Unleashed PitBull---Same owner as Lucky the Poodle
Comments
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roux42 wrote: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
doesn't the download part report pits to have attacked the most? "Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998"
Scroll down towards the bottom... The dogs that bite the most are not pits. The statistics on this site are pretty interesting. -
Subject: Dog Breed Profiling
Check out Malcolm Gladwell's piece in the New Yorker about the profiling of Pit Bulls. He uses it as a metaphor for racial profiling, but it addresses a lot of the issues raised in this thread.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060206fa_fact -
EmilyM wrote: Um, am I the only person who noticed that this thread is months old? I don't see the sense in getting upset about it now...
i almost responded but thought the same thing. -
moufaisbad wrote: [quote=EmilyM]Um, am I the only person who noticed that this thread is months old? I don't see the sense in getting upset about it now...
i almost responded but thought the same thing.
mi tambien
but I did get pissed off at RBG all over again . . . -
Subject: RBG and Pit Bulls
You can be angry all you want, but unleashed Pitbulls running off leash in residential areas are dangerous and scary. Get mad at the old woman who was mauled in the face by a pitbull a few months ago. And what about all the toddlers who've been killed by pit bulls? -
i KNOW someone wants to lock this post.
if ever there was a good one to lock
this would be the one!!!
:roll: -
wait, so are people saying that they think it is o.k. to have dogs off leash in this city?! because that is f-d up. it's so dangerous for so many reasons that are so obvious. doesn't matter if the dog is on "voice command" or not.
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I know this is an old post, and I usually do not get involved in these types of conversations, but I feel very strongly about this topic as it often comes up in this neighborhood.
First of all, no dog should be walked off leash in the city, the suburbs or anywhere else. Dogs can easily be spooked and even the most well trained dog can easily be distracted. I know of someone in this neighborhood that lost her 2 very-well trained dogs a couple of years ago when they were spooked and ran into the street.
As for the comments that have been made regarding pit bulls, I understand why people may be intimidated by their reputation, but this reputation is not deserved. We have been walking dogs as professional dog walkers for the last 6 years and have walked at least 150 different dogs. A large number of them have been pit bull or pit-mixes. We have never had any problems with them. Some may not be good with other dogs, but none have been aggressive towards any of us or any other human. Even the ones that have been horribly abused, and unfortunately there are many, are sweet and always trying to please. As a matter of fact, the only bites or serious “incidents†we have had during our 6 years have been with an English bulldog, a golden retriever and a jack russell. When I mean a bite, I mean serious enough to require stitches and leave a scar. Lastly, thousands and thousands of pits are euthanized every year in the United States because many of us believe that they are a vicious breed. Sorry for the long posting. -
I'm respectful of all dogs that have the type of strength that pitbulls possess, but I'm even more wary of pitbulls specifically- not because they're bad dogs, and they really aren't, but because they seem to attract bad owners.
I do agree that dogs should be on leashes and I don't think that anyone is advocating the opposite. I think that Nikki is trying to point out that just because the dog's owner let it run free, it's not a first-time offense worthy of a death sentence for the dog, which is exactly what's going to happen (if it's a pit) if animal control is brought in. -
As a dog owner, I have to respond to this as well.
I have "the sweetest mutt in the world". He is adorable (of course). About 1 year ago, we were living in NOVA and there was a community grassy space in the middle of all the houses where all the neighbors (who all had dogs) would let their dogs play, off-leash, together. One day, a neighbor walked by with her dog, LEASHED, to go back into her home. My dog, along with 4 other dogs, ran up aggressively to the leashed dog. All I knew was that my dog was baring his teeth, snarling, and barking a lot. It happened so fast that I had no idea that anyone got hurt. Next thing we know, the owners of the leashed dog rushed her to the pet emergency room and then presented me with a $1000 bill for their dog needing stiches in her anus (weird, I know).
In my almost 4 years of owning him, he never showed much agression towards other dogs.
What my point is, is that dogs are DOGS. You never can fully predict how they are going react/behave. I trusted my dog so much that I let him run off the leash until the "incident". Now I would never let him off unless at the park with other off leash dogs during designated hours. It pisses me off too to see people walking in urban areas (with children, physically challenged, and eldery people walking around) with their dogs off leash.
Its bad ju ju I tell ya! -
moufaisbad wrote: [quote=RBG]I feel I should be honest here... That aggressive Yorkie belongs to me. He's only aggressive towards other dogs, but he LOVES people. I sincerely apologize on his behalf. Sometimes he really can be 6 1/2 pounds worth of terror....
HAHAHAHA!!!
thats YOUR dog that was across the street practically KILLING herself to get at my Great Dane?!?!!?
