Shooting yesterday
Comments
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Sje, I got a summons for riding on the sidewalk about a month ago. Because the cars were double-parked on my block, I rode 1/4 a block to the corner (I live on Park b/w Classon and Franklin) and was about to hop onto the street when, Hello, officer.
After I got a ticket, I was like, Don't you have anything better to do? Like perhaps look into some drug dealing or shooting.
They smirked. "We don't know anything about drug dealing or shooting, do we? Maybe we'll take you into the station and you can tell us all about it."
I thanked them for filling their quota and walked away.
Blah.
The court date will be your biggest waste of life. Show up, stand around, and have them tell you that the fine is $50. Luckily, you can pay with a credit card! -
DaveB,
I am so sorry to hear about the mugging and the lackluster response from the NYPD. I wish you a speedy recovery.
After reading your account of the mugging as well as the break ins you have experienced, if you are a renter I would seriously consider moving to another part of the neighborhood. It seems that certain blocks in Prospect Heights are worse than others. My husband experienced a mugging very similar to what you described in 1991. He bounced back from the experience but it took some time. Be sure to take care of yourself.
Best,
DeeDee -
DeeDee wrote: DaveB,
Thanks, I actually was planning on moving prior to all this happening anyway. For the time being, I'll be moving to Washington Ave. at the end of the month. It's not much better, but at least it's an active street and the likelihood of stuff like that happening is less. I'm committed to sticking to this neighborhood though and while I do plan to move again, I'm only thinking of just getting myself closer to Flatbush.
I am so sorry to hear about the mugging and the lackluster response from the NYPD. I wish you a speedy recovery.
After reading your account of the mugging as well as the break ins you have experienced, if you are a renter I would seriously consider moving to another part of the neighborhood. It seems that certain blocks in Prospect Heights are worse than others. My husband experienced a mugging very similar to what you described in 1991. He bounced back from the experience but it took some time. Be sure to take care of yourself.
Best,
DeeDee -
sje wrote: Wow, that's awful, and I wish you a speedy recovery inside and out. A few years ago I went to community safety meeting at the 77th precinct way up in Crown Heights, I think. I was pretty appalled/scared at the neighborhood there, it makes our end of the precinct look really tame. I wonder if the cops are so busy up there they just can't be bothered?
its definately a possibility. there's a pretty heavy beat cop presence where i live. i've been in crown heights for 4 years and nobody has yet messed with me or my boyfriend, even the "corner businessmen."
whereas i have been randomly punched on the street TWICE in park slope by some "badass thugs," and i have been followed by a gang of miscreants in williamsburg who were so obnoxious and scary my rather large male firends and i had to duck into a bar to get away from them. though its not like we wouldn't have ended up in a bar, it was still unsettling.
so maybe those that would be prone to engaging in a little of the old ultraviolence just go over to park slope, williamsburg, or prospect heights where the takings might be better than my empty wallet.
ugh...i don't think i logged in...this is t-fal -
so maybe those that would be prone to engaging in a little of the old ultraviolence just go over to park slope, williamsburg, or prospect heights where the takings might be better than my empty wallet.
While I get your point totally, it's funny because a few years ago I was living in Williamsburg at the corner of Rodney and Broadway. If you don't know it, just take my word that it's a really, really bad area, far away from the hipsters. Projects, gangs, crackheads, it was terrible. Yet, no one ever messed with me and my apartment never got robbed. Go figure. -
Dave,
I'm terribly sorry that you experienced that. I know how you feel, because I've been there, too. One thing that helped me in the aftermath was looking back and analyzing what had happened to me. By doing that, I learned an awful lot about body language, environmental cues, and general safety tips. As a result, I've been able to avoid a handful of potentially troubling situations ever since. A good general web resource is www.nononsenseselfdefense.com, which is a comprehensive resource on the topic. If you're feeling shaken, it might help to call the city's help line, 1-800-LIFENET, and get some referrals for crime victims groups. Speaking with others who have endured the same thing might help you cope. Lastly, by googling "post traumatic stress disorder" you can learn about some typical emotional reactions to attacks such as yours. PTSD was originally aimed at soldiers in combat, but it can be applied to any traumatic situation. Hang in there and keep your chin up. With time, you'll feel better. -
Jack Krohn wrote: Dave,
Thanks, but I think I can handle it.
