New pug foster mom needs help with separation anxiety issues

stuygal · September 2008

Hi Everyone,

I recently started working with a pug rescue in NYC. I got little Bruno (well not so little... he's a fatty at 28 pounds :P) on Tuesday night. Apparently there was a post on craigslist from a woman who was looking to give away her pug to whoever would take him. A woman in NJ saw the posting and went and got the pug and turned him over to the pug rescue, who allowed me to foster him.

He's a sweet dog, but it's obvious that he hasn't really had a lot of positive human contact. He gets REALLY REALLY excited whenever anyone pets him and he is really really needy. He pretty much loses his mind if he can't physically see me. He barks/cries/wails when I take a shower (even when I let him sit in the bathroom). I'm trying to teach him not to come into the bathroom when I'm in the bathroom and he cries even if I'm just standing there brushing my teeth with the door open. When I leave for work it sounds like he's in there killing himself and I haven't really been able to get much sleep b/c he won't stop crying, barking, whining unless he's on the bed with me.... and when he's on the bed he tends to wake up a lot and jump around or walk on me :P

I think he's a good dog... he just seems no one paid him any attention and he was never taught anything. He doesn't know any basic commands. He has NO idea what a toy is. I think he's pretty much house trained. He did wet (and remove :x ) his belly band yesterday when I was at work, but that was his first day alone so I'm giving him a pass for that. :P

I've been looking up some tips for dealing with separation anxiety- tiring the dog out, giving him distraction toys, not making a big deal out of coming or leaving, leaving treats around the apartment. I walk him for at least 45 minutes in the morning. I would play with him as well, but he doesn't really know how to play.

Does anyone have experience with this? can you offer any tips on helping him with his separation anxiety or ways I can get him to sleep in his own bed at night?

When I came home yesterday he hadn't chewed or destroyed anything... just wet his belly band and laid it by the door for me :roll: So I don't think he's got a "horrible" case, but I do want to help him as much as I can. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

urbancowgirl · September 2008

Do you have a crate? I had the same issues with the first dog that I adopted, and the crate worked wonders (for both the separation anxiety and the potty training). Just put a pillow in the crate with a pillow case that you've slept on, and he'll feel a bit more comfortable. Also, it sometimes helps to drape a blanket over the top of the crate to make it feel more like a shelter. The separation anxiety makes the dog feel just as bad as it makes you feel, and it helps for them to have a 'safe' place to stay. Also, I've never known anyone to actually use those belly bands (but my dogs are large breeds so that may be why). Simply crating him during the day should work for both problems.

As for toys, some dogs just don't have any use for them. I've adopted two dogs and am fostering one and, though they were all abused and without real human contact when I got them, they ALL enjoyed the heck out of rawhide. Some of my favorite memories are of their eyes when I gave them that first piece. It also helps take their minds off the fact that you're leaving.

Oh, and you're absolutely correct to not make a big deal out of your comings and goings. It's hard, but you should just completely ignore him for the few minutes before you leave and after you get home. It really does work. And don't change the tone of your voice. No, "HEY, sparKY!" or whatever because that just gets them more excited/anxious.

Hope this helps. You're doing a great thing!

stuygal · September 2008

Hi UrbanCowgirl... Thanks for your response. I think I might have to try the crate. Did you crate your dog at night as well? I was told by the rescue org that they don't really like when their fosters crate the dogs. It's my first foster so i don't really want to piss them off, but I also want to help the dog... and help myself sleep :-p

Yeah I wasn't too worried about this lack of interest in toys... he's pretty much not interested in anything that isn't human or food (other dogs, cats, etc) but there isn't a dog park close to where I live in Bed Stuy and I need a way to help him expend extra energy. I thought he would be dead tired after our walks since he really wasn't walked in his previous home, but that hasn't really been the case.

