Bicyclist hit by school bus - 8th and President
Comments
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I hear you 8thandprez.. however, I still think your photo perpetuates a problem with our culture.
Did you know that the "single largest increase in expenditures for low income household over the past 20 years was for audio and visual entertainment equipment" - The American.
The problem is this notion of "pictures or it didn't happen".. and furthermore, that a damn picture or visual in the news proves anything (See the visually enhanced Beijing Olympics opening ceremonies or the term "airbrush").
Prez, why does whether he died or not matter? Why is that the determining factor of whether or not to leave up the picture? What if he was crippled or deformed? What then?
The fact is a lot of terrible things happen everyday and nobody is snapping photos.. guess what.. it still happens.
I just don't see how a blood stain beneath the back tire of a bus contributes to the discussion on bikes and bike safety other than to sensationalize a topic which, in an ideal world, would need no sensation. I think it is over the top, insensitive, and disrespectful to the family of the victim (who could have likely identified the victim based on the pictured bike and the noted time of the accident). -
I saw the original picture and I would like to back the OP in saying that it showed restraint. It showed the accident scene, but the victim was nowhere to be seen.
That picture was in no way or means out of bounds, prurient or disrespectful.
Unlike say, an avatar featuring wanton fruit licking (or is that a tuber?) -
I was hungry... and that's a yam if you must know.
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I agree. Most of the news sources I have seen posting a photo of the accident also show both the bike and the blood stain, but from a different angle. Like I said, I'm glad I saw it. If that means I've been brainwashed to need to see a photo of something to make it newsworthy then I guess that's what it means - although I think one could also argue that some people just respond more seriously to visual stimulation.
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Just giving 8thandprez a hug! In my opinion no harn done posting the picture when you did the original eye witness report and sensitive to have removed it as the tragedy of the story became clear.
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Yeah... maybe you guys are right....
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im definitely going to be more cognizant of traffic now that i've seen this pic. I always HAVE been a visual learner.
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Boogie Nights, I agree (avatar licks tubar being more offensive than the accident scene shot)
I am glad it was posted: being a visual person.... I think people should be aware of the dangers of cycling in the city.
Anyway, it was a stark contrast to the scene the next street over (Muppets Xmas movie being shot, all wreaths and strung lights....)
not to mention the freaken 30 movie trucks on the streets making it even MORE dangerous to step off the curb to see oncoming traffic.....
Ah well, safety to all.
From the Daily News article, we have lost an exceptional neighbor....
may he rest in peace. -
Yeah what was up with all the movie trucks. They were over the actual scene of the accident later in the afternoon, correct? Otherwise I put the flowers on the wrong corner. It was hard to tell. . . eek.
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Boogie Nights, I agree (avatar licks tubar being more offensive than the accident scene shot)
Are you freaking kidding me? A curly haired dude sticking his lounge toward a vegetable versus the fresh blood stains of a downed cyclists...
You people need to check yourself. Start by examining your repressed sexuality as it may have been eclipsed by your thick skinned attitude toward blood and (accidental) violence. -
I'm cool with both photos. Play nice.
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I think the picture Drunken put up and his Avatar say more about HIM than anything else. This is a poster who has proved again and again that he will not "play nice."
If I were moderating this Board I would remove both the picture and the Avatar and Drunken. -
I've always thought of myself as society's mirror... think what you will.
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veets doesn't even HAVE an avatar, I think that says alot right there.
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Veets plays it old school.
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In the midst of all this message bored fury I just want to take a moment...
Take a moment to genuinely mourn the death of a man. Our little debate and back and forth seems a tab bit inconsequential in the light of this fallen cyclist.
My condolences to his family and friends... -
young & modern wrote: veets doesn't even HAVE an avatar, I think that says alot right there.
What does THAT say?
Just curious. -
veets wrote: [quote=young & modern]veets doesn't even HAVE an avatar, I think that says alot right there.
What does THAT say?
Just curious.
Maybe it says that you don't like to offend people
Staying on topic, you know the reason this thread was started, I feel horrible for this poor man and his family. My heart goes out to them. -
I did not have problem with that the original photo was shown, the person who was hit was not there and it really showed me how aweful the accident was, and we should be really really careful when we ride bikes.
It scared me the way writing would not have. I am terribly sorry for the family, though, it would be really hard for them.
