Lonelyville?
Comments
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vidro3, if i’m in manhattan and have to wait an hour or so for something, i might go to a near by restaurant and eat a burger. or if I‘m coming back from somewhere in jersey and get hungry, sure i might stop on the road and find a restaurant where i can eat. but i would not walk 2 or 3 blocks from my house to buy something i could easily make at home for cheaper
i understand why people might go to local restaurants once in a while. but to watch all kinds of video stores, book stores, comic and toy store, sporting good stores, card stores, printing centers etc, all start go out of business and be replaced by a restaurant or real estate, and then have so many people new to the neighborhood say that’s a good thing - i don’t understand that.
around here i eat in terrace bagel’s café every so often cause i can‘t make as good bagels at home, and i eat at fast food pizzerias or chinese restaurants. occasionally when i’m with groups of people i eat in slightly more expensive restaurants like circles. but i don’t eat at a restaurant every single day. most people new to this area seem to. i do cook at home a lot more than i go to restaurants. i would like more variety on my local shopping avenues than just restaurants and real estates. -
vidro3, if i’m in manhattan and have to wait an hour or so for something, i might go to a near by restaurant and eat a burger. or if I‘m coming back from somewhere in jersey and get hungry, sure i might stop on the road and find a restaurant where i can eat. but i would not walk 2 or 3 blocks from my house to buy something i could easily make at home for cheaper
i understand why people might go to local restaurants once in a while. but to watch all kinds of video stores, book stores, comic and toy store, sporting good stores, card stores, printing centers etc, all start go out of business and be replaced by a restaurant or real estate, and then have so many people new to the neighborhood say that’s a good thing - i don’t understand that.
around here i eat in terrace bagel’s café every so often cause i can‘t make as good bagels at home, and i eat at fast food pizzerias or chinese restaurants. occasionally when i’m with groups of people i eat in slightly more expensive restaurants like circles. but i don’t eat at a restaurant every single day. most people new to this area seem to. i do cook at home a lot more than i go to restaurants. i would like more variety on my local shopping avenues than just restaurants and real estates. -
YankeeFan wrote: most people new to this area seem to. i do cook at home a lot more than i go to restaurants. i would like more variety on my local shopping avenues than just restaurants and real estates.
Let's not turn Windsor Terrace into a battle of who was here longer. I have found a lot of resentment by the old timers that new people are moving here. Such as anger that some of the mothers work and have caregivers (that is what happens when you buy a house today and are middle class: both parents have to work usually). But the problem with SOME old timers, is that it is your neighbors who ARE SELLING to the new timers. So instead of becoming like Park Slope where the newcomers take over, I agree....it is good to have variety and right now I think there is still variety. But the problem is how many people support the local stores? Who really goes to Babbos books instead of Barnes and Noble in the slope? There is a great toy store on Church Avenue but most people (me including) end up running to Little Things. We seem to have a plethora of pet food stores, a great shoe repair guy and nice liquor and wine stores; lots of good thai food. The newcomers like coffee shops and it seems there is room to keep them happy too. -
YankeeFan wrote: most people new to this area seem to. i do cook at home a lot more than i go to restaurants. i would like more variety on my local shopping avenues than just restaurants and real estates.
Let's not turn Windsor Terrace into a battle of who was here longer. I have found a lot of resentment by the old timers that new people are moving here. Such as anger that some of the mothers work and have caregivers (that is what happens when you buy a house today and are middle class: both parents have to work usually). But the problem with SOME old timers, is that it is your neighbors who ARE SELLING to the new timers. So instead of becoming like Park Slope where the newcomers take over, I agree....it is good to have variety and right now I think there is still variety. But the problem is how many people support the local stores? Who really goes to Babbos books instead of Barnes and Noble in the slope? There is a great toy store on Church Avenue but most people (me including) end up running to Little Things. We seem to have a plethora of pet food stores, a great shoe repair guy and nice liquor and wine stores; lots of good thai food. The newcomers like coffee shops and it seems there is room to keep them happy too. -
YankeeFan wrote: vidro3, if i’m in manhattan and have to wait an hour or so for something, i might go to a near by restaurant and eat a burger. or if I‘m coming back from somewhere in jersey and get hungry, sure i might stop on the road and find a restaurant where i can eat. but i would not walk 2 or 3 blocks from my house to buy something i could easily make at home for cheaper
I agree with you. If I am home, I will simply just cook. When I go out to eat, it rarely is in the neighborhood. -
YankeeFan wrote: vidro3, if i’m in manhattan and have to wait an hour or so for something, i might go to a near by restaurant and eat a burger. or if I‘m coming back from somewhere in jersey and get hungry, sure i might stop on the road and find a restaurant where i can eat. but i would not walk 2 or 3 blocks from my house to buy something i could easily make at home for cheaper
I agree with you. If I am home, I will simply just cook. When I go out to eat, it rarely is in the neighborhood. -
well. mothers work but they didn't have nannies, the grandmother took care of the kids of they went to daycare. nannies are for those lovely hipster turned parents who have no new yawk flavah.
