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Indian Killer Playground? — Brooklynian

Indian Killer Playground?

duke of flatbush
duke of flatbush
edited November -1 in Prospect Heights
The NYT Article: NYC; Letting The Edifice Fit the Crime documents the rogues, scalawags, scoundrels, hucksters and ne'er-do-wells who have been honored by having public places in New York named after them (e.g.: the Tweed Courthouse).

According to Edwin Burrows, Underhill Avenue has a similarly nefarious origin. Underhill Avenue in Prospect Heights, Brooklyn, is a nod to John Underhill, a hard-drinking, short-tempered man of the 17th century who, Professor Burrows said, 'loved nothing better than slaughtering Indians. Like most Prospect Heightizens, I find John Underhill's hobby to be a bit offensive (not the hard-drinking bit - the Indian slaughtering!).

In addition to Underhill Avenue, presumably the Underhill Playground bears his name as well. It seems to me that while the street name Underhill also connotes a geographic quality, running from the top of Mount Prospect, down the hill to Atlantic Avenue, there is little reason to keep the playground name the same. Since the playground is in the midst of a long-term renovation, why not re-open the gates with a new name and identity “ one not associated with genocide.

A more fitting name might make reference to the old Waterworks plant that stood on the same spot 100 years ago.

What do you think?
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Comments

  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior
    shouldnt have his name than.
  • medusa
    medusa
    Very cool map. But it doesn't extend to my block of Prospect between Flatbush and Carleton. Damn.

    I think the park is named after the street, not after the guy, no? (granted that the street is named after the guy but it's a little different--I recall that there was something in geometry that described this kind of association, does anyone know what I'm talking about?)
  • qtrain
    qtrain
    Since the park was renamed Underhill in 1985, it would seem that the name references the street, rather than the family. For that reason, I think the current name is appropriate.
  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior
    funny thing about the name underhill, everytime i hear it and see the street signs hehe. i think of some role playing game :p with eleves and stuff.
  • captain m
    captain m
    It might not be a great name but is there someone else it could be named after?

    That said, getting the community together to change something, maybe we have bigger fish to fry, like traffic on vanderbuilt or bike lanes?
  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior
    we should have more bike lanes. blah i wish my bike hasnt been stolen cause my brother is a idiot for leaving it outside :(.
  • admiraltsao
    admiraltsao
    Wow, that's a great map -- finally a hint as to why those buildings on Underhill and Prospect at at such a strange angle. Where did you find that map -- are there other images online or did you take that picture yourself?
  • duke of flatbush
    duke of flatbush
    Since the park was renamed Underhill in 1985, it would seem that the name references the street, rather than the family. For that reason, I think the current name is appropriate.
    I think you're right. It was renamed by Koch after the last renovation. But by that logic, why not re-name the street as well? The point is that the name and what it stands for doesn't reflect community values when you stop to think about it - so why not change it? Particularly at this moment in time when the time is right?
    That said, getting the community together to change something, maybe we have bigger fish to fry, like traffic on vanderbuilt or bike lanes?
    There certainly are bigger fish to fry. I'd hate to take any momentum away from those efforts. But I don't think this does. In fact a minor victory may provide momentum for other issues.

    I'm just putting it out there! Anybody got any good ideas, beyond roll play games, for a new name?
  • alafairnadia
    alafairnadia
    AdmiralTsao wrote: Wow, that's a great map -- finally a hint as to why those buildings on Underhill and Prospect at at such a strange angle. Where did you find that map -- are there other images online or did you take that picture yourself?
    wait, I'm confused - how does that map show it? I just thought that building was on crack.
  • carnivore
    carnivore
    Don't give them any ideas, Duke. The way things have been going, it could become Ratner Road. :cry:
  • alafairnadia
    alafairnadia
    Carnivore wrote: Don't give them any ideas, Duke. The way things have been going, it could become Ratner Road. :cry:
    Ooh, me me!! I have an idea!! Nets Avenue
    :!: :idea: :!: :idea:
  • duke of flatbush
    duke of flatbush
    Those buildings (NE corner Underhill and Prospect Place) are indeed on crack! They're oriented toward the Flatbush Turnpike which used to snake through the neighborhood before it was straightened out into the Flatbush Extension. You can see the faint outline of the Turnpike beneath the grid on the map.

    I got the map at the NYPL - Bryant Park Map Room; $5 for a copy. Its full of fun stories.

    Ratner Road! Hah! Probably right, he's bought everyone else off! Why not the road?
  • stacey
    stacey
    The best is when we closed on our house (we live between Bergen and Dean) the title report shows the corner of Bergen and Eagle St. I would love to find a map from around the early 1900's
  • alafairnadia
    alafairnadia
    Duke of Flatbush wrote: Those buildings (NE corner Underhill and Prospect Place) are indeed on crack! They're oriented toward the Flatbush Turnpike which used to snake through the neighborhood before it was straightened out into the Flatbush Extension. You can see the faint outline of the Turnpike beneath the grid on the map.
    ahh, okay. I have no idea how to read historical maps so I'm just all bewildered, like "what's with all the lines? there's no street there!" maybe I'm the one on crack. I do like that one house, though, and am jealous of whoever gets to live in it. I always like things on odd angles. as long as the floor is stable.
  • duke of flatbush
    duke of flatbush
    The best is when we closed on our house (we live between Bergen and Dean) the title report shows the corner of Bergen and Eagle St. I would love to find a map from around the early 1900's
    Well thats an interesting tid-bit. The map is from before the turn of the century. Its not dated, but you can tell based on buildings noted on the map. Did Eagle replace Underhill as the streetname? That would be a cool name for the playground: Eagle Playground... Brooklyn Eagle Playground...
  • moogoogaipan
    moogoogaipan
    armchair_warrior wrote: funny thing about the name underhill, everytime i hear it and see the street signs hehe. i think of some role playing game :p with eleves and stuff.
    I always thought of the Lord of the Rings bit where Frodo goes under the alias of "Mr. Underhill".
  • medusa
    medusa
    You know, you can get a photo of many pieces of property in the city from the 1939-41 era from:

