One Prospect Park is going to be huge
All these "out of scale" concerns about new development in Brooklyn seem a bit overblown... but just take a look at the size of this thing! Can anyone Photoshop this into a photo of the Temple parking lot to see how it will look?Quote from an article in The Real Deal:
"With his Lower Manhattan projects complete, Meier is turning to Brooklyn. One Prospect Park will be a 15-story glass tower with 119 condos, located along Plaza Street and Eastern Parkway facing Grand Army Plaza and overlooking Prospect Park. It's scheduled to be completed in summer 2008."
LINK: Living in glass houses, shunning stone [The Real Deal]
Comments
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[quote=pete_c]
SOLD! -
I like my design better.
Oh please for the love of G_d, don't sue me Mr. Meier..Please -
w/o a better original, its kind of hard to get anything even remotely accurate, but based on floor sizes I'd think that the lower half will be at or higher than the line of brownstone cornices off to the northeast, along St John's.
I like quig's better too! More true to the neighborhood spirit at least. -
you guys are awesome with that stuff!
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you guys are awesome
The synagogue building is 8 high-ceilinged floors high. You can see the Statue of Liberty from the 7th fl window of the pool, for another year or so. -
pete_c wrote: w/o a better original, its kind of hard to get anything even remotely accurate, but based on floor sizes I'd think that the lower half will be at or higher than the line of brownstone cornices off to the northeast, along St John's.
Aren't the brownstones ~5 stories? (metulj?) I would expect the Meier building to be maybe 50% higher than depicted. -
qtrain wrote: [quote=pete_c]w/o a better original, its kind of hard to get anything even remotely accurate, but based on floor sizes I'd think that the lower half will be at or higher than the line of brownstone cornices off to the northeast, along St John's.
Aren't the brownstones ~5 stories? (metulj?) I would expect the Meier building to be maybe 50% higher than depicted.
I think they're only 4 stories on that side of St. Johns (6 stories on the other side). -
Carnivore wrote: I think they're only 4 stories on that side of St. Johns (6 stories on the other side).
So, it's possible that the top of the building would not be visible in pete's picture. -
Subject: Summer 2008!!!
I am planning on sending my daughter to Union Temple next fall. That means that there will be construction for the entire 2 years she is there. Does anybody now the details of the construction sched? Like does Summer 2008 mean completion of interior fit-outs, too?
thx -
Does anyone know where to find One Prospect Park? I'd like to know.
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On second look, I think pete_c's picture is pretty accurate. Whatever I said before was crazy talk.
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Image moved to Flickr in anticipation of bandwidth-thrashing.
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Subject: Get more info on the Meier Bldg here:
Hey,
you can find out the status of the filing and actually get a copy of theplans if you want here: It is Public information - all buildings in NYC are here.
Violations, Block and lot, Owners, Job filings for work, complaints, etc. - even for your building.
The NYC Department of Buildings Website.
the actual address is "17 Eastern Parkway", Brooklyn, The building identification number is :3259310
Enter the BIS ( Building information System) here:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/bis/bis.shtml
When they file the architectural drawings you can obtain a copy of the plans!
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qtrain wrote: [quote=pete_c]w/o a better original, its kind of hard to get anything even remotely accurate, but based on floor sizes I'd think that the lower half will be at or higher than the line of brownstone cornices off to the northeast, along St John's.
Aren't the brownstones ~5 stories? (metulj?) I would expect the Meier building to be maybe 50% higher than depicted.
American Townhouses (AKA something approaching brownstones) are USUALLY 3-5 floors. It is a squishy thing because of garden apartments, garrets and attics. The building would be at least 80% "out of scale." One Prospect Park is out of scale even with my building (50 Plaza - 12 floors) which is a pre-war with 10-foot ceilings and what not. -
Subject: jesus christ
that is an ugly building. i fucking hate architects. they care nothing about perserving the character of the neighborhoods they are building in. ridiculous. not to mention its just plain ugly. ugly ugly ugly. arrrg!!!!!! die. -
Well, it does kind of match the new entrance to the Brooklyn Museum...
Really though, what were they thinking? Total clash with the buildings on that block. -
Subject: Re: jesus christ
outeraccelerator wrote: that is an ugly building. i fucking hate architects. they care nothing about perserving the character of the neighborhoods they are building in. ridiculous. not to mention its just plain ugly. ugly ugly ugly. arrrg!!!!!! die.
I wouldn't say that about architects across the board and, as far as a creative process goes, I can certainly understand the desire to do something new as opposed to rehashing an idea from someone long gone... that being said, I think that there's a certain challenge in doing something new and creative and yet retaining certain elements, echoes, if you will, of the surrounding environment. I think that that would be a sign of greatness in an architect.
