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Why don't local business owners shovel their sidewalks? — Brooklynian

Why don't local business owners shovel their sidewalks?

nykittyny
edited November -1 in Park Slope

Subject: Why don't local business owners shovel their sidewalks?

Don't get me wrong, I far prefer living in Brooklyn to my old days in Manhattan, but you've got to hand it to Manhattan when it comes to snow removal - the businesses there take care of it.

I realize that today is slushy due to the rain carrying the snow around, but I am saying that this is a constant problem. Yesterday morning walking around 5th Ave, many storefronts were covered with snow and ice, without even salt down to prevent slipping. The businesses are open, so why cant they do something about the snow? Isn't there a law that states they must remove it? Why isn't it enforced? Seems like a great revenue stream for the City to ticket these businesses. Aren't the business owners afraid of a lawsuit when somebody trips and breaks a limb on their sidewalk?
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Comments

  • The law gives you 24 hr. to clear the sidewalk from when the storm ends. Has the storm officially ended yet?
  • modsquad is correct. however, I walked on 5th avenue on saturday and most of the store fronts cleared the snow. I walked from 9st down to 1st.
  • There were a number of stores on 5th Ave yesterday that had not cleared the snow and ice. I guess the storm wasn't officially over, so maybe that lets them off the hook. Jennifer Convertibles was one of the biggest culprits, as they occupy quite a large storefront, and the snow had turned into a solid sheet of ice.

    I just wonder who's side the law would be on if a person got hurt. I knew a girl who sued a Manhattan office building when she broke her leg on ice, and she won her suit.
  • It would be good business to clear the snow of course. Barring that without a specific law being broken it would be hard to prove blatant wrong doing. It's not that you couldn't collect damages, insurance cos. will not go to trial even if they are protected by the law. They know it's cheaper to settle. Even if you trip a dry sidewalk you should sue. Some lawyer will get you something for nothing.
  • I was walking up 5th Street from 5th to 8th Avenue during the storm Friday early afternoon, and Methodist Hospital (I assume) had these little half-golf-cart sized mini-snow plows out and zipping up and down around the entire block, clearing a path right through the snow and slush. I don't think they even own every single building on all sides of that block (5th-6th Streets from 7th to 8th Avenues) but was impressed that they were right out there clearing it all away. Good community relations.
  • modsquad wrote: The law gives you 24 hr. to clear the sidewalk from when the storm ends. Has the storm officially ended yet?
    I think the city rule is actually FOUR hours after snowfall ends.
    old NYT article about it, more detail

    As to who can say when this storm ends and the next begins....
    (/shrug)
    but I was out there pushing slush around and making a canal to the gutter for all that ice water this morning and it totally pisses me off when commercial places don't do their part.
  • The city doesn't even bother to shovel in front of the schools and playgrounds. Of course, that wouldn't necessarily stop them from ticketing others.
  • From the Administrative Code NYC. Yes, 4 hours appears to be the law these days but I will swear the snow stopped falling one minute after 9 pm.
    § 16–123 Removal of snow, ice and dirt from sidewalks; property owners' duties. a. Every owner, lessee, tenant, occupant, or other person, having charge of any building or lot of ground in the city, abutting upon any street where the sidewalk is paved, shall, within four hours after the snow ceases to fall, or after the deposit of any dirt or other material upon such sidewalk, remove the snow or ice, dirt, or other material from the sidewalk and gutter, the time between nine post meridian and seven ante meridian not being included in the above period of four hours. Such removal shall be made before the removal of snow or ice from the roadway by the commissioner or subject to the regulations of such commissioner. In the boroughs of Queens and Staten Island, any owner, lessee, tenant or occupant or other person who has charge of any ground abutting upon any paved street or public place, for a linear distance of five hundred feet or more, shall be considered to have complied with this section, if such person shall have begun to remove the snow or ice from the sidewalk and gutter before the expiration of such four hours and shall continue and complete such removal within a reasonable time.
  • Before you ask. NYC Code:

    § 16–113 Removal of night soil and offal. The department is hereby charged with the duty of causing the removal of dead animals, night soil and offal from the thickly populated districts daily, and as often as may be necessary elsewhere, and of keeping the city clean from all matter of nuisance of a similar kind.

    Given the nature of some of the neighborhoods people are moving into it might be important to know the city's got your back!
  • Subject: Manhattan is a little better but...

    While walking my dog, I broke my wrist (both bones) on a slippery, unshoveled sidewalk outside a cheapo clothing store at Broadway and Bond Street in 1991.

    There's really no excuse for not shoveling your walk. If you're elderly or infirm, ask a neighbor. I've been shoveling my elderly neighbor's sidewalk for the past eight years. Same with neighbors who are out of town.

    As a result of lazy home owners, apartment house owners and businesses not shoveling, the sidewalks are bloody *treacherous* tonight. All that snow melt today flash froze at sundown, in some places with a clear glare ice that looks like a dry sidewalk.

    I walked the dogs in the street tonight rather than braved the black ice on the walks. Sure enough, I watched another dog owner take an embarrassing spill on the sidewalk when her little yapper tried to get alpha with my guys.
  • For once, PS 282 shoveled. Woo! Is there a new custodian there? There were tire tracks, so I guess a machine was employed. The adjoining playground is parks dept...sidewalk not so shoveled. Phooey.