I'm terribly sorry that you experienced that. I know how you feel, because I've been there, too. One thing that helped me in the aftermath was looking back and analyzing what had happened to me. By doing that, I learned an awful lot about body language, environmental cues, and general safety tips. As a result, I've been able to avoid a handful of potentially troubling situations ever since. A good general web resource is www.nononsenseselfdefense.com, which is a comprehensive resource on the topic. If you're feeling shaken, it might help to call the city's help line, 1-800-LIFENET, and get some referrals for crime victims groups. Speaking with others who have endured the same thing might help you cope. Lastly, by googling "post traumatic stress disorder" you can learn about some typical emotional reactions to attacks such as yours. PTSD was originally aimed at soldiers in combat, but it can be applied to any traumatic situation. Hang in there and keep your chin up. With time, you'll feel better. -
I can totally understand the frustration many feel re: police presence in the neighborhood and their “indifference†to the crimes that do take place. It is an issue that we often discuss in the Vanderbilt Avenue Merchants meeting.
About a year ago a couple of us, business owners on Vanderbilt, got sick and tired about the lack of police presence and attention to emergency calls and managed to set up a meeting with the precinct. Interesting enough, every other politician also made an appearance to assure us that they cared about this neighborhood, wanted to help us succeed, blah, blah, and blah… In any case, the police told us that they were not always aware of the “crimes†that take place in the neighborhood because according to them people often do not report them. After the meeting we immediately saw officers patrolling and even got a beat cop walking around. This lasted for a couple of months and made a huge difference. Fewer muggings and definitely less people “hanging†around. However, as expected, the patrolling has stopped and problems again have started.
I spoke to the Commanding Officer at the precinct, James O’Connell, last week and he said he would pay a little more attention to this area. But, I suggest that if any of you have had any problems, you should call him directly. He is a nice guy and means well, but definitely needs to be reminded that PH residents also have problems. And, of course, calling the politicians always helps especially in an election year. -
HouseBroken wrote: I spoke to the Commanding Officer at the precinct, James O’Connell, last week and he said he would pay a little more attention to this area. But, I suggest that if any of you have had any problems, you should call him directly. He is a nice guy and means well, but definitely needs to be reminded that PH residents also have problems. And, of course, calling the politicians always helps especially in an election year.
Is there a central list for these numbers/people? If not, creating one would be pretty helpful, I think. I'd host it on my site, but i doubt it's topic appropriate. Dailyheights.com would be a better spot as it's community oriented. -
If someone wants to create it, I'll post it.
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As you all know, anywhere in NYC around any corner lies a new adventure. Crime has been an unfortunate element of urban living and can spring up unpronounced. Though crime activity has greatly declined here in Prospect Heights over the years, it does seem to pick up during the summer (and the XMas holiday). Be especially careful when travelling alone down those long dark blocks. The St. Johns block between Washington and Underhill has been referred to as "Crazy Lane" by some of us. Also, locals are very agitated about rent hikes and the threat of having to relocate. People who have lived here all their lives are now being forced out.
On another note, I'm surprised to see so many people casually active in the park late at night. Be aware as you become an easy target of crime. In the past there have been attacks, robberies, and rapes of joggers and others wandering about... especially after dark.
Stay alert, keep your cell phone handy, try not to walk around noticeably wasted; whistles, mase, pepper spray and all that is good too. A former girlfriend of mine took a self defense class. I was surprised to see how many tricks there are to fend off attackers. This might be a good investment especially for young single women.
