. That is thanks to the Sunni Awakening, and a related program in which the American military has paid thousands of former insurgents and militia fighters and made them neighborhood guards.

    “Our successes reduced the pressure on the Iraqi security forces by more than 50 percent,” said Sheik Hussain Abaid, the leader of one such pro-American group south of Baghdad.

    Ali Hatem al-Suleiman, an Awakening leader in Anbar, said an entire Army regiment of Anbari tribesmen was sent to fight in Mosul, while a division based in Anbar was rushed to Basra after commanders decided that a more stable security situation in Anbar meant the troops could be freed to fight elsewhere. Even Shiite government officials, long suspicious of the Awakening because it employs insurgents responsible for the deaths of Shiites, agreed. “Before, there was a security void in their areas, but they were able to fill it,” said Ali Adeeb, a senior official in the Dawa party and a close ally of Mr. Maliki.

    Defining a Military Victory

    But the government’s successes in Basra and Sadr City were not so much victories as heavy fighting followed by truces that allowed the militias to melt away with their weapons. “We may have wasted an opportunity in Basra to kill those that needed to be killed,” said one American defense official, who would speak candidly about the issue only if he was granted anonymity.

    And in Mosul, the celebrations over the performance of the Iraqis who fought there have glossed over the tremendous — but hidden — role played by American Special Operations forces to clear out the toughest enemy fighters before the Iraqi soldiers arrived in full. “It is underreported how much the secret guys did to set the conditions for the Iraqi Army to go in and do what they did,” the official said.

    What remains to be seen is whether the Iraqi government can capitalize on the operational successes with concrete steps that improve the lives of people in the three areas, like basic municipal services and economic opportunities. “The fear is unrealistic expectations,” the American defense official said. “Services do take time.”

    Failure to follow through could wipe out many of the gains in places like Hayaniya, one of Basra’s most deprived areas and a Sadrist stronghold, where residents already grumble that they have seen little evidence of improvement. “They said they will repair schools and roads — but when and where?” said Ali Alwan, 45. “It is only talk. We suffered during the military operation, but what is the reward?” Mr. Maliki’s operations against fellow Shiites in Basra and Sadr City have bought at least temporary political good will from Sunnis who long saw his Shiite-dominated government as the enemy. Interviews with three dozen Sunni merchants, academics, teachers, laborers, government officials and office workers in former insurgent strongholds like Falluja, Tikrit, and Baghdad’s Adhamiya, Amiriya and Fadhil neighborhoods suggested that the prime minister had gained some ground with a group whose loyalty is essential in building a unified and stable state.

    Abdul Hadi Jasim, a barber from Adhamiya, said, “Now, after one of the biggest Shiite militias that ravaged Basra was targeted, I think there is a sense of justice and fairness.” But old suspicions linger, and Sunnis remember the slaughter inflicted by Shiite militias from 2004 to 2007, and how Shiite death squads were protected by Iraqi security forces. In addition to the Mahdi Army, many Sunnis fear the Badr organization, the armed wing of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, a close ally of Mr. Maliki’s Dawa Party. Badr forces dominate some Iraqi security force units.

    “Maliki’s war was a selective one,” says Falah Muhammad Abdullah, 46, an engineer from Falluja. “Why does Maliki’s government hunt down the Mahdi militia while it neglects Badr?”

    Sunni Skepticism Remains

    Many Sunnis are convinced that Mr. Maliki is trying to serve other masters: Iran, the Americans, or his own Dawa Party and the Islamic Supreme Council. Both face a serious challenge from the Sadrists in provincial elections later this year.

    Mowafaq Abu Omar, a 52-year-old street merchant in Adhamiya, voiced a common suspicion — that the true aims of the Basra operation were to seize control of Iraq’s only significant port and to advance the creation of a large, autonomous and oil-rich Shiite super-province in the south.

    There is also less enthusiasm for the recent operation in western Mosul, which is largely Sunni. Eman al-Hayali, a teacher in Amiriya, praised Mr. Maliki for weakening Mr. Sadr’s Mahdi Army but said she feared the Mosul operation was intended to satisfy the Maliki government’s patrons in Iran and telegraph a message to Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: “Do not worry, your excellency, we are also killing Sunnis.’ ”

    With such suspicions just below the surface, stability would be jeopardized if former insurgents serving in the Awakening forces come to believe that they are being used by the Shiite-led government while getting little in return.

    “We are pleased with the government only regarding the war against the Shiite militias,” says Khalid al-Summaraie, a Sunni militia leader in Baghdad’s Fadhil neighborhood. He added pointedly, “They haven’t done anything for us that will give us a better standard of living.”