"Moxie" is RIGHT!!!
that's all that needs to be said - owner of actual aggressive dog (size doesn't matter, they all have teeth) advocates death penalty for calm pitbull.
nice. -
since this post has been dredged up I have been desperately trying to keep my comments to myself, however I can't let this one slide.
in this particular instance, the pit bull is not innocent.
angel wears a muzzle. dog's owners don't put muzzles on harmless dogs. I gave it the benefit of the doubt because i had never seen any aggression, until about 2 weeks ago.
they live next door to us and share the courtyard in the back. Angel attacked a cat and a dog within 2 days. I watched its owner kick it to get it off the other dog. I have never heard anything so awful as the sound of that shreiking.
we called the cops.
i would be willing to bet that if the CACC took angel it would be because there were previous incidents. That was not the attack of a dog who had never bit before.
and it had nothing to do with angel being a pit bull.
sometimes dogs snap and once it happens you can only manage it and that is NEVER fullproof. Its far worse when the dog that snaps is big and powerful.
i know because i have had a dog like that.
you do the best you can and if you feel like they will still be a threat, you do the responsible thing and have the dog put down.
sorry if anyone is offended but after 3 years of working with every behaviorist in NY and Atlanta we were unable to manage my dog well enough for me to feel comfortable.
I had to have 8 stitches in my face and was thankful that it was me and not a neighbors child. I did what i felt was the most responsible thing.
I had this dog for years and it was one of the most difficult decisions i have ever had to make. I cried for months after. But i still feel like i did the right thing.
my dog was not a pit bull. -
that's a sad story
for sure dogs in the city need leashes, and responsible owners . . . -
Subject: Thanks Moufaisbad for sharing your story
It always amazes me how posters on this listserv attack opinions that aren't 100% pc...Angel has run towards me on a few occasions and I've witnessed her run, off leash, towards a baby in a stroller. Its nice to know that i wasn't the only person to notice how meancing that dog can be. That said, it saddens me to know that the shrieking cat we've all heard at one time or another may have been ripped apart....Pitu, I hope you never have to come face to face with an unleashed Angel on a bad day...Contrary to what you believed, she can in fact be dangerous. And "good owners" don't let their dogs run off leash in residential neighborhoods. -
I know this is going to be the dissenting opinion and I'll probably get flamed but if a dog in not of a certain breed that concerns me (eg. pit, fila, rott and terriers around kids) and the dog is of some maturity then having a leash is not a concern for me.
The point made above regarding that once a dogs "snaps" and it being volatile thereafter is an excellent point and very true. -
Subject: dogs need responsible owners wether they are friendly or not
As somone who was bitten on Washington Ave just over a year ago by an off leash Pit Bull I can say from expierience that it is IRRESPONSIBLE to let your dog have rule of the public sidewalk. Having a dog of any size is a serious responsibility especially if the dog is of signifigant size and can do damage. The guy who owns these dogs is using them to subtley ( or possily not so subtley) to intimidate his neighbors. Not cool. yall can tell me one million times that they are sweet dogs but everybody is at least a little scared of pit bulls especially if they are off leash and the owner is nowhere to be seen. This guy is playing dumb, he knows exactly what he's doing, and it's bullshit.
My dog is a big scarey looker and even if I knew he wouldn't hurt a fly I wouldn't think of letting him roam free, even if the only reason was to keep my neighbors feel safe.
All dogs are inherantly dangerous and need responsible owners. in the end it's the dog who gets put down and that's a shame when in the hands of a responsible owner he could be better taken care of.
There's my 2 cents, ( more like a buck fiddy) -
also, harmless little 15 pound dogs on leashes can sadly start things with scary dogs. this was my experience today and i am just happy that the 2 german shepards were also on leashes when the little fancy foo foo french dog lunged at them!! :roll:
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Vanilla - so true - It amazes me how owners of these tiny dogs apparently put no effort into training. I walk down the street w/ my 2 Pits and we are constantly dodging snarling, growling, barking and pulling little runts and the owners seem oblivious or almost think its cute, God Forbid however if my Pits took a bite out of them - then it would be screams of Vicous Pitbulls (of course my dogs wouldnt bite anything anyway)
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The problems are not inherent to the breed, but the breed can play a part in "perfect storms" when combined with shitty owners and bad circumstances.
This is a long read, but well worth it, for those who would profile dogs or humans:
http://www.newyorker.com/printables/fact/060206fa_fact -
that was a fantastic article.
it seems silly that the focus should be put on the dog breed, specifically in this arena. There is no lack of intelligent people who regularly post here and i feel like not stereotyping should be a given.
you take people on a case by case and the same should be true for dogs.
but they should all be leashed
:P -
Here's a picture of the real Angel from a couple of years ago when the corner laundry at Underhill/St Johns was still open. Angel is the rednose on the left.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/300796/dog1.jpg
Angel is not a girl. The other dog in the picture was killed in a fight, so goes the street gossip from local kids, but this may not be true. *grain of salt* I haven't seen him since about a month after the picture was taken. I only see Angel occasionally.
