Hipsters

Obamanut wrote: [quote=xlizellx]

...I think that's how NYC works. People come and go. There is always a change in people or else there would be nothing special about New York City - it would just be people living. No ebb and flow of people coming and going.

“One belongs to New York instantly, one belongs to it as much in five minutes as in five years” -- Thomas Wolfe

Just because some people weren't born here, don't hold that against us. We didn't get to choose that -- we DID get to choose to move here.

Right, "people come and go," that's why when I grew up here, almost everyone that was here was FROM here.. EVERYONE. Either that, or they were from ANOTHER COUNTRY, i.e. an immigrant.

When some kid was from another state, e.g. California, it was like this big exotic deal.

See, that is exactly what I'm talking about. You have no idea what Brooklyn was "always" like, because you just got here. Some of us have been here for generations. Yet you feel the need to tell me "how New York works."

Apparently you're not grasping this, but you should know that it's not the transient, long-term tourists that give a place its character--it's the NATIVES. Name one good thing that New York is famous for that is the product of suburban kids coming here on parentally-funded trysts? New York became world-famous because of its accent, its spirit, its attitude, sense of humor, etc. etc. etc... Funny, but I don't recall any of that being the product of Dylan or Caitlyn from Eagle Ridge Drive.

It has nothing to do with being "lucky" to be from New York. It has to do with the difference between this once being a place where real, genuine, people lived and died, as opposed to a movie set used by hordes of media-brainwashed followers to act out a television fantasy on mommy and daddy's tab.

If I may defend New Yorkers originally from the rest of the United States (i.e. nowhere in New York state, NJ or CT), here is a random list:

Pulitzer Prize Winners

Malcolm Johnson (wrote the 24 part series that On The Waterfront was based on) - Georgia
Walt Bogdanich - Chicago
Sydney Schanberg - Clinton, MA
Bill Keller - San Mateo
Teresa Carpenter - Independence, MO
Howell Raines - Birmingham
Murray Kempton - Baltimore
Anna Quindlen - Philadelphia
Mike McAlary - Goffstown, NH
Maureen Dowd - Washington, DC
Nicholas Kristof - Chicago
Sam Shepard - Fort Sheridan, IL
Terrence McNally - St. Petersburg
Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr. - Columbus
David McCullough - Pittsburgh
Marianne Moore - Kirkwood, MO
Wallace Stevens - Reading, PA
Stanley Kunitz - Worcestor, MA
James Wright - Martins Ferry, OH

Nobel Prize Winners
Ralph Bunche - Detroit
(and probably others)

Other important New Yorkers

Joseph Mitchell - Fairmont, NC
O. Henry - Greensboro, NC
Truman Capote - Monroeville, AL
William S. Burroughs - St Louis
Jack Kerouac - Lowell, MA
Frank O'Hara - Baltimore
Kenneth Koch - Cincinnati
Terry Southern - Alvarado, TX
Langston Hughes - Joplin, MO
Andy Warhol - Pittsburgh
James Weldon Johnson - Jacksonville, FL
Stanley Crouch - LA


Musicians

Pete Stampfel - Wauwautosa, WI
Steve Weber - Bucks County, PA
Michael Hurley - Bucks County, PA
Bob Dylan - Duluth, MN
Richard Hell - Lexington, KY
Ornette Coleman - Fort Worth
Ed Sanders - Kansas City
Philip Glass - Baltimore
James Chance - Milwaukee, WI
Muhal Richard Abrams - Chicago
Anthony Braxton - Chicago
Joseph Jarman - Pine Bluff, AR
Rashied Ali - Philadelphia
Albert Ayler - Cleveland Heights, OH
Pharoah Sanders - Little Rock

Comedians

Bill Hicks - Houston
David Cross - Atlanta
Lily Tomlin - Detroit
Richard Pryor - Peoria
Al Franken - born in New York, but grew up in MN
Sarah Silverman - Bedford, NH
Dave Chappelle - Washington, DC
Lewis Black - Silver Spring, MD

And from my own birthplace of Norristown, PA:
Peter Boyle
Mike Piazza

New York definitely is special in many ways. Look at early hip hop; aside from a few key players from outside the country, and influences from all over the country, just about everyone important and formative was from somewhere in the 5 boroughs. But I'm really surprised to hear anyone argue that the things that make New York a world class city, the cultural capital of the nation, have nothing to do with the constant influx of new blood from all over the country, from the whole world. You take all of that away, and New York is just barely more interesting than other quirky old East coast cities, Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc. Just a port city filled with old stevedores and their families. And lots of Italian food.

mjl83lukas wrote: I believe, that in one fashion or another, the current hipster movement may have reared it's horn rimmed black glasses and skinny bs head from the mid-90's yuppie movement when the yuppies started to migrate from their posh lives uptown to the gritty and filthy scenes below 14th St.