    Ice and dogs, phooey. 688 Union didn't shovel til late late yesterday (the only ones on the block leading to the subway who didn't shovel) so their snow melted and made an ice flow on their next door neighbors, the world music place also at 688 Union who *were* shoveled out at the start of the weekend.

    So flipping annoying and treacherous.
  • so many of the houses on our block didn't shovel-it was worse because of the ice run off. truly dangerous. and i know some of these yuppie homeowners, so I don't know what their excuse is!
  • tajmb wrote: The city doesn't even bother to shovel in front of the schools and playgrounds. Of course, that wouldn't necessarily stop them from ticketing others.
    I had to go to 321 on Friday while it was snowing and the maintenance people from there were out and clearing snow, it was the easiest place to walk.
  • My failure-to-shovel peeve of the morning -- the community garden at the corner of 5th and President. Isn't it the responsibility of the so-called "community" garden to shovel their sidewalk? If not, how about opening it to the public and calling it a park?
  • Matt Foley wrote: My failure-to-shovel peeve of the morning -- the community garden at the corner of 5th and President. Isn't it the responsibility of the so-called "community" garden to shovel their sidewalk? If not, how about opening it to the public and calling it a park?
    Exactly! It was a freaking ice skating rink this morning. Unacceptable.
  • With the money crunch the city's in, I'm truly surprised the sanitation ticket writers aren't on the prowl. I'd welcome a sustained ticket blitz. This one time.
  • If I was on Ice Patrol this morning, I would have levied heavy fines against homeowners and apartment buildings, not businesses - 8th Avenue and the blocks between 7th and 8th are truly dangerous.
  • Another prime offender is the Armory - they *never* shovel along the 15th street side (and presumably ditto for the 14th street side).

    (And don't even get me started on their garbage...)
  • soutslopesuit, don't even get me started about the armory in general!

    and whomever owns the former circles cafe hasn't touched what's now a giant patch of ice on the sidewalk going toward the subway entrance. not ok.
  • How about the Southwest corner of Seventh Ave and Union? A vast sheet of ice on the sidewalk two days after the storm. I hope someone slips and sues the crap out of Brown Harris Stevens.
  • flux wrote: modsquad is correct. however, I walked on 5th avenue on saturday and most of the store fronts cleared the snow. I walked from 9st down to 1st.
    South slope on 5th ave is fine as well except for Buttermilk. They must not care about their customers and others. Actually, the worst spot is the street right above the Prospect Expressway. Both sides are iced the entire stretch.
  • this really upsets me. i won't let certain relatives of mine venture out! i bring them groceries instead. I seriously don't understand how the yuppie homeowners can literally skate past their responsibilities. -bitterrenter.
  • The Chipster wrote: this really upsets me. i won't let certain relatives of mine venture out! i bring them groceries instead. I seriously don't understand how the yuppie homeowners can literally skate past their responsibilities. -bitterrenter.
    The problem with some of the residences who do not shovel is that when you look at the home, you can tell that the owners are not in town - probably in Florida for the winter. Often when the sidewalk is not safe, the same can be said for the stairs of the home, solid sheets of ice and snow with no footprints. I guess they figure out of sight out of mind, but I am sure the mail carriers have a different opinion, unless the homeowner has arranged for mail to be collected at the post office..
  • The Chipster wrote: this really upsets me. i won't let certain relatives of mine venture out! i bring them groceries instead. I seriously don't understand how the yuppie homeowners can literally skate past their responsibilities. -bitterrenter.
    On the block that I used to live, a few houses went unshoveled. Two houses were old-timers and one was just a useless asshole. The yuppies kept their sidewalks shoveled. Just sayin'
  • Who is responsible for the sidewalk over the Prospect Expressway? Probably the same people responsible for ticketing people who don't shovel.

    It took two days for the ice and snow to be cleaned off of our freaking steps.
  • Walking anywhere in the the center slope this morning was a death-defying act - all black ice and irresponsible building owners - saw 2 people fall as they were attempting to walk their dogs. Totally f**king crazy!
  • Calling out two properties (along with calling 311):
    24 Underhill (McKay manfacturing?)
    259 Prospect Pl
    Would it kill you to throw a fistfull of salt on the sidewalk?

    Update: 2 open complaints for 259 Prospect pl (watta putz...)
  • I wonder if maybe some of the properties aren't cleared because the owners are out of town for the holidays.
  • I was out on Monday and there were sooo many unshoveled sidewalks...in front of businesses and homes....and I saw someone enter the home where there was an unshoveled sidewalk (so much for being out of town). There was one big slab of ice and the poor mailman was walking so slow trying not to fall. With the city in need of so much money, why aren't they out fining these homes and businesses????

    One of the worst streets was Third Street between 5th & 6th Avenue...now, those houses/apartments are expensive...these people can't afford to hire someone to shovel if they don't want to do it?????
  • i had to help pick up a woman who'd fallen on her own unshoveled steps. shithead landlord.

    lots of blood on her hands. i wish i could have done it myself but i wasn't strong enough. so one of the shelter women, with a joint in her hand, helped me
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