    Another important factor buoying Mr. Maliki has been the sharp rise in oil prices, which, among other things, has allowed the Iraqi central bank to buy back its currency at a feverish pace, forcing the value of the Iraqi dinar higher and limiting increases in consumer prices. Driven by higher food costs, inflation stood last month at the rate of 16 percent, up from 11 percent in January.

    But that rate might be a good deal higher without the central bank’s aggressive policies. The bank spends $1 billion to $1.5 billion every month in oil revenue to buy Iraqi dinars on the open market, said Mudher M. Salih Kasim, senior adviser to the bank. This is the main lever for controlling consumer prices, said Mr. Kasim, who noted that the value of the dinar had risen about 20 percent against the dollar. An oil price crash, he added, would be “a disaster.”

    The government is also trying to funnel money to placate Iraqis who endured the military operations in Sadr City, Mosul and Basra and cement their loyalty. Tahseen al-Sheikhly, a spokesman for the Baghdad security plan, said $100 million would go to Sadr City to upgrade economic and social conditions there in the wake of the two-month military operation, which left buildings shattered and markets destroyed. Dr. Safaa al-Deen al-Safi, who is charged with carrying out development and reconstruction activities, said another $100 million would be spent on areas like health and education.

    Reversible Gains

    The anti-government and anti-occupation forces have also stumbled. The Islamist Sunni insurgents alienated many Iraqis with a trail of blood and bans on alcohol and smoking. And as attacks on Shiite areas by Sunni insurgents dropped, Shiites who had looked to the Mahdi Army for self-defense were less willing to put up with abuses.

    But the improvements in Iraq face an array of destabilizing provincial, national and regional forces. The Sunni insurgency — now in many places operating as pro-American Awakening groups — continues to wait to see whether the government makes good on promises of jobs and a less sectarian administration of security and public services and infrastructure.

    The Sadrists remain powerful and may not forgive what many consider a betrayal by Mr. Maliki, who could not have become prime minister two years ago without their blessing. Mohanned al-Gharrawi, a senior Sadrist cleric in Baghdad, said, “We feel like a bridge that they used to reach their aims and goals, and then they left us behind.”

    Despite their newfound confidence, some senior Iraqi officials close to Mr. Maliki said that without an American military safety net they are vulnerable to threats from outside and inside their borders. One important but less-noticed element of the security negotiations has been Iraq’s effort to extract an American pledge to defend the government against foreign or domestic aggression. Mr. Adeeb, the top Maliki adviser, said officials wanted the Americans to protect the Iraqi government against anything the government viewed as a threat — not just what the Americans saw as a threat.

    “Our political system is weak, the terrorists and former regime members are sparing no effort to overthrow the system, and neighboring countries have their own ambitions,” Mr. Adeeb said. “Our army is not qualified to defend Iraq yet.”

    Stephen Farrell reported from Baghdad and Basra, and Richard A. Oppel Jr. from Baghdad. Reporting was contributed by Andrew Kramer from Mosul, Mohammed Husain, Suadad al-Salhy, Anwar J. Ali, Riyadh Muhammad, Ali Hameed, Mudhafer al-Husaini, Tareq Maher and Maha Malik from Baghdad, and Iraqi employees of The New York Times from Baghdad, Basra, Mosul and Falluja.
    re: O'Reilly:

    Factoid: Its the higest rated show beating MSNBC, CNN and NBC every night. More people watch his show than those shows at 8pm. No one beats him.

    Kerry admitted his fault for not going on in 2004. Hillary was man enough to go on when she was in trouble. Obama is coming off as a coward.
    Oreill'y watchers ( more than MSNBCs) as saying as much as well on the Oreilly daily polls. he knows Oreilly will ask him tougher questions than the other networks and thats why he is afraid.

    I say so too.
    He had better go on.
  • Just to clarify, are we talking about the actual Surge, or the Surge as voters, pundits and yourself see it?

    media/perceived "Surge" = success, we're winning, Dems wrong, Repubs right.

    Real life = Surge hasn't led to any significant political gain, army integration, or development of services, there is no exit plan, we are not winning.
    SevenOneEighty wrote: And so does the Liberal Bible, the NY Times - reluctantly and with many " "yea, buts". Security nd breathing room that did not exist before is there now. The united states military is awesome and I am thankful for what they were able to do - when they were given the opportunity to do it properly.
    Why do you continue to ignore the other major (probably more important) factors in the reduction of violence?

    It's inaccurate and misleading.
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