I really appreciate your input :-)

urbancowgirl · September 2008

Heya, I didn't crate at night, but I did leave the door to the crate open and, more often than not, when Charlie wasn't allowed on the bed he'd go into his crate to sleep. I personally have nothing bad to say about crate training them. Especially when you're dealing with anxiety issues...it makes them feel a bit calmer inside and you'll have peace of mind when you leave the apartment. This is also weird (and maybe not green or whatever), but I find that leaving a TV or radio on helps, too. That way they don't get excited/bark every time someone else in the building opens a door or walks around upstairs. My dogs prefer the Food Network, ha ha.

anastasia beaverhausen · September 2008

That's weird - I've never heard of a rescue being against crates. Crates are a very safe environment for a dog - it prevents them from destroying your home as well as stops them from hurting themselves. Most dogs (though there are exceptions) perfectly happy to have a crate.

You might also try stuffing one of those Kong toys with cheese and/or peanut butter, freezing it and giving it to him just as you leave. It will occupy him for quite a while and might be just what he needs.

stuygal · September 2008

Yeah I always thought that crates were generally seen as a good thing as well... when used properly. She said they don't crate unless they are house training, but they would MUCH rather use the belly bands than the crate. If he has taken the belly band off today as well then I might have to talk to her about it again.

I leave the TV on. I usually leave it on Animal Planet... but honestly with my fat little pug the Food Network might be a better option.. heh heh...

Re: the kongs... I got him a kong yesterday. He LOVES it. He needs to lose some weight so I was a bit hesitant about the peanut butter... last night I just stuffed it with his dinner and he went to town. I left it out for him to "find" today, and I scattered some food around so he would have a little game to play when I was gone. Tomorrow I think I'll try giving it to him right as I leave. That seems to be what most people suggest. I'm going to pick up another Kong today so we can start working on his completely non-existent fetch skills... gotta ramp up that cardio :-p

opossumqueen · September 2008

Kongs are great but there are other toys that are better to use if you want to stuff them with the dog's food (which is my dog's preferred way to have his meals).

I got a toy shaped like a dumbbell at Target that is perfect for this. It's purple rubber and you can stuff food and treats into the ends and the dogs have to knock it around and chew, etc. to get it out.

anastasia beaverhausen · September 2008

I'm sure there are other options - low fat peanut butter, maybe? I find that freezing it really helped with my freak show of a dog.

You might also try those interactive toys, like a bird house filled with stuffed birds. Oscar had the beehive filled with stuffed bees when he was younger. It occupied him for a bit anyway.

I gave up trying to keep O out of the bathroom with me. I haven't been in there alone in over four years. *sigh*

stuygal · September 2008

Hey OpossumQueen... Was the toy specifically made for feeding or did you just find out it worked by trial and error.

Off topic: are you in public health? i am as well... What kind of job are you looking for? Feel free to PM me :-)

opossumqueen · September 2008

The toy was made for stuffing and my dog loves it. For various reasons this summer he wasn't too interested in eating. BUT, if I put the kibble he's been ignoring in his bowl into this toy, he goes to town. It seems about right for the small/medium sized food pieces. If the dog doesn't love his kibble, you could always throw a piece or two of something that it really loves in and the dog will probably work hard for all of it.

Haha..I just realized my title is back to that (there were msg board issues for a while that took it away). I'm in school for public health now-yay! (Although it is scary to go back to school after several years away.)

chaplin'smom · September 2008

I too second (or third...) the crate. When my dog (see pic) was a puppy he would HOWL/scratch the front door/cry bloody murder when i left him alone and the crate worked WONDERS. He felt secure and safe in there and, according to a lot of vets, they have no real sense of time and therefore have close to no idea how much time has gone by. It also provides them a 'den' like environment which, to this day, my dog tries to replicate.

Also, when leaving, i always use the same phrase (in the same sing songy voice) 'back soon!' and give him a chewy treat to occupy himself with. Now, whenever i say 'back soon!' he gets all excited and goes to his 'treat place' to await his treat. He now actually LOOKS FORWARD to my leaving him.