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yoda wrote: well. mothers work but they didn't have nannies, the grandmother took care of the kids of they went to daycare. nannies are for those lovely hipster turned parents who have no new yawk flavah.
Actually.....as a mother who has a part time nanny and two kids.....I can tell you it is cheaper to hire someone then it is to plop two kids in day care all day. And one set of grandparents live 400 miles away and the other on another continent. Many of my friends parents now want to enjoy their old age and do NOT want to watch grand-kids all day. Go figure. So.....before you judge the new people to the hood, maybe you could spend a couple minutes talking to them? Times have changed....not always for the better. -
wtgirl, your right about 1 thing. although 9th ave doesn’t have the same kind of variety it use to, it still does have more than i’m giving it credit for. i’m glad we still have the card store. 2001 and george’s are both great barber shops. i’m glad the woman from all for paws opened that new pet store (although i must admit i have not been supporting it much. lately i’ve been getting all my pet food from sean casey animal rescue. not that i have anything against the place on 9th). the new book store is a real nice place. the locksmith is good to have. it’s great that roman’s shoe repair is still going.
but how many of these places really seem like their going to last? and how many will be taken over by more restaurants and real estates? you say you’ve seen resentment from old timers and your probably right. but have any of them ever done anything to you? if you want to call it a “battle” then the new people are clearly winning. they’re having their way with changing everything, the rapid changes just keep on coming -
YankeeFan wrote: but how many of these places really seem like their going to last? and how many will be taken over by more restaurants and real estates? you say you’ve seen resentment from old timers and your probably right. but have any of them ever done anything to you? if you want to call it a “battle” then the new people are clearly winning. they’re having their way with changing everything, the rapid changes just keep on coming
I am a relative new-comer and I bring my shoes to Romans, I shop at United, (I hate DUB pies), I love the watch guy at the card store, it is a friendly post office, I like that there isn't a real estate agent on every block. Is it the new people winning or is it just real estate prices? (And who owns that property that raises the rent on businesses that have been here for years)? Who can possibly open up on that strip now except a restaurant with another branch doing well in another neighborhood? Take Fort Hamilton Parkway for instance....the rents are so high that no local neighborhood people can really afford to open a business there so they great spaces sit empty.
When I moved here...I was met with glares. It has taken me three years to get my neighbor not to resent me (meanwhile we are struggling to pay the mortgage too....it is just our mortgage is higher because we bought later). I have never felt so unwelcome in my life moving to a neighborhood. I like it here now....but I see it is not a community wanting outsiders. -
you can hardly blame them, look what happened to Park Slope.
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I have to admit, the whole nanny thing does disgust me to a degree. When I was growing up, that phenomenon used to be limited to the extremely gentrified north side of the Slope (e.g. Carroll St., etc.), and me and the kids I grew up with always thought it was crazy. Those families were like aliens to us. We were all raised by our own mothers at least until we were old enough to go to school on our own.
Nowadays however, if you see a non-white woman pushing a carriage anywhere in Park Slope, even on 15st, you are almost guaranteed to find a blond-haired, blue-eyed, little WASP in the stroller. I find it to be a disgusting exhibit of classism and usually a sign of selfishness on the part of the parents, who don't want to compromise their career in order to raise their children. Sorry, but what could be more important than raising your own kids? (at least in their formative years)
However I do sympathize to a degree with cases like yours, WTGirl--in 2008 NYC, in some cases, two working parents may be a necessity. -
Hey Obamanut you are of course entitled to your opinion but I think you are being overly judgmental.
