Peds v Cars: SPLIT from Person Hit By Vehicle Monday
Comments
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^I agree with this to a degree. I've seen some bikers pull some fucked up shit in intersections, causing motorists to come to a screeching halt so as to not hit the dummy.
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This is making me have flashbacks to when I would bike to work on 6th ave in manhattan. So much fun, in a completely terrifying kind of way.
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Obamanut wrote: There is an equally idiotic contingent of cyclists in this neighborhood as well. A few months ago, I was crossing Eighth Avenue at around Lincoln with the signal when a twenty-something Asian guy (yuppie/hipster type) came flying down Eighth Ave on a ten-speed. Silly me, I thought it was a given that I had the right of way. Instead, he blew the light at top speed, and it turned into a game of chicken, with him blowing by me with inches to spare.
Yes, but unlike the pedestrian who was hit a few days ago, and the cyclist who was hit a few months ago, you're still here to complain about it.
When I yelled after him "Are you fuckin' retarded?," he looked back at me all defensive and says "You should watch." I gave him the finger and told him to go fuck himself, and he tried to ride away glaring back at me, like he was tough.
Another time I was crossing the Prospect Park road as a grey-haired professional-type on rollerblades came flying down. When I walked in front of him (again, WITH the signal which he blew), he looked at me like I had just tried to run across the Prospect Expressway during rush hour. When I yelled after him, "Red light, buddy!!," he just looked at me with the same quizzical expression.
The arrogance and absence of common sense among these people is simply astounding. -
Obamanut wrote:
These people.... THESE PEOPLE. There used to be a day when that had some nasty implications.
The arrogance and absence of common sense among these people is simply astounding.
Would other people be more entitled to be arrangement and without common sense.
Would a guy in a Carhartt getting out of a double parked plumbing truck be more entitled to step into traffic. -
winstonsmith wrote: [quote=Obamanut]
These people.... THESE PEOPLE. There used to be a day when that had some nasty implications.
The arrogance and absence of common sense among these people is simply astounding.
Would other people be more entitled to be arrangement and without common sense.
Would a guy in a Carhartt getting out of a double parked plumbing truck be more entitled to step into traffic.
In my life experience, which I like to think of as quite broad, blue-collar guys wearing Carhartt tend to have vastly more common sense than "THESE PEOPLE." But maybe I'm just crazy. -
Obamanut wrote:
sun glare on that street at 7 - 8 am is ferocious.
How do you turn the corner of Carroll and 8th so fast that you run full on into someone crossing just 15-20 feet from the corner?
as far as "these people" -
i tend to think its a contingent of morons
regardless of whether they are the pedestrian biker driver or skater,
who simply dont give a damn if they cause dangerous situations.
(edit - its possible they are simply so STUPID that they are not aware that they are not the only person/bike/vehicle on the street)
The ONLY thing in the entire world thats of any import ,
is what THEY are doing at that instant.
It also explains the million posts about the tenth of a second
a stroller mom delayed someone. -
Garfunky wrote: [quote=Obamanut]
sun glare on that street at 7 - 8 am is ferocious.
How do you turn the corner of Carroll and 8th so fast that you run full on into someone crossing just 15-20 feet from the corner?
as far as "these people" -
i tend to think its a contingent of morons
regardless of whether they are the pedestrian biker driver or skater,
who simply dont give a damn if they cause dangerous situations.
(edit - its possible they are simply so STUPID that they are not aware that they are not the only person/bike/vehicle on the street)
The ONLY thing in the entire world thats of any import ,
is what THEY are doing at that instant.
It also explains the million posts about the tenth of a second
a stroller mom delayed someone.
I have seen, twice on Prospect Park West, drivers run straight into living things without even slowing down. Once it was a dog, and once it was a girl on a mountain bike. The drivers both had plenty of time to see the crossers, at least a block or two. Yet both times, the drivers ran into them full force. The weather was perfectly clear on both of those days, w/ no sun glare. Those are just two of the reasons I feel like people go into some sort of daze when they are behind the wheel.
As for sun glare (and driving in general), my credo is "If you can't see what's ahead of you, you need to adjust your speed accordingly."
I agree with you about the contingent of morons, though. I call them "Park Slope." -
Obamanut wrote: [quote=Garfunky][quote=Obamanut]
sun glare on that street at 7 - 8 am is ferocious.
How do you turn the corner of Carroll and 8th so fast that you run full on into someone crossing just 15-20 feet from the corner?
as far as "these people" -
i tend to think its a contingent of morons
regardless of whether they are the pedestrian biker driver or skater,
who simply dont give a damn if they cause dangerous situations.
(edit - its possible they are simply so STUPID that they are not aware that they are not the only person/bike/vehicle on the street)
The ONLY thing in the entire world thats of any import ,
is what THEY are doing at that instant.
It also explains the million posts about the tenth of a second
a stroller mom delayed someone.
I have seen, twice on Prospect Park West, drivers run straight into living things without even slowing down. Once it was a dog, and once it was a girl on a mountain bike. The drivers both had plenty of time to see the crossers, at least a block or two. Yet both times, the drivers ran into them full force. The weather was perfectly clear on both of those days, w/ no sun glare. Those are just two of the reasons I feel like people go into some sort of daze when they are behind the wheel.
As for sun glare (and driving in general), my credo is "If you can't see what's ahead of you, you need to adjust your speed accordingly."
