Now we know their names

Here we go:

babel wrote: Unaffordable health care is pretty cruel to everyone.

Republicans are all in favor of affordable health care for everyone. Unfortunately, affordable, quality, timely health care for everyone is an impossibility, and therefore I'm quite opposed to decreasing the quality of health care for everyone across the board to make it "affordable." Health care is unaffordable for some people now because of over regulation and governmental interference, not because there's some Republican conspiracy to keep poor people from having it. Plus, many people simply choose not to purchase health insurance in order to spend there money elsewhere. For those people, it's not a question of affordability, and forcing those people to pay for everyone else's health care is ludicrous.

babel wrote: Never ending war is pretty cruel to the ones that are having bombs dropped on them and to the poor suckers who are being taken advantage of by being sent over seas to defend our "freedom".

Sorry, you're not going to win me over by attempting to engender sympathy for terrorists that would be blowing up themselves and innocents but for our bombs. Drop away. And in case you missed it, our army is made up entirely of volunteers. I think they'd be pretty insulted having you suggest that they were somehow tricked into joining the military, and for you to suggest that our armed forces are made up of dupes or ignorant rubes who didn't realize that they might actually be asked to fight is insulting to them.

babel wrote: It is ignorant to think that Republicans are for small government.

Republicans (by which I mean the people who identify as such) are for small government. Unfortunately, the majority of the politicians in Washington are not.

babel wrote: Taxes pay for civilization, to not pay them is cruel. It is cruel for our tax dollars to pay for the war machine.

Is this like Joe Biden's "Taxes are patriotic"? "to not pay them is cruel." That's a bit of a stretch, methinks. It's not cruel for our taxes to pay for our self-defense, it's self-defense.

babel wrote: I wish we had a Socialist candidate. Kucinich, or someone like him would have been my choice.

Um, you've got Obama, don't worry, he's plenty Socialist.

babel wrote: Before you say a Socialism system would not work in this country all you have to do is look at Europe. For example look how Switzerland changed their health care system to universal. Even though they are a huge capitalistic country with big insurance and drug companies.

See my initial point. If you think the European health care model works, try going over there and trying to get timely care for a non-emergency problem. There's a reason Canadians and Europeans come here when they've got a real medical problem.

Really? there are lots of Europeans and Canadians coming here for medical procedures? i find that hard to beleive! Did you see Sicko?

And, yes, I have friends in Australia and NZ and they tell me about having to wait for non emergency procedures and most of them don't see it as a big deal, they still think their health care systems are head and shoulders above the rest!

Subject: Re: Another Park Slope McCain voter

transplant wrote: I'm voting for McCain and Palin too (well, mostly Palin). I live on 3rd St. between 4th and 5th, no need to hunt me down.

I think there are more of us out there than you think, we just know to keep our opinions to ourselves around Park Slope and NYC in general. Y'all can be pretty intolerant of dissenting viewpoints.

You are so right!! I thought there were no more than 5 McCain/Palin supporters in Park Slope. It seems that I was very wrong. It is almost twice that!

transplant wrote:
[quote=babel]I wish we had a Socialist candidate. Kucinich, or someone like him would have been my choice.

Um, you've got Obama, don't worry, he's plenty Socialist.

babel wrote: Before you say a Socialism system would not work in this country all you have to do is look at Europe. For example look how Switzerland changed their health care system to universal. Even though they are a huge capitalistic country with big insurance and drug companies.

See my initial point. If you think the European health care model works, try going over there and trying to get timely care for a non-emergency problem. There's a reason Canadians and Europeans come here when they've got a real medical problem.

this!

LongTimeSloper wrote: [quote=brooklynpotter][quote=LongTimeSloper]Maybe I shouldn't even bring this up because this is a hot button issue with me, but, Partial birth abortion doesn't even exist? How so?


And Palin as VP just scares me, no way in my mind is she ready to be president and she is just a heartbeat away if McCain is elected.

partial birth abortion is not a medically recognized term.

it's a term for a dilation and extraction, a d&x, a horrible procedure for all involved,one that NOBODY wants to have. but it's a necessary procedure for some women.