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I am amazed at the number of families who hire a nanny. I had to return to work when my daughter was 3 months old because I did not have money to pay my rent, not to pay a mortgage on a million dollar house. I had to use daycare because it was much less expensive. If a nanny is cheaper.... how little are these women being paid?
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Obamanut wrote:
Before I had kids, I felt the same way...grossed out by what I thought was rich people hiring people of color to raise their kids. And then I had two kids and I couldn't afford day care for two at once. We couldn't afford the mortgage on just my husband's salary (we have a modest home...not a million dollar brownstone) and I also like what I do for a living (GUILT..how dare I like my work). I work part time and have a part time caregiver (I hate the word nanny) and I pay her well ($20/hour). But Obamanut, were you a stay at home mother? Because for some of us, we also love our work and can find a way to work part time and also take care of the kids (with help). We love the woman who helps with the kids. She is a wonderful person and I feel so lucky to know her and even luckier that she watches my kids. So that is what I mean by judging without getting to the know the people and their stories. We may look different but many of our stories are middle class people trying to get by.
However I do sympathize to a degree with cases like yours, WTGirl--in 2008 NYC, in some cases, two working parents may be a necessity. -
Like I said, I can sympathize in some cases--in fact, I have some very cool and down to earth female acquaintances, that I respect a lot, who happen to use babysitters/nannies.. so I realize it's not limited to that "North Slope space cadet" type of person we used to laugh at when I was a kid.
Just a thought though--I'm willing to bet that nobody on their deathbed thinks "I regret not devoting more time to my career." -
There are always choices that are necessary in life. Sure I doubt that very few if any people on their death bed will say I wish I spent more time on my career than I did with my family. However not everyone is cut out to be a great parent and maybe a nanny is actually better in some cases. The standard rules of 50 years ago no longer apply. The man does not go out and make a living while the woman stays home and raises the kids and keeps the house. Sure people still do that and there is nothing wrong with it but it is a choice and not the rule. Who decides which parent gets to have a career and which must stay home and raise the family? Sometimes this leads to trouble as a family can be split up by a divorce when a parent at home is unfulfilled. Maybe two parents with a career and a full time nanny is ultimately the best thing for some people and their families. Just as all people are unique individuals so are families. Everyone has different priorities. Basically all I'm saying is do what is best for you and yours and stop judging others if they don't do things the same way you choose to.
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arock75 wrote: The standard rules of 50 years ago no longer apply. The man does not go out and make a living while the woman stays home and raises the kids and keeps the house. Sure people still do that and there is nothing wrong with it but it is a choice and not the rule. Who decides which parent gets to have a career and which must stay home and raise the family? Sometimes this leads to trouble as a family can be split up by a divorce when a parent at home is unfulfilled. Maybe two parents with a career and a full time nanny is ultimately the best thing for some people and their families. Just as all people are unique individuals so are families. Everyone has different priorities. Basically all I'm saying is do what is best for you and yours and stop judging others if they don't do things the same way you choose to.
That's exactly what I'm talking about, the refusal of some parents to compromise their own way of life when they have kids. I guess that makes me "old fashioned," but what you're saying just reaffirms my belief that many parents today were spoiled as children, and as a result are still immature themselves. Thus, the current crop of 'Nuevo-Brooklyn working parent' cannot wrap their minds around the fact that having children involves--dare I say it--putting the needs of another human being ahead of your own?!?
If people are unable to adjust their "priorities" for a few years in order to take care of their own children, then maybe they should be reconsidering their decision to become parents in the first place. When the day comes for me to have kids, I fully expect that my lifestyle stands to undergo drastic changes, and not all of them will be pleasant. But then again, I grew up watching my parents and grandparents make sacrifices for me.
Not to mention, if my wife were to resent me for impregnating her, and thereby forcing her to live such a dreaded 'unfulfilling' existence while caring for our child for a few years, then all that tells me is that, like the old knight told the villain in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, "You chose poorly." -
Obamanut wrote:
I believe the knight in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade said "He Chose Poorly"
That's exactly what I'm talking about, the refusal of some parents to compromise their own way of life when they have kids. I guess that makes me "old fashioned," but what you're saying just reaffirms my belief that many parents today were spoiled as children, and as a result are still immature themselves. Thus, the current crop of 'Nuevo-Brooklyn working parent' cannot wrap their minds around the fact that having children involves--dare I say it--putting the needs of another human being ahead of your own?!?