I don't mean to go old school, but like Whodini said:
"If you want to live yourself a nice quiet life,
do yourself a favor and don't come out at night... cause,
The Freaks Come Out At Night." -
Lack of police? I think I have seen a police officer on the beat in PH like maybe 5 times (besides that big fat one who hangs around the Q train). I do not know why cops have to be in cars all the time? Just so they can show up a but faster after a crime has been commited? I'd like to see more cops on bicyles or walking the beat.
Personally, I'm not a fan of cops. I do not think of them as heroes. I do not know another profession where you can not do your job and still get paid. I do not know how many times I have seen cop cars drive by the double parking mess that happens on Flatbush Ave between Carlton and Sterling without doing a damn thing. There should be one officer at all times during the day there.
We need a proactive force not a reactive force. I do not buy that the crime rate has gone down because of proactive policing. -
Subject: po po
i saw some cops with the undercover police SUV... drive up on the sidewalk on washington ave, remove a poster for some hip hop show, rip it up... drop it on the ground.... and drive away.
i mean,
WTF?! -
WTF indeed!
My husband did see someone get nailed very discreetly by an undercover officer on the shuttle platform a couple of weeks ago...maybe there are more wandering around than we think. But I don't know if what we need is LESS visibility, seriously. Or the kind of "policing" noted above. Geez. -
The behavior of the cops "policing" the parade this weekend only reinforces what I said above (a few months ago). There are obviously exceptions, but the guys on the corner of Underhill and St. Johns, randomly stopping pedestrians from getting to the parade via Underhill were out of control! It seemed like they were letting some people through and randomly stopping others. They also seemed to be getting a little too much joy out of turning people away- like they couldn't wait to get home and masturbate about the whole thing.
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Carnivore wrote: Part of the problem is a ridiculous NYPD rule that doesn't let cops work in the neighborhood they live in. The result is an occupation force of thugs from Jersey and Long Island that hate the people they're supposed to be protecting.
You can't live in New Jersey and be a police officer in New York City. About a month ago, I got statistics of where NYC police officers live within the 5 boroughs, Suffolk, Nassau, Rockland, and Orange counties. There were no police officers listed as residing in New Jersey from the stats that I got from the NYPD. -
alan wrote: [quote=Carnivore]Part of the problem is a ridiculous NYPD rule that doesn't let cops work in the neighborhood they live in. The result is an occupation force of thugs from Jersey and Long Island that hate the people they're supposed to be protecting.
You can't live in New Jersey and be a police officer in New York City. About a month ago, I got statistics of where NYC police officers live within the 5 boroughs, Suffolk, Nassau, Rockland, and Orange counties. There were no police officers listed as residing in New Jersey from the stats that I got from the NYPD.
The stats:
Office of Management Analysis
and Planning
1 Police Plaza
New York, NY 10038
July 27, 2005
Dear Alan:
On behalf of Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly, I am responding to your recent e-mail request for information.
As of June 30, 2005, the residency of our uniform members is as follows:
Bronx3,247
Brooklyn4,291
Manhattan1,486
Queens5,425
Staten Island4,051
Nassau County5,398
Suffolk County5,463
Orange County2,068
Putnam County 534
Rockland County1,406
Westchester1,574
I hope the information I have provided is useful. If you wish additional information about our department, please visit our website at www.nyc.gov/nypd.
Thank you for your interest in the New York City Police Department.
Sincerely,
Kevin J. Walsh
Captain
Resource Analysis Section -
To echo everyone else's sentiments, I am sorry about what happened to you Dave and hope all wounds heal quickly...
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alan wrote: You can't live in New Jersey and be a police officer in New York City. About a month ago, I got statistics of where NYC police officers live within the 5 boroughs, Suffolk, Nassau, Rockland, and Orange counties. There were no police officers listed as residing in New Jersey from the stats that I got from the NYPD.
Cops just have to maintain an "official residence" in the city, which in reality just means that they have to have a family member that lives here. Everyone knows damn well that plenty of NYPD cops live in Jersey. They even made a movie about it ("Copland").
