Holiday Trees In The Slope

eggcream wrote: Not everyone believes it was a pagan tradition. And even if you do believe that it was a pagan tradition, so what. It's now and has been for a very long time a Christian tradition. Get over it.

True. Some people believe that the Earth was created 6000 years ago, and others are swayed by empirical evidence. It was a Christian tradition in the 1950s. Now it's a universal secular tradition. Get over it. You appropriated it before from the pagans. Now it's been appropriated back.

And there is the hypocrisy. I don't believe anyone here has gone out of their way to insult the beliefs or non-beliefs of anyone else. We were just debating whether or not something is called a Holiday Tree or a Christmas Tree (it's soooo a Christmas Tree).

However, you, Carnivore, who seem to be claiming that it is 'arrogant' for me to assume everyone with a tree is Christian (which I never did say), have no problem with getting on this board and mocking the beliefs of Christians (no matter if you get your quips from Digg or not). I suppose you're entirely right, and all of the Christians are just sticking their heads in the sand while worshiping their cosmic zombie, ignoring all scientific evidence to the contrary. Nope, that's not arrogant at all.

anthonycm wrote: And there is the hypocrisy. I don't believe anyone here has gone out of their way to insult the beliefs or non-beliefs of anyone else. We were just debating whether or not something is called a Holiday Tree or a Christmas Tree (it's soooo a Christmas Tree).

No, everything's fine with you as long as everyone implicitly accepts Jesus as their lord and savior by calling the tree in their home a Christmas tree. Not insulting at all...

It's not a Christmas tree. Accept that you are embracing paganism by bringing the tree into your home!

However, you, Carnivore, who seem to be claiming that it is 'arrogant' for me to say that everyone should call it a Christmas Tree, have no problem with getting on this board and mocking the beliefs of Christians (no matter if you get your quips from Digg or not). I suppose you're entirely right, and all of the Christians are just sticking their heads in the sand, ignoring all scientific evidence to the contrary. Nope, that's not arrogant at all.

I admit I was baiting you with the "cosmic Jewish zombie" thing so I could have an excuse to post that cartoon. If you have a problem with anything I've said though, please point out where I was factually incorrect.

anthonycm wrote: So, if I get a Menorah, and call it a Menorah instead of Holiday Candles, does that make me Jewish? I don't think so. I'm saying that my belief is that it's called a Christmas Tree, whether you're Christian or not. Hey, you and I disagree with that. Big deal. We probably disagree on a few other things, too. However, I did not come on here and purposely insult (or mock, if you think there's a difference) someone else's faith.

A menorah is not a secular tradition practiced widely by non-Jews. A tree in a Christian's home during the holiday season can reasonably be called a Christmas tree. Just because I decorate a tree during the winter solstice does not mean I'm celebrating Christ mass. Get it? Just like lighting a candle during that time doesn't mean you're celebrating Channukah. If you say the traditional prayer while you light the candles on the menorah, then you are celebrating Channukah. Purchasing a menorah isn't enough. Purchasing and decorating a pagan tree is pretty fucking far removed from going to mass on what is celebrated as Christ's birthday (even though it isn't actually his birthday and is only celebrated on that day because of its proximity to the winter solstice, enabling early Christians to co-opt a pagan holiday).

modsquad wrote: I could be wrong, but I don't think there are to many Pagans or Druids out there who are demanding to "take back" the tree other than you Carnivore. If it is not mentioned in the Bible then you are implying it is sacrilegious? Does that mean you believe the Bible is a true and accurate history of Judaism and Christianity? How do you feel about Easter eggs? Sheer Blasphemy, I bet! Just seems like good advertising to me.

Actually, many Christians have argued against the use of Christmas trees on exactly those terms.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm

Personally, I don't really care whether it's "sacrilegious" or blasphemous or what you call what you do. Just don't tell me what to call my tree out of some false sense of ownership of a tradition that wasn't even originally yours.

Carnivore wrote: [quote=eggcream]Not everyone believes it was a pagan tradition. And even if you do believe that it was a pagan tradition, so what. It's now and has been for a very long time a Christian tradition. Get over it.

True. Some people believe that the Earth was created 6000 years ago, and others are swayed by empirical evidence. It was a Christian tradition in the 1950s. Now it's a universal secular tradition. Get over it. You appropriated it before from the pagans. Now it's been appropriated back.

How has it been appropriated back? just because you obviously have issues with anything to do with Christianity doesn't mean anything changes, it's a Christmas tree-again, there is no other holiday around this time that celebrates with a tree except for Christmas, i believe the whole world knows that. and, it has nothing to do with people implicitly accepting Jesus as their Savior by bringing a Christmas tree into their home! man, are you warped!

So, what do you call eggs colored around the time of the Christian holiday Easter? holiday eggs? pretty eggs? I thought they were called Easter eggs, but, hey, obviously I must be wrong.

LongTimeSloper wrote: How has it been appropriated back? just because you obviously have issues with anything to do with Christianity doesn't mean anything changes, it's a Christmas tree-again, there is no other holiday around this time that celebrates with a tree except for Christmas, i believe the whole world knows that.