If people are unable to adjust their "priorities" for a few years in order to take care of their own children, then maybe they should be reconsidering their decision to become parents in the first place. When the day comes for me to have kids, I fully expect that my lifestyle stands to undergo drastic changes, and not all of them will be pleasant. But then again, I grew up watching my parents and grandparents make sacrifices for me.
Not to mention, if my wife were to resent me for impregnating her, and thereby forcing her to live such a dreaded 'unfulfilling' existence while caring for our child for a few years, then all that tells me is that, like the old knight told the villain in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, "You chose poorly."
Anyway, I don't think you took what I had to say as I meant it or just disregarded it. I think there are very few people that become parents that don't make sacrifices or have to make major adjustments in their lifestyle. Sure there are some selfish people that become parents and will not give their children the proper attention and parenting they deserve and my point is that maybe instead of trying to force things it may just be better for the kids to be raised by someone else. In most cases I think when both parents choose to continue their careers when having kids they are trying to provide and manage raising their children simultaneously. Living in New York City is expensive enough and then adding children to that as well makes it even more difficult. Most people when raising their kids want to provide their children with things they did not have growing up and this is a very normal emotion. I think you take it to far when you say that a woman would resent her spouse for impregnating her. All I am saying is that women have the right to have a career and the responsibility for raising children does not automatically fall on them. The responsibility falls on both parents, the man is not simply the provider and the one with the career. To me you sound bitter and resentful. By your old-fashioned example it seems that the father would not have much to do with child-rearing and that is not fair to children either. A balance in my opinion is optimal. But again this does not work for everyone and there is a wide variety of lifestyles and parenting and career choices that many people will make. It is not for you to judge, my point still being that you need to open your mind. -
Obamanut wrote: f people are unable to adjust their "priorities" for a few years in order to take care of their own children, then maybe they should be reconsidering their decision to become parents in the first place. When the day comes for me to have kids, I fully expect that my lifestyle stands to undergo drastic changes, and not all of them will be pleasant. But then again, I grew up watching my parents and grandparents make sacrifices for me.
When that day comes that you have kids....unless you are in banking or making lots of money...you will see that raising kids is a lot more complicated then you thought it was. For me, I work to help pay the mortgage but we need money to give my kids what PUBLIC school can no longer provide: gym and music. So if you want your child to have any athletic skills....well, you have to pay for it. If you want your child to play an instrument....you have to pay for it. The schools don't offer much anymore and mortgages are high and raises are low. We can't afford private school so that is not an option. So 1. my kids come first. 2. I made sacrifices with my career 3. we have a nanny/caregiver and she has really been a wonderful influence 4. I think our kids are doing great and I have no regrets -
Obamanut wrote: Nowadays however, if you see a non-white woman pushing a carriage anywhere in Park Slope, even on 15st, you are almost guaranteed to find a blond-haired, blue-eyed, little WASP in the stroller.
Ha! To me, that is the final sign that gentrification is complete. First you get a coffee shop, then a Village Voice box, then black women pushing white babies. Gentrification 101. -
wtgirl, first you told me that your glad venus video went out of business and got replaced by a trendy café. then you told me that you don’t like seeing old stores go out of business and get taken over.
you say what stores go out of business and stay around does not reflect the residents choice, it only reflects what business can afford to stay around. but just stop and think about that. why can all restaurants afford to stay around? why can’t video stores? because of who the new people are giving business to
when you say the problem is “how many people really support the local business? how many windsor terrace residents really go to babbos books instead of barnes and nobles” you should be saying “new people”. i assure you that when i was growing up here everyone shopped locally for what was available in the area. nobody lived in windsor terrace to be close to park slope shopping.
as for you feeling resentment from old timers i would just remind you the new comers clearly out number the old timers these days. by a wide margin. so if the minority resents the majority, whats the big deal to you? -
arock75 wrote: [quote=Obamanut]
I am not a judge sitting on a bench who's taken an oath of impartiality. I have no personal power over these people. That means I have the right to judge whoever I want in my own personal affairs.
It is not for you to judge, my point still being that you need to open your mind.