And yeah, I do agree that this building is particularly effin' ugly. I can appreciate the fact that not everything is going to appeal to my aesthetic, but whether it's glass or a more conventional building material, there's nothing going on with this design. He (Meier) seems to be enamored with the technical aspect, with the fact that he can. In the process, he evidently stopped asking himself if he should. That, and the fact that it's just being plopped down without any consideration of the surroundings... I'm surprised that there's not a bigger stink going on about this building, considering the proximity to the arch, etc... is this the sort of thing that historic zoning/landmarking, is supposed to protect a neighborhood from? -
There was a story a prof of mine in my historic preservation grad program used to tell that goes something like this:
There was a very historic building that over time had fallen into some decline, and so work was begun on a major demolition and rebuilding project. Because of the building's historic significance, there was a lot of controversy surrounding the project but there were no laws governing architectural review of the project. Along the way a relatively inexperienced architect and artist was put in charge of not only the physical structure, but also the decoration of the interior spaces which were controversial at the time and much maligned by other artists, architects, political leaders and the general public.
Sounds like a preservationist's nightmare, right?
Yep, accept for the building is St. Peter's Basilica and the Sistine Chapel.
Now, One Prospect Park may not be an international landmark in the making, but we should be careful to jump to too many conclusions. The Brooklyn Public Library across the street was considered an eyesore when built, but now it's seen as one of the most important modern architecture examples in the city.
Today's crap might be tomorrow's classic.
And compared to a weedy parking lot surrounded by a rusty chain link fence, I'll take the new building. -
Subject: Re: jesus christ
outeraccelerator wrote: ... is this the sort of thing that historic zoning/landmarking, is supposed to protect a neighborhood from?
Yes, accept for that stretch of Eastern Parkway isn't landmarked, so there is no recourse with the design. -
There's no objective way to measure whether a building is "nice looking" or not, so I hardly think an architect or developer should need a community's seal of approval on the aesthetics before he/she builds. For all people can scream about how this or any other building is "ugly", that's just their opinion.
The ultimate barometer will be whether or not the building can sell. If it's universally regarded as ugly, nobody will want to live there. But it strikes me that most of the buildings (Astor Place, for example) that are decried as visual abominations have a long line of people outside willing to plunk down $ millions because they happen to think it's beautiful. I'm pretty sure there are tons of people who think glass buildings look nice.
Also, 15 stories isn't even close to being out of scale over there. There are plenty of tall buildings in that area, and with the potential park views, a 15th story apartment will undoubtedly be a hot commodity. -
sterling2000 wrote: There was a very historic building that over time had fallen into some decline, and so work was begun on a major demolition and rebuilding project. Because of the building's historic significance, there was a lot of controversy surrounding the project but there were no laws governing architectural review of the project. Along the way a relatively inexperienced architect and artist was put in charge of not only the physical structure, but also the decoration of the interior spaces which were controversial at the time and much maligned by other artists, architects, political leaders and the general public.
Point taken, but please, don't compare Meier to Michelangelo, even indirectly, ever again! :shock:
Sounds like a preservationist's nightmare, right?
Yep, accept for the building is St. Peter's Basilica and the Sistine Chapel. -
Subject: For those of you that hate the building.....
I am an architect here in New York.
The correct address is 17 Eastern Parkway -I guess they are changing it...? I also thought it was only 40 condos according to the article...
Look it up on the NYC DOB website.
I'm sure it isnt all that bad and when it is built it will look nicer than a 1" picture....But the public needs to get more involved when it comes to city planning and architecture...or you get things you dont want.
Did anyone attend the local hearings when this project came up....?
Seriously, I know if is a pain, but buildings last 50-100 years or so sometimes. Its worth the trip.
I am not the biggest fan of Richard Meier but must say his office does some fairly elegant buildings ( the Ithaca, NY Courthouse is one that comes to mind as does the Jubilee Church in Rome) that can stand the test of time. The Brooklyn Museum addition by Polshek and Partners was a success in my opinion. It made the old building stand out by being newer. I think the contrast is successful and is part of what makes the space exciting. The West side towers are...Okay, but I think the end product of this building will be very nice - unaffordable to most of us - but that is no diferent from 80% of the existing buildings in this town.
All I am saying is, Corinthian columns, rustication and decorative cornices are no longer as relevant to our architectural language - or our lives today- and alas, we must move on. they are beuatiful, but not really the symbols of 21st century Western culture any longer - except in their appropriate historic context. Those items are great architectural elements and should always be appreciated and used when appropriate. However, we have our own modern symbols and icons of imperialism and opression (MTv, Starbucks, blackberrys ) and dont need those any longer
So, while I do agree the building looks pretty large, because of what I know of this office,I am going to have faith that the detailing and execution of the building will be done well. I am nore concerned about the parking - is there any? Will there be retail in the base of the building? Will this bing more stores to the area? A better, fresher grocery store!!? Snootier people thatn the regular Park Slopers?