Oh, not a medically recognized term, but, it does exist, the procedure does exist no matter what the medical field chooses to call it! Please don't say it doesn't exist, there are plenty of states that will still do an abortion at 6 months gestation, some states possibly more.

it's all nice and easy to throw this around. let me ask you, who are the women getting this procedure? i'm not saying it doesn't exist--although the term, "partial birth abortion" was made up by the christian right to make a truly horrible thing sound even worse than it is--because it does exist.

i want you to tell me which women are getting this procedure and why.

babel wrote: I wish we had a Socialist candidate. Kucinich, or someone like him would have been my choice.

Um, you've got Obama, don't worry, he's plenty Socialist.


Seems that Republicans support socialism when it supports the rich, and oppose it when it helps the poor.

Livetotravel wrote: There are many Repugs living in Park Slope - they started coming here in the get rich Reagan years and proliferated during the hay-days of hedge funds. Now that the perpetrators of great frauds on unsuspecting investors are being investigated by the scores - maybe, just maybe, the Repugs-come-lately will abandon Park Slope for good and return to Staten Island where they belong.

Ha, I love how everything is always somehow a product of some great conspiracy - "the perpetrators of great frauds on unsuspecting investors..." - that's great stuff!

Here's an idea: If you're going to invest in something, be it stocks, or bonds, or a business, or a house - do some research! Be suspicious! There's a reason professional investors, be they brokers or traders or hedge funders or real estate magnates or business owners, get paid well. It's because doing what they do takes lots of training and knowledge and experience and general know how. If anyone could do well at it without putting in the time to do due diligence and research, then we'd all be rich!

if you were lying in a hospital bed, with high blood pressure and a ruptured embryotic sac,,and the fetus inside you was going to die because you're going to die, and you're too sick to labor this fetus or get a c-section because you will bleed out, and your hospital says "sorry! we can't do that in our state because d&x isn't legal"...would you think that was fair? i know, lots of things are unfair, people die all the time without healthcare.

what would you think the woman should do then?

brooklynpotter wrote: [quote=LongTimeSloper][quote=brooklynpotter][quote=LongTimeSloper]Maybe I shouldn't even bring this up because this is a hot button issue with me, but, Partial birth abortion doesn't even exist? How so?


And Palin as VP just scares me, no way in my mind is she ready to be president and she is just a heartbeat away if McCain is elected.

partial birth abortion is not a medically recognized term.

it's a term for a dilation and extraction, a d&x, a horrible procedure for all involved,one that NOBODY wants to have. but it's a necessary procedure for some women.

Oh, not a medically recognized term, but, it does exist, the procedure does exist no matter what the medical field chooses to call it! Please don't say it doesn't exist, there are plenty of states that will still do an abortion at 6 months gestation, some states possibly more.

it's all nice and easy to throw this around. let me ask you, who are the women getting this procedure? i'm not saying it doesn't exist--although the term, "partial birth abortion" was made up by the christian right to make a truly horrible thing sound even worse than it is--because it does exist.

i want you to tell me which women are getting this procedure and why.


Yet, everywhere I google, this term is being used. So, wherever it came from originally, (and I have no idea where it did come from originally), it is a well used term.

i want you to tell me which women are getting this procedure and why.

Hmm, seems I should be asking you that question. But, here's something I just found now on Wikipedia while looking for other information:

According to a 1987 study that included specific data about late abortions (i.e. abortions “at 16 or more weeks' gestation”),[11] women reported that various reasons contributed to their having a late abortion:

* 71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
* 48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
* 33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
* 24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
* 8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
* 8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
* 6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
* 6% Woman didn't know timing is important
* 5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
* 2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
* 11% Other

babel wrote: Yeah just look at all those sick Canadians and Europeans. Have you ever wondered why terrorists are willing to blow themselves and others up? Because they hate our freedom and values?

I'm sorry, is that a rhetorical question? I'm not sure of your point here. Are you saying that terrorists blow themselves and others up because they hate our freedoms and values, and somehow that's ok with you?

babel wrote: Why don't you try to find out why they are so fanatical instead of trying to take a simplistic view. I never think that violence is justified but don't you think they are tired of being picked on?