You keep telling me to 'open my mind.' This whole nanny phenomenon is limited to only a few parts of Brooklyn, and most of Manhattan. So what you're essentially telling me is that I need to 'open my mind' to the whole perverse 'Park Slope,' 'Carroll Gardens,' 'West Village' lifestyle. To me, people who subscribe to that lifestyle and way of thinking have about as much credibility as a late night infomercial. Sorry. -
YankeeFan wrote: wtgirl, first you told me that your glad venus video went out of business and got replaced by a trendy café. then you told me that you don’t like seeing old stores go out of business and get taken over.
Actually what I said was:Most people don't go to Video stores anymore and that is why Netflix and on Demand is so popular. And the great thing about a coffee shop is that it is unobtrusive and you don't have to go there.
I am just saying, I agree with supporting local businesses whether it is Roman's, United Meat OR Crossroads. The neighborhood is changing for good and for bad so no point lamenting over the days when everyone on a block was related. -
Have fun on your high horse Obamanut I can see you have it all figured out before having any kids.
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Obamanut wrote: This whole nanny phenomenon is limited to only a few parts of Brooklyn, and most of Manhattan. So what you're essentially telling me is that I need to 'open my mind' to the whole perverse 'Park Slope,' 'Carroll Gardens,' 'West Village' lifestyle. To me, people who subscribe to that lifestyle and way of thinking have about as much credibility as a late night infomercial. Sorry.
My question is what is so great about daycare? Is it a badge of honor that that is your childcare choice? It is one provider with 5-6 kids and everyone on the same nap schedule, food schedule--kids get sick A LOT. I am not saying there is nothing wrong with the nanny option....I'm saying there is NO PERFECT parenting solution today and especially now with the economy getting bad. I guess we could go back the 1960s when mothers were home alone all day and popping Valium? I think we all need to figure out what works as a society and then as an individual and stop the bickering over who is the better parent or who has the better solution.
Between this board and KWTNeighbors this weekend, I am really getting annoyed at the bitterness of some old timers pointing fingers as to how things ought to be done. -
I agree about daycare, it is helpful but by no means a perfect solution. We don't all need to figure out what works as a society because Obamanut has all the answers. Parents should all consent Obamanut and everything will be great. Basically from the Obamanut plan the father should go out and bring home the proverbial bacon while the mother runs the household and does all of the child rearing.
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WTGirl wrote:
Who cares? Like YankeeFan said, you're winning--within 5-7 years Windsor Terrace will be exactly like Park Slope, full of nothing but West Indian nannies pushing around little blond haired, blue eyed toddlers, so what does it matter what the "old timers" think? They're irrelevant.
Between this board and KWTNeighbors this weekend, I am really getting annoyed at the bitterness of some old timers pointing fingers as to how things ought to be done.
Despite the aberrational failure of "Lonelyville," pretty soon Windsor Terrace will become another echo chamber for the Park Slope lifestyle, and once every last native sells and moves down South or to Jersey, the newcomers will be able to go about their business unquestioned by any more pesky old timers.
Just picture it--Rows upon rows of Audi station wagons. Stroller parking. Union Market opens a WT annex. The PS 154 schoolyard on Sundays becomes host to "The Windsor Flea." Just close your eyes and dream, it ain't far away. -
Funny how your name on this site is Obamanut and Obama stands for change yet you seem to be extremely opposed to change in this neighborhood. The people that make up the neighborhood and community of Park Slope have their faults just like anywhere else but it is a diverse and vibrant community that is mostly desirable and striving toward something better. Stereotyping the people and their children and what they do to raise their kids is ignorant and definitely not helpful to anyone. If you are so disgusted as to what you envision Windsor Terrace becoming then move to New Jersey like you suggest. If you would like I can make some recommendations on places to go.
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Obamanut wrote:
But why waste the time judging other people's child care choices or work choices? That is what I don't get. I would just like to say that some of the West Indian woman I have met these past few years in the playground are really lovely woman, some have become friends, and many are much more friendly than the angry grandparents watching the kids, puffing their cigarettes and glaring at anyone who is not doing things the way they did "back in their day." Yes, there is the annoying bug-a-boo element, but I just ignore it. Who cares. Life is short. If I had extra cash, I wouldn't have wasted it there (although they do drive smoothly). But whatever, to each his own.
Who cares? Like YankeeFan said, you're winning--within 5-7 years Windsor Terrace will be exactly like Park Slope, full of nothing but West Indian nannies pushing around little blond haired, blue eyed toddlers, so what does it matter what the "old timers" think? They're irrelevant.
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