Is it true: +/-$1 Million for a 2BR?Wow! -
i think that the plan called for an underground parking garage. i haven't heard anything about retail stores.
even though it is kind of rundown, i love the look of the block on underhill b/t st john's and sterling, the one with the impact theater on it. i foresee the rapid gentrification of that retail block once 1 Prospect Park is in place. -
How is 15 stories out of scale? - virtually every building on that part of E.Pkwy is at least 12 stories (same as across GAP)
as for the style not 'matching' SO WHAT
All this chanting for 'contextual' building is really a recipie for sameness. Seems like all anyone wants built in Brownstone Brooklyn is a disney-recreation of some Gilded Age masterpiece. -
escap wrote: The ultimate barometer will be whether or not the building can sell. If it's universally regarded as ugly, nobody will want to live there.
So not true. Most people don't care what the outside of the building they live in looks like. You're actually best off living in the ugliest building on the block, because then you don't have to look at it! However the outside looks, the apartments in that building are going to have views of the plaza, the arch and the park, and of the much classier older buildings around it. They're not going to have any trouble selling those apartments, no matter how ugly the building is. -
Subject: Remember....
When it was being built and first completed, the French hated the Eiffel Tower....But that is the French. They complained that the only good view of Paris was from the tower itself....thus avoiding having to look at the tower. How times change.
I, for one, am actually glad to see famous architects building things in my neighborhood. But I like it better when they are designing and building "civic " projects: train stations, museums, parks, bridges, etc. the line between greedy developer and big-headed ( greedy) architect is becomming blurred. But I want better design in buildings like most of you want better looking mp3 players. Unfortunately, the general public is not engaged enough in the decision making process - part of that is the fault of architects and planners for not making their case a little better.
Propsect heights could use a little street cleaning and gentrification.
I do not follow the party line that all development is bad. The Botanical Garden entrance and BK Museum renovation are examples of good development. Some stretches of Vandy are being wasted when they could be sources of tax revenue income for the nabe with shops, restaurants and of course, money for the owners!
Enough of the "Hey, I like the gritty, dirty look of this crappy street or that crappy street". People who own vacant, dormant, decrepid properties should be forced to keep them up, keep them clean, painted and safe. If not, they should be fined heavily and steadily. And I am for some immenent domain for the developement of neighborhoods. So you owned it for 50 years - you never painted it once dude!!
I'll take a new Meier residential tower instead of yet another bad chinese take out joint or another jerked chicken hole in the wall- or, dare I say, another 99 cent store!
Eastern Parkway is also going to have a major makeover within the next 2 - 3 years thanks to Bloomberg and local politicians. When the Library plaza opens up this Spring, it wil really bring things together nicely. It will be difficult to deny the success of the projects because of the number of people using them.
Now if we could just fix up that no-mans-land around Grand Army Plaza's fountain - weed wacker and cool pedestrian bridge please!! -
Dude, did you look at the picture? I don't think it's the case that people lack the vision to appreciate the genius of this building. The building is a piece of crap. I'm not trying to romanticize the empty overgrown parking lot that was there before, and I recognise that we shouldn't make perfect the enemy of good. However, that's definitely going to be the ugliest thing on the plaza.
Incidentally, how do you think all that glass is going to be maintained? If they're not washing the windows frequently, the glass is going to look really dingy in no time.
I just hope it looks better in real life than it does in the picture. -
Subject: Okay
Well,
I don't think anyone can clearly tell what the buildings details and features look like from that intentionally small jpeg. I am going to hold off on judgement until I get better larger images or the drawings.
Based on other Buildings Meier has done over the past 30 years, Somehow I don't think it will be as ugly as everyone is making it out to be. Buildings like that usually have window washing/ maintenance features on them ( sometimes retractable and on the roof and paid for by hefty maintenace costs by the owners). Architects do think of those things.
High quality glass will likely be used - they type that prevents heavy light reflection and distortion - it is a given with his buildings. He has done them all over he globe. check them out for yourself:
http://www.richardmeier.com/
Besides, my neighbor's windows are dirty now and it is not a Meier building..... -
Subject: Re: Remember....
SevenOneEighty wrote:
Word,
I, for one, am actually glad to see famous architects building things in my neighborhood.
Prospect Heights could use a little street cleaning and gentrification.
I do not follow the party line that all development is bad.
Enough of the "Hey, I like the gritty, dirty look of this crappy street or that crappy street".
I'll take a new Meier residential tower instead of yet another bad chinese take out joint or another jerked chicken hole in the wall- or, dare I say, another 99 cent store!
Now if we could just fix up that no-mans-land around Grand Army Plaza's fountain - weed wacker and cool pedestrian bridge please!!
Word,
Word,
Word,
and
Word!
Does a lot of the debate come down to people who rent are anti-development and people who own are pro-development? As a former renter, and now an owner, I'm very much interested in anything that is going attract additional businesses that will improve the neighborhood and property values. I wish I could go back in time ten years to when I was renting in Fort Greene and buy a place as the neighborhood started to really ramp up. I recall a gorgeous four bedroom two bath duplex with a back yard with a garden shed for $180,000 that seemed so expensive at the time for the neighborhood. I even remember looking at a whole small brownstone for about $280K and thinking, "That's crazy! Who would pay that much to live on this street?"
Oh, how times and priorities change...
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