house on Prospect Place sold to non-profit

wirenut · September 2008

All we hear these days is the HOUSING CRISIS where some are loosing their homes to foreclosure due to a combination of shady practices and a generally declining economy. We hear about wise real estate investors snatching up “bargains” because of the mess.

Locally we have a property at 836 Prospect Place, a 1 family home that has been flipped a few times and was on the market for about a year. It sold again in Dec 2007. According to city records it looks to me that the buyer is a non-profit from Midwood Brooklyn with funding coming from the State of New York, OMRDD (Office of Mental Retardation and Developmental Disabilities). The amount shown as the “funding” is somewhere around $1.35 million. It looks as though they will be putting a group home in there after renovating it to their needs.

This thread is NOT about whether there should be a group home but only about the real estate value aspect.

It’s a very nice house with a large lot. But, what private individual could possibly afford to pay $1.35 million for a one family house in Crown Heights? Is this the true market value for this house? Or was there some kind of sweet backroom deal cut to favor a preferred seller? If the real estate market is so depressed, why does the government have to overpay for a house it wants to start a program in?

Any thoughts?

mougar · September 2008

A smaller house across the street is listed at $1.3 million: http://www.brooklynrealproperty.com/homepage.htm?in_listing=5413174&in_brokercode=XFIL08. Both are ridiculously overpriced for that area.

whynot_31 · September 2008

OMRDD exists in a different real estate market than the rest of us ...they are seeking large homes, with sympathetic (or unorganized) neighbors.

..another criteria, the homes should be near where the residents have family: Relatives of MR/DD individuals are tired of having to trek to Utica because it was the only OMRDD community residence with a vacancy.

...not sure if 1.3 mil is a lot, given the above constraints.

homeowner · September 2008

I think it is close to fair market value considering the property included a two car garage and enough off-street parking for the previous owner to have rented out spaces to friends and neighbors (if I remember correctly there were 8-9 cars on a rotating basis).

One block away, on Park, a smaller semi-detached with a driveway (no garage) sold several years ago for $990k. Back before this most recent RE bubble burst, houses north of $900k were not that unusual in these sections of Crown Heights North where there are still some pretty fabulous victorians, brownstones, and limestones.

The reality was that at the price the owner was asking there were only two types of potential buyers 1) a developer who would have torn down the house to put up condos or 2) social service programs that need this type of large home that can be converted for their use and are willing to pay a premium.

The listing for 855 Park Place above isn't really a comparable as it is a fully attached brick walkup. A better comparison would be this or this or this. There is something to be said for sellers being realistic about the market, but if I remember correctly the building you are talking about went into contract last year, when the market was a lot different than it is now.

boogieknight · September 2008

This sort of thing raises a sticky question. In this particular instance no one wants to be a villain and give developmentally disabled people a hard time about finding housing and services - but this is very similar to what a lot agencies/companies that deal w/ the mentally ill or drug/alcohol dependents or halfway homes for released felons or sex-offenders etc do. It’s about the number of social services beds in our neighborhood.

As exorbitant as the prices may seem to an individual - these large houses in neighborhoods like CH are a bargain. Private agencies buy them and fill them with whoever they want. In most cases they likely get a large amount of money from the City/State, which has funds disposable for the care of whatever group is to be housed but doesn't want to be directly responsible for said individuals.

And because it’s a small private group - they can purchase and populate without any community oversight whatsoever. Again, CH has a disproportionate amount of social services beds, more than any other nabe in NYC. Not all of those beds are run directly by the city - many of them are run by private groups whose main client is the municipal/state government.

There were two empty brownstones on my block - they were either sold to a private agency which has now outfitted them as a SRO/halfway home for recently released male felons or the owner approached the city offered them a deal.

If the City had purchased the buildings themselves and tried to set them up as such they are – housing for 10-20 recent released male felons – the City would have had to submit to a vetting process by the community and likely voted down. But since its "private property" - it just happens overnight.

Imagine that if the block you live on had 5 properties for sale. They're bought by one owner who then fills them as social service beds. Basically overnight there could be dozens if not hundreds of such beds on your block. Imagine what that would do to your property value or your sense of safety.

It sounds callous I know, but just imagine that if the City itself tried to build/place 100 social service beds on anyone’s block – most residents of said block would oppose such a plan. The commonly trotted out line about how these beds are placed in our community because we’re close to the recipient’s families has to be bull. 90% of all recipients of City aid and services are from Crown Heights and the immediate are? Really?