The dog seen around the emptied laundry now is a mastiff/pit mix of some sort. The owner sometimes has it on a leash, sometimes not. If there is a girl Angel I haven't met her yet.
I really do hate off leash dogs. That's the main reason I don't like Prospect Park. The off leash dogs there are out of control. When I go to Prospect Park I have to be on my guard constantly against off leash dogs, and it is not a relaxing feeling.
People who allow their dogs to run off leash in the street (or the park) are selfish, at best, including our friend with the pack of laundry dogs. However, I have dealt with this situation for decades, and my dog, a rather dog-aggressive (albeit well trained) pit bull, will try to bite any unleashed dog that gets close to her. The laundry dogs know her well and give her a wide berth. I have never had any problems with them. Once pitbulls get a butt rub, they are putty in your hands LOL
I am more annoyed by the little yappers whose owners can't be bothered to train them to STFU. -
Wait ,so all dogs should be on leash even in prospect park becasue yours "will try to bite any unleashed dog that gets close". Yours sounds exactly like the kind of dog I dont want on the block even if its on a leash.
I am more annoyed by the little yappers whose owners can't be bothered to train them to STFU
Maybe you should train your dog not to bite other dogs...or cant you be bothered? -
I've been taking care of Lucy for the past few days, and yeah, I have to echo the sentiment about the off-leash dogs and the leashed, but poorly trained (and typically small), dogs. A well-trained dog should be able to work through distractions, but you can only ask so much of them- if they need to defend themselves, they need to defend themselves.
The other thing that amazes me is how bad of a reputation pit bulls have! I can't tell you how many times I've seen people crossing the street to avoid the two of us!
I think that there's some ignorance about her lead. She's been wearing a Halti gentle lead (thanks again Nikki!) and most people think that it's a muzzle... if she's wearing a muzzle, she must be a bad dog, right? No.
Although the Halti does, to a very limited extent, control her snout/mouth, it's primary purpose is to make her easier to direct. I actually had a well-meaning but ignorant fellow question why I didn't just get her a chest harness... after all, it works well on his 20 lb dog and it doesn't at all choke them when they pull... I don't think that I got my point across that I'd like to see him try to control a dog with Lucy's strength when you've conveniently given her a way to apply all of her power... there is a reason for the name "harness". "All you have to do is show them that you're in control; let them know who their master is..." he replied (he'd watched The Dog Whisperer a few times). Unfortunately, Lucy is stronger than me in some ways. How 'bout I use my intelligence to give me that physical edge back? How do you direct a horse? Do you put a harness around it's chest? No. You control it's head. You control the head, you control the body. It's a pretty simple philosophy and it works in a variety of situations.
Now that I've got that off my chest... -
Captain M wrote: Wait ,so all dogs should be on leash even in prospect park becasue yours "will try to bite any unleashed dog that gets close". Yours sounds exactly like the kind of dog I dont want on the block even if its on a leash.
I hear your point, but it's not uncommon for dogs that have been attacked by other dogs to have an aversion to them. I don't think that there's much that you can do other than to keep them out of an environment where they'd feel threatened, which rockhound obviously does. His point, I think, is that you can keep your dog out of that environment, but with unleashed dogs running about or with poorly trained dogs being led about by their owners, you can't always keep that environment from your dog.I am more annoyed by the little yappers whose owners can't be bothered to train them to STFU
Maybe you should train your dog not to bite other dogs...or cant you be bothered? -
There is only so much training one can do with a dog, they all have instincts and some get scared when off leash dogs come barreling up to them, I actually have rarely had problems with this at the park, most people have their off leash dogs at the off leash area or doggy beach. but other times not, I was minding my own business no where near the off leash area, with my ipod and eyes closed on the grass and my dog , leashed, right next to me, suddenly I hear growling and a huge fighting type dog was getting ready to fight with mine. now there's no way for me to train my dog to back down on a fight like that and I wouldn't want him to anyway. the owner strolled up and grabbed him while I tried to keep things from escalating. whatta asshole...
or how bout the time an off leash pit got in a fight with my dog and I got seriously bit by him while trying to break up the fight while his owner stood by and watched. ( in retrospect I shouldda kiched instead of using my hands ) I lost a months wages as I couldn't work and had $1500 in hospitol bills. now you wanna tell me that it's no biggie for dogs like that to be off leash in public? news flash, we in the city now, this aint the country where yer dog patrolls the property an guards the sheep. in an urban setting you gotta deal with lots of other people and their dogs, you can't count on either of them being nice and responsible. you gotta protect yer self and society at large.