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/taxphotos/home.shtml

    The photos were done by the city for tax assessment purposes.

    I keep thinking about getting one of my apartment building.

    Has anyone out there gotten one of these?
  • devincf
    devincf
    Since no one has a clue who the guy is, I don't see the big deal. If it was Hitler Plaza I might agree.
  • qtrain
    qtrain
    Duke of Flatbush wrote: The point is that the name and what it stands for doesn't reflect community values when you stop to think about it - so why not change it?
    On that point, I think it is more valuable that people be given the opportunity to be reminded that the history of the area (and the country) is tied to slaughter of native people, than to have that history buried for a moment of catharsis. If the name were anything else, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to learn from you what a bastard John Underhill was!
  • devincf
    devincf
    You know, I think you would find that pretty much anyone born 200 years ago wouldn't reflect community values.
  • crowhiller
    crowhiller
    That Underhill guy is foul. That kind of infamy is so last century. How about naming it after some cool or famous or inspirational ( recent?)denzien to go along with our new, bling self-image. Tama Janowitz Park? Marianne Moore? Foxy Brown? S. Vega? She wrote that diner song at Tom's. Biggie? Rev. Al used to live on St Mark's. Freddy's? Anyone have other neighborhood people, past or present, to nominate? I'm gonna call Beneke's office at P.D. and see what they say. I see that park from my desk here. I think it's worth some energy to change the name. There are a few sweet old ladies around here who deserve a park named after them, for starters.
  • axel foley
    axel foley
    crowhiller wrote: S. Vega? She wrote that diner song at Tom's.
    Not to go off topic here, but the Suzanne Vega is NOT about the Tom's in Prospect Heights (though I wish it were). It's about the Tom's near Columbia that served as the facade for the Seinfeld diner. Just because they post the lyrics in the restaurant, doesn't make the dream come true...single tear.
  • teddyballgame
    teddyballgame
    Oh god, get out of my head, Suzanne Vega
  • alafairnadia
    alafairnadia
    amusingly, sitting in Toms a few weeks ago for 'lunch' on a Tuesday (*cough* I was SICK) with a few DH'ers I saw the framed lyrics and was all "oh, thank goodness, proof it's from here" and dismissed them. :cry::cry::cry:
    I hate having to declare myself ignorant.
  • vanilla
    vanilla
    Axel Foley wrote: Not to go off topic here, but the Suzanne Vega is NOT about the Tom's in Prospect Heights (though I wish it were). It's about the Tom's near Columbia that served as the facade for the Seinfeld diner. Just because they post the lyrics in the restaurant, doesn't make the dream come true...single tear.
    are you trying to shatter our ignorant dreams?! :cry:
  • axel foley
    axel foley
    vanilla wrote: [quote=Axel Foley]Not to go off topic here, but the Suzanne Vega is NOT about the Tom's in Prospect Heights (though I wish it were). It's about the Tom's near Columbia that served as the facade for the Seinfeld diner. Just because they post the lyrics in the restaurant, doesn't make the dream come true...single tear.
    are you trying to shatter our ignorant dreams?! :cry:

    And what's more, there's no Santa Claus, and Oswald acted alone. Sorry...
  • smokin joe
    smokin joe
    qtrain wrote:
    On that point, I think it is more valuable that people be given the opportunity to be reminded that the history of the area (and the country) is tied to slaughter of native people, than to have that history buried for a moment of catharsis. If the name were anything else, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to learn from you what a bastard John Underhill was!
    if the point is to remember the atrocities, then why not rename it for the indians instead of the perp? the street and the park. anyone know which indians lived here? or which ones underhill killed? presumably some algonquian tribe, but i don't know which.
  • qtrain
    qtrain
    Smokin' Joe wrote: [quote=qtrain]
    On that point, I think it is more valuable that people be given the opportunity to be reminded that the history of the area (and the country) is tied to slaughter of native people, than to have that history buried for a moment of catharsis. If the name were anything else, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to learn from you what a bastard John Underhill was!
    if the point is to remember the atrocities, then why not rename it for the indians instead of the perp? the street and the park. anyone know which indians lived here? or which ones underhill killed? presumably some algonquian tribe, but i don't know which.
    The point is not to remember the atrocities, but to remember where the park is.
  • captain m
    captain m
    You guys crack me up but seriously, if anyone wants to name the party after Foxy Brown just tell me where to sign.
  • devincf
    devincf
    We should just give parks and streets numbers in order to not offend anyone.
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