I think that's a major loophole in this city and something should be done to correct it.

slopelisa · September 2008

what's the non-profit? i just poked around and it seems like nothing's going on with the building...sold a year ago and nothing...

brooklynleather · September 2008

Wow, beautiful house. It does seem pretty expensive for that block though.

whynot_31 · September 2008

BoogieKnight wrote:
The commonly trotted out line about how these beds are placed in our community because we’re close to the recipient’s families has to be bull. 90% of all recipients of City aid and services are from Crown Heights and the immediate are? Really?

Indeed, OMRDD would certainly have a hard time claiming that. Crown Heights is "vulnerable" to such facilities because it has:

1. Large homes that are not sought after as intact mansions by rich people. (the agency can't afford houses in really nice neighborhoods)

2. A racial make-up which closely mirrors the future residents of the Group home. (it gets points for this from its funders)

3. A community which is perceived to be either sympathetic or disorganized. (this saves on legal fees).

So, yup, these facilities will likely keep being built in Crown Heights until one of the "big 3" factors listed above changes. ....doesn't mean I agree with it, just means that I know how it works.

P.S. Yes, the agency routinely calls folks who oppose its facilities as being disability phobic, etc ...their priority is to open the facilities, not make friends with the nieghbors.

whynot_31 · September 2008

...back on topic, it looks like a lovely home. I hope its taken care of by its new owners!

wirenut · September 2008

Thanks for all the comments. It's good to get other opinions.

I didn't know about this LOOPHOLE thing that allows no community imput to the social programs

I love the building and the two next to it and always fantasized about buying one if it became available. But hundred year-old buildings need alot of repairs/renovations/money and cost a bundle to heat also. So when you wip out our calculator and do some realistic number crunching, the average Joe doen't have a chance.

As Homeowner said the only players are the social programs and developers, but perhaps also weathy individuals

How ironic that these home were originally built for rich people and it has come to that again.

ben · September 2008

The reason a developer didn't buy it is because they would have had to tear it down for it to be a viable project. However, other similar properties in the area had emergency landmarking granted to them once a developer tried to get demo permits thus resulting in significant losses for the developers.

It's a tricky situation, the only people who can really realize the value of the property are the developers and social service organizations, neither of which the community wants. Turns our the social services orgs can slip under the radar easier so that's who wins.

mantic · September 2008

From what I know, the two houses were owned by the same family, and some others on the block. They sold out more thana year. The one pictured sold 2.

FYI: There is are quite a few group homes, rehab and halfway houses in the hood.

daver · September 2008

wirenut wrote: I didn't know about this LOOPHOLE thing that allows no community imput to the social programs

I wouldn't say that there is a loophole that allows no community input, but rather that there isn't anything that _requires_ it. Which is a mixed bag. If you tried to get everyone's permission, I don't care WHERE you tried to site it, you would fail. NIMBY runs rampant. You can't please everyone, and the facilities are needed. That said, it would stand to reason that _some_ sort of better balance could be achieved.

capt. planet · September 2008

Homeowner, I can't believe you're unaware of the huge opposition that the OMRDD purchase of the home on Prospect PLace caused. There was such a hew and cry that an entire new community group, Crown Heights Revitalization Movement, known as CHRM, was born. Numerous meetings were held, OMRDD went through the whole song and dance and of course, OMRDD won. But CHRM is still alive and well.
They are currently leading the opposition to the Dept of Homeless Services plan to convert the Bedford Atlantic Shelter into the city's only intake center for homeless men.
CHRM also produced a report showing that CB 8 has the highest concentration per acre of social service beds in the borough. This is all based on publicly available data but no one ever bothered to look at the numbers before. Thanks a lot, City Planning Commission.
This whole fracas led to a vote at the CB 8 meeting I believe in June that placed a moritorium on any new supportive housing beds in the CB.
Most recently an Alternative Learning Center is being placed at the corner of Brooklyn Avenue and Prospect Place by the Dept of Education. It will house up to 75 middle school youth who have been placed on 30 to 90 cay suspensions. CHRM hosted a meeting so that the Dept of Ed could present it's rationale for locating the center there. It turns out that the only three ALC's for District 17 are all in Crown Heights North.
Keep up the good work, CHRM!
If you want to attend hearings on the DHS homeless shelter proposal, two are scheduled for next week. You can find out more at:
www.revitalizecrownheights.org.

homeowner · September 2008

I was aware of it. My post was more in response to the question about the value of the house. Its a completely different issue as to whether it is right for these kinds of programs to move into what were intended to be single family homes for the wealthy. Personally, I don't think that there is anything wrong OMRDD housing in relation to other social services, but I do think that the neighborhood is completely oversaturated with these kinds of hidden social service providers generally, and there should be some effort to place this kind of supportive housing throughout the city in a variety of neighborhoods and dwellings.

house on Prospect Place sold to non-profit

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