When I began to train him to be alright without me (either in and/or out of the crate) i started out leaving him alone for 30 seconds... then returning with 'good boy!' then i slowly progressed the time to 5 minutes... then 15... then a half hour... then 2 hours... etc... til he was able to spend a good 8 hours on his own (with wee wee pads, food and water of course.)
It takes a lot of time initially to train them but ultimately its worth it.

A final note- i just recently heard on NPR that there have been studies done that dogs get calmer when they listen to classical music! Really. Instead of the television (which i always feel/fear leaves that weird static/sonic sound) perhaps leave the classical station/npr radio on to calm him. It worked for my dog. It provides company without the commercials :-)

Good luck! You did a wonderful thing... the transition will take time but as you each grow to know each other it'll be terrific. I can promise you

whyfi · September 2008

Most dog issues are from one of two things - an abundance of energy and/or a lack of a clear understanding as to who's in charge.

I think that you're on the right track to addressing the excessive energy part, but it sounds like he's under the impression that he's in charge of you - you need to be more firm with him and set him straight.

You can't let a dog walk all over you - literally or figuratively. Remember, elevation = dominance (not to be confused with aggression - they are not one in the same). Trying to get on the bed is raising physical elevation and therefor rank. Walking on/standing over you is a way of letting you know where he thinks he stands in the relationship with you.

What does this have to do with the separation anxiety? It's like having a shitty boss that thinks they're in charge, when they really aren't. When you show initiative and do something contrary to what the shitty boss would have done, what do they do? Throw an ineffectual hissy-fit. Same, same.

Stop feeling sorry for the rescue, he'll get over his issues faster. Take charge, starting with the walks. He can't be allowed to wander - he has to follow your lead (just as a higher physical elevation = dominance, being in front = dominance). He needs to sleep in his bed, not yours. When he starts whining when you leave the room, you need to tell him to stop, as opposed to feeling sorry for him. I'm not saying that you need to be all Stone Fox stoic, but when was the last time that someone feeling sorry for you did you any good?

Best of luck - you're doing a great thing!

Oh, and yeah, the crate's not a bad idea, but I don't think that it's 100% necessary, either.

daver · September 2008

Yah, nothing is 100% necessary, and obviously different things work for different people and different dogs.

Specifically regarding separation anxiety, I will add my voice to the chorus on the crate recommendation. I have found more often than not that the "safe" environment of the crate during the day dramatically reduces or even eliminates the fear causing the anxiety. As far as putting him in it at night, it is totally not necessary to do so if you don't need to. I would generally just leave the door open, and many dogs would choose to sleep in there. *shrug*

As far as WhyFi's comments about taking charge, if that is necessary (which it is with some dogs) then definitely do it. One technique I've used that is generally _very_ effective is to just simply tie the leash around your waist and go about your normal daily business without regard to the dog. He will quickly figure out that you are the boss, and that he has to pay attention and follow around the leader. Rarely does this technique take more than a day or two to establish your respective place in the "pack."

sweet tea · September 2008

daver wrote: . As far as putting him in it at night, it is totally not necessary to do so if you don't need to.

thank heavens you're here, Tautology Man!

daver · September 2008

sweet tea wrote: [quote=daver]. As far as putting him in it at night, it is totally not necessary to do so if you don't need to.

thank heavens you're here, Tautology Man!

Lol. I suck. Hopefully my complete ineptitude with words hasn't overly interfered with my meaning.

If you know what I mean.

I'm hating on words lately. Or words are hating on me. I haven't decided yet, but I'll just shut up for now.

Or not.

whyfi · September 2008

daver wrote: ...about taking charge, if that is necessary (which it is with some dogs) then definitely do it.

It is necessary to avoid behavioral problems with all but the most mellow dogs out there, and it's beneficial with EVERY dog out there.

In this case, it's beyond the shadow of a doubt that it's necessary; not to acknowledge it is a disservice to the OP and to the dog. It's not that big of a deal - I'm not telling anyone that they need to rule with an iron fist. It's just seeing the signs, realizing that you're not in the ideal position to deal with the problem and then taking action to put yourself in the right position. You're not going to be effective in influencing anyone - man, woman, child, dog, etc. - without first having that individual's respect. StuyGal - if you intend to foster more dogs in the future, it's best to learn these lessons now. You'll be better for it and all of the dogs will be better for it.

daver · September 2008

WhyFi wrote: [quote=daver]...about taking charge, if that is necessary (which it is with some dogs) then definitely do it.