I don't have "issues" with Christianity other than Christians trying to force it on me and others who don't share their beliefs.
It's not a Christmas tree if the person who has it isn't celebrating Christmas.

What is it with you people? It's not enough that your tree is a Christmas tree? Everyone else's tree has to honor your lord too?

Carnivore wrote: [quote=LongTimeSloper]How has it been appropriated back? just because you obviously have issues with anything to do with Christianity doesn't mean anything changes, it's a Christmas tree-again, there is no other holiday around this time that celebrates with a tree except for Christmas, i believe the whole world knows that.

I don't have "issues" with Christianity other than Christians trying to force it on me and others who don't share their beliefs.
It's not a Christmas tree if the person who has it isn't celebrating Christmas.

What is it with you people? It's not enough that your tree is a Christmas tree? Everyone else's tree has to honor your lord too?

How does calling it a Christmas tree honor my Lord? It is just the proper name for it is all.

And, these secular people who have trees in their home-what holiday are they celebrating? Are you telling me that they aren't opening presents on Christmas? Somehow all these secular people you know who have trees in their home-they are celebrating some other holiday on Dec. 25th?

Carny - wanna come over and pet my pretty pink tree?

[quote=Anastasia Beaverhausen]Carny - wanna come over and pet my pretty pink tree?


Sure! And I'll be happy to call your tree whatever you want me to call it.

Carnivore wrote: [quote=LongTimeSloper]How does calling it a Christmas tree honor my Lord? It is just the proper name for it is all.

It's not the proper name for a tree for someone who isn't celebrating Christmas. And if you don't understand how calling it that honors your lord, you clearly don't understand the etymology of the name of your holiday.

LongTimeSloper wrote: And, these secular people who have trees in their home-what holiday are they celebrating? Are you telling me that they aren't opening presents on Christmas? Somehow all these secular people you know who have trees in their home-they are celebrating some other holiday on Dec. 25th?

Secular people are enjoying the pagan traditions of the tree and presents just like Christians are. I am no more celebrating Christmas by having a tree than you are celebrating the traditional pagan holiday of the winter solstice.

LongTimeSloper wrote: BTW, and this isn't just a comment about this board. But, I love how in general it is ok for someone to openly bash Christianity on a message board, but, if someone was making comments about any other major religion such as Carnivore here has, the subject would be shut down in 2 seconds.

No one has bashed Christianity. Please- you have total hegemony in this country. No one can run for President without paying lip service to your god. Every morning, children are forced to say that our nation is under your god while pledging allegiance, and it even says "In God We Trust" on our fucking money. But someone doesn't want to celebrate your holiday while doing some of the fun seasonal stuff like having a tree and exchanging presents and you get your panties in a twist.

WTH is your issue? No one has said they have to celebrate MY holiday or accept jesus as their Lord-all anyone here is saying si that it si called a Christmas tree-plain and simple.

and, no bashing? OK, how about insulting? Saying jewish zombie is not bashing or supposed to incite people in some way? Give me a break!

LongTimeSloper wrote: WTH is your issue? No one has said they have to celebrate MY holiday or accept jesus as their Lord-all anyone here is saying si that it si called a Christmas tree-plain and simple.

and, no bashing? OK, how about insulting? Saying jewish zombie is not bashing or supposed to incite people in some way? Give me a break!

Calling it a Christmas tree makes the act of having it celebrating your holiday. The tree has nothing to do with Christmas.

As for the zombie thing, it may be wordplay, but it is totally accurate. A zombie is a reanimated corpse.

modsquad wrote: I think your image of Christianity dates to the Inquisition. Other then slamming the door on some Jehovah's Witness "forcing" his religion on you, what constitutes Christians forcing their beliefs on you? Do you complain about the Mitzvah Tanks, how about protesting the stoning of 13 year old girls for being raped and you worry about a tree decorated with lights as some sort of infringement. How thin skinned are you? Or just prejudice.

The Inquisition certainly colors my image of Christianity, just as the Crusades colors it in the Middle East.

Are there worse religious injustices out there? Of course, but in this thread everyone jumped all over the OP because s/he dared to call the tree s/he wanted to buy a "holiday tree." So that's what we were talking about. Feel free to start another thread about mitzvah tanks or whatever.

Carnivore wrote: [quote=LongTimeSloper]WTH is your issue? No one has said they have to celebrate MY holiday or accept jesus as their Lord-all anyone here is saying si that it si called a Christmas tree-plain and simple.

and, no bashing? OK, how about insulting? Saying jewish zombie is not bashing or supposed to incite people in some way? Give me a break!

Calling it a Christmas tree makes the act of having it celebrating your holiday. The tree has nothing to do with Christmas.

As for the zombie thing, it may be wordplay, but it is totally accurate. A zombie is a reanimated corpse.

It is only totally accurate in your mind. You know darn well that to a lot of other people that is an insulting comment and THAT is why it was used!

Carnivore wrote: What is it with you people? It's not enough that your tree is a Christmas tree? Everyone else's tree has to honor your lord too?

Yes, everyone should honor my lord. Question is: Who can guess what lord I honor? :twisted: