Has Grand Army Plaza (GAP) actually been improved?

If you actually follow the crosswalks I guess it's better. Otherwise it;s a crapshoot out there with cars coming at you from every angle and you really don't know which light is changing and when. Getting to and from the center circle with the fountain is very scary.

when I first moved here, my folks visited. we'd been to an aliseo/sepia combination a few nights and wanted a change. we had had a crap experience at shane and decided to venture to park slope. unknowinly, I took them to eastern parkway rather than sterling to cross into the slope. my dad, who suffered a stroke a few years ago, was literally being dragged through intersections by my mom and I. we had no clue what was going on with the lights at GAP but we knew this: there was some sort of random number generator creating the pattern. no matter where we went (because we didn't actually learn from the trip to the slope - we walked back through on our way back), we ended up stranded in the middle of some 8 lane monstrosity with cars driving toward us. totally disconcerting.

and people wonder why i totally avoid:
the park
the farmer's market
the botanical garden

pain in my ass!

Subject: Re: DUH

caaahyoko wrote: Why do they keep fixing everything but the biggest problem?? If they would just set up the traffic lights in front of the library to actually allow you to cross both without stopping in the island, there would at least be ONE safe place to cross. Which, incidentally, seems to be the most used pedestrian intersection. Common sense, DOT! :roll:

I'm guessing that if they allow cars going both directions on Flatbush to enter the circle, the circle will get too congested with traffic. I can't think of any other reason, other than a specific hostility to pedestrians. Any urban planners out there have other ideas for possible justifications?

stacey wrote: Every time we go to the park my son tells me this would be a great place for an elevated walkway so he can ride his bike straight from the park to the other side of the avenue. I thought this was a pretty good idea.

But it would block the view of the arch from Flatbush. Maybe an underpass would be better, although I'm not sure of that's possible either with the subway there.

8thandPrez wrote: I'm an urban planner and I can think of no good reason why pedestrians should be stranded in the middle of Flatbush bc of such poorly-timed lights. I can't count the number of times I've leaped off the curb when the walk signal appeared and, every time, I haven't even reached the island before the Don't Walk Hand starts flashing. It's ridiculous. DOT is ruled by engineers who want to get cars through the plaza as quickly as possible... pedestrians are annoyances. It's sickening that Brooklyn's grandest public space should be so completely compromised by traffic engineers.

I'm not saying I agree with it, mind you. I'm just saying that if you place a higher premium on moving traffic through the circle than on pedestrian concerns, blocking traffic going both ways through the circle at the same time severely diminishes it's capacity to move traffic through it.

not an urban planner, but I have some familiarity with these issues from talking about flow on Eastern Pkwy btw GAP and Washington...

it is a matter of timing the incredibly complex traffic flow. Think of the number of traffic vectors coming into GAP: at least 8, with at least as many vectors going out. That's about 60 different potential traffic patterns (eg entering on Union and exiting on Eastern Pkwy is one pattern, entering on Eastern Pkwy and exiting on Union is another, etc. etc.) not even counting the times when the park roads are open.

For the most part, the flow works very well, with sufficient time to cross a given intersection from safe point to safe point. Crossing PPW, EPkwy, Vandy, Flatbush at the north end, and Plaza at any give point is rarely a problem. Getting to the center is much more difficult, and the way I do it from Epkwy does involve jay-walking from the Genl. Slocum statue to the arch or fountain. At the north end and southwest ends, there are crosswalks that get you there.

And of course, the crossing at the library is wretched. The problem, as I understand it, is that the southbound traffic (that wants to go down Flatbush) cannot be backed up too much, or else it will impede flow from Union or Plaza West that would technically cross the vector to go up Eastern Pkwy or around the arch northbound. So those cars need to be moved out expeditiously. Notice that almost no cars get caught at the library crosswalk southbound unless they dashed through the light back by the arch. This is actually really good timing (for autos!)

Solutions? I think if you moved the library xwalk south on Flatbush and allowed some sbound traffic to back up, you could let pedestrians cross straight across Flatbush without needing an island. Make it un-jay-walkable by putting up some fencing along the library plaza....

8thandPrez wrote: . DOT is ruled by engineers who want to get cars through the plaza as quickly as possible... pedestrians are annoyances. It's sickening that Brooklyn's grandest public space should be so completely compromised by traffic engineers.

I think the ghost of Robert Moses is still hanging around city government. :twisted:

why don't they have ped.x-ing on BOTH sides of the arch?

plus, i kind of like that fountain thing in the middle but no one else goes there probably b/c of difficulty x-ing so it's kind of sketchy.

It's a hideous crossing, swamped with cars. I will NOT cross in front of moving vehicles, I wait for them to stop. Some of them are pigs who block the crosswalk. I really don't know how they expect people to deal with the hazard. The drivers don't give a damn. Piss poor planning all around.

At least, on red, there is no traffic turning into the crosswalk, a practice which is totally insane and should be banned citywide. Why can't we have the crosswalks to ourselves at least?

The pedestrian overpass into Prospect Park from Mt Prospect is actually a good idea. How do we rid the park of cars? That is the next question.

Timing the traffic flow is helpful in beating the pedestrian lights across the street, but this takes years of familiariy I'm afraid. The constricted sidewalks around the new development and the library are also making things miserable, forcing people into the street. No wonder I have not been visiting the park/greenmarket much lately. The trek is much too aggravating especially with a dog in tow.

I swear sometimes I've been on that island in front of the library with my two 15 lb dogs, someone with a big 30+ lb dog and someone with a mega-stroller. And of course, the person with the stroller is looking at everyone's dogs like they're going to eat their child. :roll: Its those tense situations that make it really irritating.

Subject: EPkwy crossing

The crossing I hate most is at Eastern Parkway next to Plaza Street East. One direction of traffic (coming from museum down towards GAP) gets a red light first, giving people a false sense of security. They start to cross only to be run down by the opposite side zooming at them. That light for the opposite side of traffic is obscure too. I always wait for the walk sign but it seems like a lot of cars don't stop (the ones making the turn from Flatbush). If you're unfamiliar with the area, I think it's easy for cars to miss and so dangerous!!!!