The stats:
Additionally, even using the stats you listed (which don't take fake residences into account), almost half of NY cops don't even live in the city (18,500 in the city, 16,443 Westchester and Long Island)! That's even counting the Staten Island ones as being in the city. That's ridiculous. If cops were required to live in the same zip code they worked in, they would have a much better understanding of the area they were policing. There'd also be much less resentment on both sides of the blue line. -
That's ridiculous. If cops were required to live in the same zip code they worked in, they would have a much better understanding of the area they were policing. There'd also be much less resentment on both sides of the blue line.
I might have agreed with you when people wanted to be cops. Nowadays the NYPD needs a high budget recruitment campaign just to get people to take the test. If you forced them to live in the 5 boroughs, you would have to relax other requirements and/or pay them more. Then you'd complain that they're overpaid or that they're underqualified. I agree that there are plenty of cops who don't respect or understand the communities that they're supposed to protect, but simply thinning the pool of qualified applicants by restricting where they live doesn't seem like an effective way to change that. For the record, I worked with the NYPD (as a civilian) for 11 years and some of the most compassionate and decent cops i met lived out of the city, and some of the biggest jerks i met lived in the city.
JC -
Carnivore wrote: [quote=alan]You can't live in New Jersey and be a police officer in New York City. About a month ago, I got statistics of where NYC police officers live within the 5 boroughs, Suffolk, Nassau, Rockland, and Orange counties. There were no police officers listed as residing in New Jersey from the stats that I got from the NYPD.
Cops just have to maintain an "official residence" in the city, which in reality just means that they have to have a family member that lives here. Everyone knows damn well that plenty of NYPD cops live in Jersey.
The stats:
The FDNY was cracking down on this last year (firefighters have the same requirement) -- all they had to do was look at the license plates on the cars of officers on duty. Some guys were called in and required to show their car registration.
So, yeah, plenty of cops live in NJ. -
joncane wrote: That's ridiculous. If cops were required to live in the same zip code they worked in, they would have a much better understanding of the area they were policing. There'd also be much less resentment on both sides of the blue line.
I might have agreed with you when people wanted to be cops. Nowadays the NYPD needs a high budget recruitment campaign just to get people to take the test. If you forced them to live in the 5 boroughs, you would have to relax other requirements and/or pay them more. Then you'd complain that they're overpaid or that they're underqualified. I agree that there are plenty of cops who don't respect or understand the communities that they're supposed to protect, but simply thinning the pool of qualified applicants by restricting where they live doesn't seem like an effective way to change that. For the record, I worked with the NYPD (as a civilian) for 11 years and some of the most compassionate and decent cops i met lived out of the city, and some of the biggest jerks i met lived in the city.
JC
Can you clarify what requirements would have to be relaxed?
I have to agree with Carnivoire on this one. There are benefits to living where you work. My best friend is a Sgt with the NYPD and she purchased her home with the "officer next door program" in which she was given a low interest rate, no down payment and a small loan to improve the property all because she bought her house in the pct. where she works.
Even growing up on Wyckoff St. our beat cop was from the area and believe me he kept a few really good kids out of the system - all because he knew us and our families. -
"Crazy Lane?"
Man, I've been living on St Johns between Underhill and Washington for almost four years now and it's always seemed safe to me. My roomate (female) got non-violently mugged last year, but that was about it.
It's interesting the different experiences different people can have on the same block. -
JC
Can you clarify what requirements would have to be relaxed?
BTW, I agree that *on the whole* cops who live in the city are more respectful of the communities they serve. I just that those who advocate a residency requirement are painting with too broad a brush and generalizing about people - much the same way some cops generalize about the citizens of NY.
My point is that if you wave your magic wand and eliminate all cops who admit to living outside of our fair city, you've depleted the force by about 15,000. At present, it's already hard to find enough candidates to take the test, and if you don't allow those outside of NYC to take the test, there won't be enough cops. Unless we're going to pay them what they make in Nassau, Suffolk, Rockland, Orange, etc., we'd have to relax some combination the education requirements, the physical requirements, the psych exams and age requirements in order to get enough NYC residents who are willing and qualified to be cops. Perhaps that's what you want, but I'd prefer to have a larger pool of candidates to choose from. That in no way means that we should tolerate cops who are disrespectful to the citizens they serve.