I think the reason that bike lane is not used and people ride on sideway is because cars double park on the bike lane all the time, cross the lane for parking in and out, or cars parked both side at narrow street and big truck is running behind the bike and there is not enough space to pass safely, and so on and so forth. I do not understand what the city officials are thinking, making bike lanes right outside of the parking space. Of course cars will be crossing them! So easy to see!! I personally would much rather use bike lane, but simply, it is often unsafe and disfunctional. -
I didn't have a problem with the photo either. I've seen worse on the nightly news. Seems like Drunken Revival is whining for no reason. The OP showed restraint by not posting the actual victim in the photos. A white bicycle does not give any indication of who someone is. No one was saying pics or it didn't happen. The OP just had a camera on had to record the event. There are famous photos that are more gruesome, this discussion reminds me of the 1958 Pulitzer prize winning photo by William Seaman.
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There are instances in which both drivers and bikers are hot headed and don't follow the rules. In this case the 50 yo guy apparently ran a red light.
ljnd wrote:
Some people really hate bikers, even when they're minding the lights and doing everything they're supposed to do. -
Drunken Revival wrote: I hear you 8thandprez.. however, I still think your photo perpetuates a problem with our culture.
It contributed to the discussion because that is what happened. He wasn't hit and killed in some abstract world and hiding it away behind words only removes us from the awful reality of the situation. We are visual animals and have eyes for a reason. I think the real problem with our society is the constant need to sanitize reality. Do you think we'd have gone gangbusters into Iraq if we actually saw the horrors of war instead of censoring every image? What would your response have been to 9/11 if you had seen the actual scene on the ground (which we most certainly did not, by the way)?
Did you know that the "single largest increase in expenditures for low income household over the past 20 years was for audio and visual entertainment equipment" - The American.
The problem is this notion of "pictures or it didn't happen".. and furthermore, that a damn picture or visual in the news proves anything (See the visually enhanced Beijing Olympics opening ceremonies or the term "airbrush").
Prez, why does whether he died or not matter? Why is that the determining factor of whether or not to leave up the picture? What if he was crippled or deformed? What then?
The fact is a lot of terrible things happen everyday and nobody is snapping photos.. guess what.. it still happens.
I just don't see how a blood stain beneath the back tire of a bus contributes to the discussion on bikes and bike safety other than to sensationalize a topic which, in an ideal world, would need no sensation. I think it is over the top, insensitive, and disrespectful to the family of the victim (who could have likely identified the victim based on the pictured bike and the noted time of the accident).
There is nothing wrong with bearing witness and I see nothing disrespectful about posting the image. You could just as easily say that posting the photo relieved many families of the worry that their family member was the one involved in the accident.
I removed the photo after his death was reported because the photo no longer seemed important to the post. I posted it when it had just happened and there were a lot of unanswered questions about the incident. -
There are too many cars in New York City today. Why does EVERYONE need a car now?
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to get out of NYC!
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This is so horrible. May Mr. Milstein Rest in Peace. We should get in touch with ghostbikes.org, an organization which puts up street memorials for cyclists who have been killed.
http://www.ghostbikes.org/new-york-city -
mylkshayk wrote: This is so horrible. May Mr. Milstein Rest in Peace. We should get in touch with ghostbikes.org, an organization which puts up street memorials for cyclists who have been killed.
Total DIY.
http://www.ghostbikes.org/new-york-city
http://www.ghostbikes.org/howto
I'll help. Anyone into pulling one together? -
I sent the organization an e-mail (I missed the "How To" button when I first went to their website). I think they supply the lock and chain, and I am gathering that they could supply the bike too-?? Unless anyone reading this has a junk bike they could donate? I'm willing to help with cost, painting, etc. I'm waiting to hear back from the organization too; will keep you all posted if I get a reply.
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I think it's a great idea and I'm happy to help. There's a small memorial of flowers and notes attached to the light pole on the corner right now.
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Hi All,
I received a response from a ghostbikes.org representative (pasted below). The memorial for Mr. Milstein is already in the works...
___________________________________________________________
Yes we saw the news and had a meeting last night. We plan to install a ghost bike at that location soon (we have 3 others to install as well, unfortunately).
We will soon be planning our annual memorial ride which will happen on January 4th 2009. We will be stopping at the spot that Jonathan was killed as well as the other 8 cyclists killed this year we know of so far. We hope you can ride with us or meet us at that corner
Thanks for getting in touch, check our website for upcoming events as well as the memorial ride.
Ride Safe
Ellen
NYC Street Memorial Project Volunteer
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