airplane noise

I'm aware of the factual inaccuracy of my first post. :roll: It's still way up high and has never bothered me and thus my point still stands. This is the first I've heard of anyone in Park Slope complaining about aeroplane noise.

did you not at least read the first post that started this thread:

"...I have airplanes flying low and loud over my house every two minutes almost all the day, on their way to La Guardia. It this normal? Does anybody else notice the noise? What do you do about it?"

BTW, thanks for the e-mail from [email protected]. The net is not as anonymous as you think.

I wouldn't worry about it. With the number of cutbacks airlines are making and airline bankruptcies, the number of flights over your precious house will soon decrease.

I've lived in North/Central slope for about 10 years and I have only rarely noticed the airplane noise and I have not noticed a change in that time either. Come to think of it - it is pretty amazing that airplane noise is not a bigger nuisance given that we live relatively close to three very busy airports.

I have noticed an increase in the activism around airplane noise in Park Slope recently. I wonder if the OP's innocent question is part of that effort.

blevine77 wrote: I have not really noticed a problem in the 18 months I've lived here.

However, I have noticed that recently, it's practically daily that a helicopter is flying overhead, sometimes for hours. Anyone know what the deal is with that? Yesterday it was at around 6:15pm.

I think there was some sort of small get together yesterday up along Eastern Parkway, it's possible the helicopter was connected to that :-)

And I just want to agree with the earlier poster. For a city that has three huge (i.e. all the same size not like a big O'Hare and tiny Midway type deal) airports right on its doorstep (i.e. not miles and miles out of town) first of all you should be grateful to be so lucky to have such choice and really surprised the noise isn't worse.

now i read this thread, i just heard 3 planes flew over in the last 1 minute. sometimes it bothered me when im watching tv and missed out some important lines but other than that, it doesnt bother me at all.

when i was in college, i used to live in an apartment next to a rail road track, with 3 hospitals close by, 10 minutes walk from fire house, and 20 mins drive from airport. i heard all sorts of noise throughout the day. i could hardly sleep the first few nights, but i got used to it, and im glad.

so when i moved to an apartment in nyc, just half block away from above ground subway, the noise didnt bother me at all anymore

Dodd, Specter Support Court Challenge to FAA Airspace Redesign

Senators File Legal Brief Voicing Concerns over FAA's Failure to Address Noise Pollution


September 8, 2008

Senators Chris Dodd (D-CT) and Arlen Specter (R-PA) today announced they have filed an amicus brief in support of court challenges to the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) proposed airspace redesign over Connecticut, New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. On Friday, the Senators submitted the brief to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia for the case of County of Rockland, et. al v. U.S. Department of Transportation.



Dodd and Specter argue that, contrary to the requirements of federal law, the FAA did not make a serious effort to alleviate the effects of dramatically increased noise pollution on the communities impacted by the airspace redesign. The brief contends that relegating noise reduction to merely a “consideration” in the redesign project is a narrow interpretation of federal statutes and, furthermore, ignores repeated and clear Congressional action that makes noise mitigation a primary concern of the agency. The brief details the actions Congress has taken to extend the FAA’s oversight authority on aviation noise pollution and mitigation.



Both Dodd and Specter have spent more than a year working with local officials, meeting with constituents, and demanding answers from the FAA about the frequency, altitude and number of flights impacting residents within the airspace redesign, but the FAA has failed to directly address the concerns that Dodd, Specter, and many other members of Congress have raised. Senator Dodd convened a town hall meeting in Norwalk to hear his constituents’ concerns about the redesign plan, and has written several letters to the FAA voicing his objections. Senator Specter chaired a public hearing in Philadelphia in April 2008 to question the Acting Head of the FAA about the redesign and new flight paths.



“While an airspace redesign plan may in fact be needed, it seems that in this case the FAA opted for a quick fix at the expense of the quality of life of millions of Americans affected by their proposal,” said Dodd. “Controlling noise pollution caused by air traffic is not optional for the FAA – it is mandatory. The communities who suddenly find themselves dealing with the roar of low-flying aircrafts throughout the day and night have a right to call upon their government to address this problem, and the FAA has a responsibility to take their concerns seriously.”


“The FAA’s failure to give due weight to considerations of noise mitigation has had a serious impact on many communities, including those in Delaware County.” Specter said. “In the ongoing effort to reduce flight delays and enhance safety, it is my hope that the FAA will reconsider the redesign plan with more focus on their noise reduction mandate.”



In response to environmental and other regulatory concerns about the airspace redesign plan, numerous lawsuits have been filed against the FAA. The case of County of Rockland, et. al v. U.S. Department of Transportation encompasses several pending cases, including those filed by several communities in Connecticut and Pennsylvania.



For the full text of the brief, click here

daver wrote: [quote=joseph11]Its very easy. If you don't like it, leave.

I'm not all over the Park Slope situation, and as much as I'm fond of anything fucking over Park Slope, it really isn't that simple. Where do you leave to? And why should you have to leave just because the FAA willy nilly decided to change flight patterns? And what happens after a few years when you are in the comfort of your _new_ home when the FAA changes the flight patterns _again_ and you are once again a main thoroughfare? There is the situation of people who KNOWINGLY move into a flight path and then complain. Fuck them. Twice. But for people who have maybe lived decades in their home and suddenly find themselves in the flight path, it is a bit more complicated.