Now Master M, I aint tryin to start beef with you, I respect yer opinions etc but I think yer dead wrong on this one.
Who and where are the "laundry dogs"?
That pic of angel is important evidance that homeboy who owns him wants a scarey intimidating dog. compared to that monster, I couldn't care less bout yappers, I write them off as city noise and frankly find them and their funny sweaters and booties hilarious, I always make the joke when they lunge visciously at my dog that he narrowly avoided death. he he he,
and as strongly as I feel about this topic, c'mon yall we can disagree with out getting all rilled up and gettin feelings hurt, sheeit just tone yer posts as if the person yer talkin to is right there in front of you, we wouldn't be so nasty then would we,
peace yall -
MikeWalton718 wrote: Who and where are the "laundry dogs"?
They're the original subjects of the thread: Lucky, Angel and the other pit/mastiff mix that rockhound mentioned. Generally located by the old wedge-shaped laundry market at Underhill and St Johns (I believe- I've ever run in to 'em). -
I'm not saying all dogs should be allowed off the leash, I saying I find it ironic that the owner of an admittedly agressive dog thinks all other dogs should have to be on the leash and the owners of "yapping" dogs "cant be bothered to train them"
unleashed dogs running about or with poorly trained dogs being led about by their owners, you can't always keep that environment from your dog.
This is exactly my problem with owners like rockhound, The park is designated to be off leash at certain hours so dont be surprised if you find a dog off the leash. Especially new owners who arent "hip" and let their dog run up to others.
You can never predict what environment a dog is going to be in, you dont know if a child walking by is going to trip and fall on your dog completely by accident, at least I know my dog would not react by thinking it is under attack. I was bit in the face in a similar situation as a child. I have seen nasty dogs like that viciously pin and bite puppies that were coming up for an innocent sniff, make no mistake about which is the poorly socializeddog.
You cannot blame environment, less educated owners, other off leash dogs, or whatever on the results of your dogs agressive behavior. -
Lucky and Samson are the 2 dogs at the laundry.
We fondly refer to Samson as my dogs Boyfriend.
they love each other and everytime we walk by the door she looks for him.
thanks nybt for the halti explanation. Both of my dogs wear them for exactly that reason. who wants to put a harness on a big dogs strongest body part?
I have been taking my dogs to prospect park for years and i have had very few incidents where dogs have attacked mine relative to how many dogs there are off-leash. I have always found that people are pretty respectful, (thats not always true but again, relative to how many rude people there are... :roll: )
My dog doesn't always do well with other dogs so she doesn't get to be off leash at any time in the park. Similarly, i think most people don't want the hassle of having to apologize when their dog acts like a beast so they keep them on leash.
But having said that, some perfectly dog friendly dogs become aggressive when on-leash because they are afraid they can't defend themselves.
and rockhound, there are designated areas and hours in the park where dogs are allowed to run without leashes.
i think that if people are following the rules, that is perfectly fair to everyone.
The hours are not long and it means that EVERYONE gets to enjoy the park in their own way.
For instance, if someone jogs and doesn't like dogs, they shouldn't run through the parade ground area before 9am.
I have no use for the park unless I am there watching the dogs run and play. So I follow the rules and expect others to respect that. -
we have the Halti collar too,it works well. I also have to second the idiocy of the picture of angel, who the hell uses a heavy chain for a leash, unless of course it need to have a strong neck for fighting.
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Captain M wrote: You cannot blame environment, less educated owners, other off leash dogs, or whatever on the results of your dogs agressive behavior.
I think that there's a bit of a failure to communicate, here- maybe we should clarify some things, because this statement seems... off.
First, there can be several reasons for a dog to be dog-aggressive. If it's because of poor socializing, that's one thing. If it's because that dog was previously attacked by other dogs, how can you place the blame with the victim? Also, dog-aggressive does not necessarily equal people-aggressive, and people-aggressive does not necessarily equal dog-aggressive.
If someone is in a time and place where dogs are allowed off leash, and they are there with a dog-aggressive dog, then you're absolutely right, they're in the wrong. However, if they're walking their dog-aggressive dog down the street, and it's not lawful for other dogs to be off leash, and a fight ensues with an off leash dog, I don't see how you can blame anyone BUT the off leash dog's owner.
And in what instance do you NOT blame a less-educated dog owner? They've taken ownership of a potentially dangerous animal- ANY dog is potentially dangerous. You assume a certian risk when you aquire the dog, it's your responsibility to educate yourself. If an unlicensed morotist mows down a pedestrian, do you say, "well, he was poorly trained driver, you can't blame him..." No way, you blame him because he assumed a risk when he got behind the wheel.
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