I'm not so sure mein friend. Yuppies (i.e., young urban professionals) generally seek out upwardly mobile areas to live (think Park Slope). A Yuppie is, in my opine, quite different from a hipster. Think banker, lawyer, venture capitalist. Your typical hipster is a PA for NBC or a tech geek or a sociologist by day and a soda jerk, keyboardist in a band, or budding artist by night. Yuppies typically dressed in ways that mimic-ed your preppies of the 80s, not the proto-punk outfits that all generally agree are part of the hipster uniform.

pima wrote: So, let's recap;
- everybody hates hipsters, and anyone who hates hipsters is a hipster.
- EVERYONE who used to live in old Brooklyn was a "native", unless they were an immigrant (and they don't count), or one of the few people from California (out west somewhere) who natives thought were weird.
- now everyone from other parts of the USA who moved to Brooklyn (who natives hate even more than immigrants from other countries) is a putz who ruined Brooklyn and deserves to get screwed by the decent Brooklyn natives (but not by the immigrants?).
- Park Slope is a place that is no longer fit for human habitation, unless your rent is ridiculously cheap.
- no decent Brooklyn native would even consider living in Brooklyn anymore, yet they stay and complain about everyone living here.

Hmmmmm, some comments:
-36% of New Yorkers were not even born in the USA. I don't know or really care what the percentage was back in the old days, but that still leaves a sizable population who were not native back then.
- almost all "native" persons are a few generations removed from being immigrants.
- if you want to make fun of hipsters, go to diehipster.com for much better entertainment value.
- when did the Brooklynian become full of so many judgemental people who make a point of insulting anyone / everyone in every posting they make?

Actually, I can sum up the current wave of animosity for you in two sentences:

The vast majority of today's newcomers are fake--fugazi, shallow, rejects from where they came from.

The vast majority of Native, immigrant, and actual "starving artist transplant" New Yorkers (if there are even any left) are not.

That is what this is all about. Despite what most gentrifiers tell themselves about why everyone hates them, this has nothing to do with "change." It has to do with the particular cultureless group responsible for the changing.

As a 3rd generation Brooklynite, I've got to say that this entire thread is retarded.

And it was equally retarded when we had the exact same thread 3 years ago.



That is all.

Shorter Obamanut:

"Hey you kids, get off my lawn!"

vidro3 wrote: [quote=Carnivore]As a 3rd generation Brooklynite, I've got to say that this entire thread is retarded.

And it was equally retarded when we had the exact same thread 3 years ago.



That is all.

great, now apple pants is going to start commenting on that thread.

Let's put it in the time capsule thread now and save us all some time

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I have no problem with hipsters, there are just America's version of Mods. However, I can't tolerate emos who emote about faux traditional values and their degradation by allegedly privileged style-meisters. These emos make even the baby jesus cry.

Jay B wrote: So how did we move from an innocent conversation about hipster style to an all-out assault on anyone who lives in Brooklyn who wasn't born in Brooklyn?

I'm all for making fun of hipster styles and all, but why such pure hatred for anyone who wasn't born here? Obamanut, there's a whole world out there to experience. Just because you've stayed in Brooklyn forever doesn't mean that people from other places have to stay where they were born. It's people who don't experience new things, people, PLACES, etc. who become such haters. And by the way, nobody is impressed that you own a building. You got lucky there, so what? I'd rather be dead broke than wake up everyday with such hate in my heart.

Here we go with the ol' "NY natives are reverse rednecks" schtick, a yuppie/hipster favorite. So anyone born and raised in NYC, who doesn't celebrate gentrification, must be a simpleton who's never done anything with their life. And then they wonder why we hate them.

If you want to put it like that, I can assure you that I have almost definitely been to more places and done more things than you. I've been around the world, numerous times, including just about all of the USA (and probably your hometown). I also speak three languages (not European). Not to brag or anything.

Nobody said you had to be impressed by those of us who are profiting from the lemming invasion. All that rent money is gratitude enough. 8)

Obamanut wrote:

Here we go with the ol' "NY natives are reverse rednecks" schtick, a yuppie/hipster favorite. So anyone born and raised in NYC, who doesn't celebrate gentrification, must be a simpleton who's never done anything with their life. And then they wonder why we hate them.

If you want to put it like that, I can assure you that I have almost definitely been to more places and done more things than you. I've been around the world, numerous times, including just about all of the USA (and probably your hometown). I also speak three languages (not European). Not to brag or anything.

Nobody said you had to be impressed by those of us who are profiting from the lemming invasion. All that rent money is gratitude enough. 8)

Hey, nut, let's make a deal. I'm in my mid 20's and I'm from the Philadelphia suburbs. I'll prove to you that I'm an upstanding guy, I pay my own rent from my own salary (and not from any kind of fund or account that I did not originate). I don't live any kind of bohemian, debauched party lifestyle. I do have a few hipsterisms about me though, I wear Sol Moscot glasses and I'm an avid record collector. But I don't look like a nitwit, other than some Phillies apparel (and I should mention, I hate the Mets, but I do appreciate the Yankees). If I can prove that your universal rule is incorrect, would you make me an exception and rent me one of your apartments, but at a reasonable rate. No sense in getting rich off me if I'm not all that hateable.

Whaddya say? My lease is up in September.

what is with everyone and their skinny jean boyfriends? is it the natural birth control of low sperm count? knots!

i'd like to point one other thing out. i definitely take offense at all the lemming accusations. i did not choose to move to brooklyn in the same way as a lot of the people you're describing. if anything, i consider myself STUCK here.

Economic Downturn Creates Rental "Bizarro World"

Carmen wrote:

he SORT of has a legit excuse- he bikes for work and needs pants that won't get stuck in the chain and all that mess. And they're not actually nearly as tight as most of the ones I see in the burg (which are often very scary)

I bike to work in non skinny pants. I either roll up my pant leg or put a rubber band around my ankle. They also make those velcro reflective ankle straps.

Next excuse.

perfect descript