I don't know what to say to this. If someone is willing to kill themselves in order to take innocent people with them, I could care less why they are doing it. Once you've resorted to murder of innocent people, children, anyone, you're past the point of explaining yourself. And "tired of being picked on"? Really? That makes it ok? The boys at Columbine, et al, we're "picked on." People are picked on everywhere, every day. It sucks, but it's part of life. Deal with it.

metalnyc wrote: [quote=Livetotravel]There are many Repugs living in Park Slope - they started coming here in the get rich Reagan years and proliferated during the hay-days of hedge funds. Now that the perpetrators of great frauds on unsuspecting investors are being investigated by the scores - maybe, just maybe, the Repugs-come-lately will abandon Park Slope for good and return to Staten Island where they belong.

not that I'm originally from Staten Island, i do know plenty of people from there, including family. so why don't you go ahead and explain what that is supposed to mean. should i go back to Queens then? is Queens on par with Staten Island? my mom is originally from Brooklyn and dad from the Bronx, how do they stand in this hierarchy of boroughs? oh wait, that's right my mom is from Brooklyn so she is OK. whew!

why is it that Democrats, more often than not the Liberal sect, love to name call and get truly angry when someone disagrees with them politically? why can't they just have a dicussion?

I don't remember any Democrats screaming "Terrorist" or "kill him" at any McCain rallies....I think those were all YOUR buddies.

brooklynpotter wrote: if you were lying in a hospital bed, with high blood pressure and a ruptured embryotic sac,,and the fetus inside you was going to die because you're going to die, and you're too sick to labor this fetus or get a c-section because you will bleed out, and your hospital says "sorry! we can't do that in our state because d&x isn't legal"...would you think that was fair? i know, lots of things are unfair, people die all the time without healthcare.

what would you think the woman should do then?

And can someone please tell me why anti-abortion laws are written primarily by MEN?

NOBODY is "pro-abortion"! Sometimes it is a necessary evil. Yet privacy is something that we are willing to give away in this country. Why is it my business what another person wants to do with their body? How will it affect me? Not at all.

I would have thought that by the 21st century this country would be more eveolved and we'd be past this discussion, but in truth it will never end.

BrooklynGigCenter wrote: Americans who think like this are the reason why our moral standing in the world is so low. And if you think that a positive moral standing is unimportant, then you're clueless. It affects everything we try to do throughout the world....it affects our world relationships in everything from finance to military options to our response to terrorism and so much more. We are supposed to be the beacon of light in this world, and the last several years of unending war have brought us to where we are today. And you can't tell me with a straight face that the world is better now than it was before Bush took office. And it's not just the terrorists' fault.

No, I agree, a positive moral standing in the world is extremely important, for all the reasons you state. So no, I'm not clueless, thanks.

But I don't think that betraying that which makes America great is worth it, just to "improve our moral standing." I think it's more important to think about who we're trying to impress. Terrorist-enabling dictatorships and thugs in the Middle East? Communist China? Hugo Chavez? Vladamir Putin? I don't think we need to be bending over backwards to impress these kinds of people. Yes, it would be nice if our allies in Europe thought better of us, it would make our job easier, but they can certainly make an effort to meet us halfway.

And "the last several years of unending war"? How is "several years" of war "unending"? I assure you, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will not be unending. The war in Iraq is all but won, and with forces diverted from Iraq able to shift to Afghanistan, the war there will be won soon enough as well.

BrooklynGigCenter wrote: [quote=transplant][quote=BrooklynGigCenter]Seems that Republicans support socialism when it supports the rich, and oppose it when it helps the poor.

Example?

Have you not been watching the news? $700 BILLION BAILOUT FOR BANKS!

BTW, the most socialist state in the union? ALASKA. Taking money from the oil companies and giving it to the citizens of the state.

So, the decision to give a $700 Billion bailout to banks, passed by a Democrat controlled House and Senate, was the fault of Republicans? Not sure how that works.

those procedures were not done for altruistic reasons. they were done to prevent the mother from dying.

i am asking nicely, for you to tell me what you think should be done in the situation i posed above.