JC -
Carnivore wrote:
I wasn't arguing that half the cops didn't live outside the 5 boroughs - I was arguing that there weren't many cops that live in Jersey. If there were cops living in Jersey and using a fake residence in NYC, it probably would not be a significant chunk of the force; why would someone want to pay more in taxes and get paid less than a typical New Jersey officer?
Additionally, even using the stats you listed (which don't take fake residences into account), almost half of NY cops don't even live in the city (18,500 in the city, 16,443 Westchester and Long Island)! That's even counting the Staten Island ones as being in the city. That's ridiculous. If cops were required to live in the same zip code they worked in, they would have a much better understanding of the area they were policing. There'd also be much less resentment on both sides of the blue line.
http://www.policepay.net/newyork/wage.htm
http://www.policepay.net/jerseycity/wage.htm
And risk getting fired?
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=445826&postcount=47
It's easier to live on LI, SI, or Westchester than to have to deal with fake addresses...
Also, if cops were to patrol their own neighborhood, would they be corrupted by local politicians and businesses? If Officer Joe Bacon was getting free donuts and coffee from a local bakery, who's to say he wouldn't turn a blind eye to certain infractions that business might be committing?
And what about bad neighborhoods? Would they have understaffed police precincts? Would the good officers eventually take plush jobs outside the bad neighborhood they live in?
I'm not disagreeing with you when it comes to residency; I think all cops need to live in NYC, but I don't necessarily think they need to live in the same neighborhood. If this was the case, some neighborhoods would be filled with cops, while others would be significantly understaffed. Cops like to live and breed with their own (look at the SI stats; cops make up almost 1% of the total population). -
Isn't starting pay something like 27,000 for cops? I'm sure they get beacoup overtime, but still, thats a major obstacle to living inside the city limits.
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arielbl wrote: Isn't starting pay something like 27,000 for cops? I'm sure they get beacoup overtime, but still, thats a major obstacle to living inside the city limits.
They also get some type of extra pay, I forget the exact name, tha amounts to about $6000 a year. I think it's for uniforms and what not.
Oh, and jsut a side note: Does th cops parking their own vehicles anyway they please down at the Bergen/Flatbush/6th Ave area piss anyone off? -
I've worked with a few people in law enforcement, and there is a program named "The Officer Next Door." They find homes (at a steep discount) for people that work in law enforcement. These homes are in locations that could use, uh… a little more lawfulness. This doesn't necessarily mean that they are stationed in said neighborhood, though. The program is available to members of the PD and corrections... maybe others as well, but I'm not certain.
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Oiseau wrote: [quote=arielbl]Isn't starting pay something like 27,000 for cops? I'm sure they get beacoup overtime, but still, thats a major obstacle to living inside the city limits.
They also get some type of extra pay, I forget the exact name, tha amounts to about $6000 a year. I think it's for uniforms and what not.
Oh, and jsut a side note: Does th cops parking their own vehicles anyway they please down at the Bergen/Flatbush/6th Ave area piss anyone off?
AND they get at least HALF pay when they retire (which is only 20 years after they start) AND full benefits for the rest of their lives. My friend's husband just retired (he started young) and now he gets FULL pay from the NYPD and now has another job so he is getting TWO salaries! -
arielbl wrote: Isn't starting pay something like 27,000 for cops? I'm sure they get beacoup overtime, but still, thats a major obstacle to living inside the city limits.
See this forum:
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32559
"Under the binding decision rendered Tuesday, new officers will be paid at an annual rate of $25,100 while they're in the academy. The salary jumps to $32,700 upon completion of the six months of training. Combined, first-year cops now will be paid a base of $28,900."
But hey, don't worry, we don't need that many cops because crime is on the decline *sarcastic cough*!
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