It is not very complicated Daver -
I've made my opinion known a few times on the "If you don't like it - leave" retort. Basically it is a silly and juvenile comment. Some people can choose to leave if they like and the rest of us can stay and try to make our neighborhoods better. This goes for airplane noise (which I don't agree is a problem in Park Slope), crime, loud bars, obnoxious neighbors, bad smell, etc. I might not agree that something is a problem, but I certainly don't begrudge my neighbors from making their points without being told to move.

Subject: "Love it or Leave It"

Yes, that is what the advocates of the Vietnam War used to scream at those of us who protested, including the Vietnam Vets who cam back and joined the protests. Thank God we did not listen to them.

No, the airplane noise is NOT the Vietnam War, but it is governmental abuse of power and PATRIOTIC citizens have a right to protest for a redress of grievances.

And I can assure you, as one who has lived in Park Slope since 1973, THERE WERE NO PLANES FLYING AT 2,500 FEET AT 1 PER MINUTE FROM 6AM TILL MIDNIGHT!

Yes, there was always noise--and I never complained about the noise. BUT THERE WAS NOT THE CURRENT AMOUNT OF AIRPLANE TRAFFIC NOISE AND POLLUTION resulting from the FAA redesign of the Air Space that RECENTLY took place.

As an American patriot who served honorably in the Unites States Marine Corps during the Vietnam War, I choose to STAND AND FIGHT governmental abuse rather than leave.

To join the fight, sign the petition at http://AirTrafficParkSlope.org

sorry, i was not responding to you. I meant to respond to the other person

Jamzer wrote: [quote=daver]"If you don't like it - leave" isn't _always_ appropriate, but it isn't always unwarranted either. And if you don't like it, leave.

I completely disagree. If you don't like something about a neighborhood you have every right to try to change it - regardless if it was like that when you moved in. For example, if I move into a neighborhood that does not have a coffee shop, am I not allowed to complain that there is no coffee shop? You set some pretty stiff rules for when someone is allowed to complain. By your logic, I can't complain about a bar if it was there when I moved in. But what if the bar was quiet for years and years and then after I move in, they install a juke box and start playing loud music?

Jeez man, without complaining, this board would not exist!
I like you, you're argumentative and won't give up.

OK, then, I can _so totally_ buy the need to rally for Starbucks for those who have to do without. I mean, the humanity!

I understand what you are saying, and you're pulling me into a gray area that I am disliking.

A lot.

Back in my homeland, we have areas that are designated as floodplains. These areas serve as water basins during infrequent flooding situations, which occur on average maybe once a decade. There _are_ building restrictions in these areas, but they are not nearly what they _should_ be. In my opinion. So people buy land in these areas (for cheap) and build cheesy homes. Why are the cheesy? Well, because it takes a _special_ kind of person to build in a floodplain, and insurers are actually bright enough not to insure anything built there, severely limiting financing options.

So what happens eventually? A big storm. Everyone's homes get flooded. BIG news coverage of families staring across a lake at their roof. Pull the heartstrings. Next thing you know, we've got hundreds of millions of dollars committed to flood diversion and a new dam upstream to protect these people's homes. That built in a floodplain.

They raised their voices in complaint, and changed their situation, and the public financed a new dam. In retrospect, it would have been a LOT cheaper to just GIVE them houses elsewhere. But -NO- we had to go through this whole rigmarole.

I have a point. But it is fleeting.

Anyway, if you move in above a loud bar, then that is your floodplain and you deserve to drown. If you move somewhere quiet and then someone crappy moves in, then that is your diverted river and I support efforts to fix that. Sometimes.



And I _always_ support the right to bitch and complain, but I will choose the bitches and complaints that I view as valid and those that are not.

Daver, no wonder I like you. We grew up around the same type of idiots.

What? That big brown thing swelling over the crest of the hill? Nah, we should be fine here.

Doesn't bother us either. These will be the same people complaining about the long delays at airports around the Holiday's.


Clinton Seeks to End Limits on Landings at New York and Chicago Airports

Published: February 6, 1999

The Clinton Administration wants to end limits on how many planes can land in an hour at New York's Kennedy International and La Guardia Airports as well as Chicago's O'Hare International Airport, said people who have been briefed on the plan.

The change would make it easier for start-up airlines to challenge established carriers, at a time when transportation officials have been taking steps to increase the capacity of airports to handle traffic and to promote airline competition.

NY Times

http://tinyurl.com/4ygxcg

There be planes over PS forever, even before Idlewild got its name changed.
If the planes don't go over PS, they go over someone else's neighborhood.
Cant go to the west. Too many tall buildings on the island west of this one, and much bigger whiners with more clout in the Heights, let alone Manahatta.
If the planes go to the east they could get in the way of the landing rights of the airport f/k/a Idlewild. And they go over the heads of people who don't have as much as the people to the west.
If they stay higher they'll have to do Baghdad International-like maneuvering to land. And the people in Long Island City, Elmhurst, Astoria etc. will complain more.
Hey I've seen it all from a seat at Shea Stadium and above in a plane when the wind blows the wrong way and your plane has to make a turn at the Fairgrounds and do its landing pattern almost behind the scoreboard [pre Citi Field].

The problem continues ... and it all has to do with the prevailing winds.