It is necessary to avoid behavioral problems with all but the most mellow dogs out there, and it's beneficial with EVERY dog out there.

In this case, it's beyond the shadow of a doubt that it's necessary; not to acknowledge it is a disservice to the OP and to the dog. It's not that big of a deal - I'm not telling anyone that they need to rule with an iron fist. It's just seeing the signs, realizing that you're not in the ideal position to deal with the problem and then taking action to put yourself in the right position. You're not going to be effective in influencing anyone - man, woman, child, dog, etc. - without first having that individual's respect. StuyGal - if you intend to foster more dogs in the future, it's best to learn these lessons now. You'll be better for it and all of the dogs will be better for it.
What I meant is that many dogs don't come in thinking that they are the boss of the household, therefore there is no need to establish that they aren't, they already know. I didn't mean that it is OK to have them think they are boss. I agree that having a dog thinking that they are the head of the household is an issue that needs to dealt with if you aren't looking for trouble.

But then the vast majority of my experience is with rescue dogs that in general tend to have problems more in the -scared of their own shadow- direction than in the -I am king of the castle- direction. YMMV.

Apologies for not being clear. Words are not my friends lately. Arg.

stuygal · September 2008

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the advice! Last night went pretty well. When I got home from work he hadn't really messed with anything or peed (at least none that I could see or smell). He slept in his own bed last night as well! I walked him from Fulton and Lewis to Atlantic and Underhill to visit a friend so he was a little tired to start with, but he was pretty tenacious… He would fall asleep for an hour or so and then he would wake up and start whining and snorting and I would see his little head popping up again, but I corrected him each time and as the night went on he started to get the hint… When I got up to hit me alarm a few times this morning he, of course, got out of his bed to follow me across the room, but then went directly back to his own bed when I got back into mine with only minimal whining.

I read an article that said pretty much what Chaplin's Mom described about leaving a special treat each time you leave and working with him by leaving and coming back at increasing increments of time, so I was going to start trying that out this weekend. I left him a kong filled with a variety of goodies this morning and I was almost down to the second floor before the howling and scratching started.

I definitely like the leash on the waist trick that daver suggested... I don't know if it's necessary with his dog because he's literally right behind me at all times, but I’ll definitely try it with subsequent fosters.

Re Ceaser Milan... uh I mean WhyFi's comments, while I fully appreciate the importance of being a strong leader, in this particular case I really don't think it's a leader/dominance issue…. Since day 1 he’s had a very submissive energy, he always trails me on walks, he tried to jump on me on the couch once, was corrected and never tried again, he knows which rooms he’s not allowed in now and obeys the imaginary line (though he still fussess about it).

Just to clarify--, I don't feel sorry for him at all... that wasn't the point of this point. I was just trying to get practical suggestions about how to work best with him. Even Ceaser (or whatever Ceaser-esque trainer you’re references) has techniques and tools (specific types of repetition, sounds, special collars, clickers, specific distracting touches) LOL it’s not like you just walk up to the dog with your shoulder back and head up and they all automatically fall into line. :-p I've been watching Ceaser M. for years so I've had a few "lessons" with this school of though but I don't think JUST conveying calm assertive energy is going to fix every problem for every dog... it's definitely a good baseline, but I was looking for more concrete suggestions to supplement.

Thanks everyone!

whyfi · September 2008

StuyGal wrote: ... but I don't think JUST conveying calm assertive energy is going to fix every problem for every dog... it's definitely a good baseline, but I was looking for more concrete suggestions to supplement.

Uh, yeah, but given the difficulties described, I still think it appropriate to suggest a "walk before you run," approach. Glad things are progressing! Best of luck!

New pug foster mom needs help with separation anxiety issues

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