I agree with you about the contingent of morons, though. I call them "Park Slope."
on ppw is not the same as facing east into the morning sun .
if one is objective and has ever driven on carroll at that hour particularly when alt side used to be in effect , one knows its very easy for an unprepared individual to be momentarily blinded.
that doesnt excuse racing around a corner or not immediately slowing down and stopping in general anytime you cant see a dang thing.
but it does provide an reasonable explanation for how someone MIGHT
manage to go 15 - 20 feet before being able to react. that is what you asked for yes ?
How do you turn the corner of Carroll and 8th so fast that you run full on into someone crossing just 15-20 feet from the corner? -
I am all for calming traffic, but StreetBlog has an agenda....
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ringrunner wrote: I am all for calming traffic, but StreetBlog has an agenda....
agree,
i also like the way people determined how fast the car had to be going based on the windshield, without any math or physics to back it up. -
They've already determined the driver should be hung from the nearest lamp post.
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cccc wrote: They've already determined the driver should be hung from the nearest lamp post.
and then hit by a hummer going 95mph to simulate the damage he caused. Clearly. -
Garfunky wrote:
You're right, it's silly to assume that the SUV was speeding, merely because the windshield was caved in by an impact. It's perfectly plausible that the pedestrian had just launched himself out of a cannon on the sidewalk directly into the slow-moving, safely-driven SUV's windshield. I have checked in with my High School math and physics teachers, both of whom support the sidewalk cannon scenario.
i also like the way people determined how fast the car had to be going based on the windshield, without any math or physics to back it up. -
Before you leap to sidewalk cannon, you must rule out aliens, and/or gravity surges.
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whynot_31 wrote: Before you leap to sidewalk cannon, you must rule out aliens, and/or gravity surges.
While I choose not to believe in aliens, it is very plausible that a shift in the Earth's magnetic poles caused the pedestrian to fly off the sidewalk, to accelerate to a speed of 70 MPH as he was pulled illegally into the crosswalk, and to illegally imapct, (with his skull) the windshield of a very slow-moving, extremely safely-driven SUV that was obeying all traffic laws.
Let us not rush to judgment and lynch these innocent victims of magnetic shifts!
Oh, and don't forget the bicyclists, who run red lights all the time. And those stroller mommies, who are very bitchy and think their kids own the world. And the mommies on bicycles, they're the worst. I'm not saying they all deserve to hurl themselves through windshields, but hey. -
I see this thread is still going strong.
So I was just out running some errands, and got a wonderful reminder of what it's like to be a pedestrian in this neighborhood sometimes.
Crossing Garfield (with the light), some guy heading northbound on 5th ave makes a hard left onto Garfield, right towards me. Fast enough that I'm half convinced he doesn't see me. Looking at him (the driver) directly, waving with my palms down (e.g. the universal "slow down") motion, he finally slows down, just short of me & another pedestrian.
Apparently, this pissed him off something but good, because he decides to stop and start cursing me out, threatening to get out of the car (and do what??)
Mind you, I had the light, this was the middle of the day with clear weather, and I did nothing more than subtly point out that the guy was driving like an ass (When you turn in a residential neighborhood, you slow down first & make a high-radius turn, you don't apex it at speed like you're on the track).
People complain all the time about reckless bikers, and what a menace they are. Call this one my complaint about reckless drivers. I'll take the bikers any day. -
A reckless biker is an annoyance. A reckless driver puts you in a pine box.
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im sorry you did not understand what i said.
i simply mean that stating the car
"must have been going 50 mph" is not necessarily correct.
have you ever seen the picture of the windshield that a dropped turkey went thru on the LIE a couple years back ?
i dunno how much a human head weighs in comparison to a turkey nor do i know if the man was thrown in to the air or spun head over heels and landed thus creating greater force (maybe you remember f=ma ?)
for all i know that size impact created at 10 mph,
so unless your some kind of expert who can show me some math
dont presume the driver was going 50 mph is all im saying.
obviously head meeting windshied is never good. -
swngnmonk wrote:
agree this makes little sense to me.
Apparently, this pissed him off something but good, because he decides to stop and start cursing me out, threatening to get out of the car (and do what??)
"i almost ran you down, so now im gonna kick your ass !!"
huh ????
yesterday i saw bicyclist at a green light . he was stopped though.
when the light changed and the cars on 5th ave got the green,
he immediately pulled out onto 5th ave and leisurely looped across
i could see the bewildered looks on the faces of the drivers and thought
hey
at least he's going the correct "one - way"
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Garfunky wrote: im sorry you did not understand what i said.
i simply mean that stating the car
"must have been going 50 mph" is not necessarily correct.
have you ever seen the picture of the windshield that a dropped turkey went thru on the LIE a couple years back ?
i dunno how much a human head weighs in comparison to a turkey nor do i know if the man was thrown in to the air or spun head over heels and landed thus creating greater force (maybe you remember f=ma ?)
for all i know that size impact created at 10 mph,
so unless your some kind of expert who can show me some math
dont presume the driver was going 50 mph is all im saying.
obviously head meeting windshied is never good.
Garfunky - you're forgetting - while the turkey was likely falling at a reasonable speed (I haven't had coffee yet, so digging up old newtonian physics isn't easy right now), the car was on the LIE, and likely going 55-75 mph. I'd hazard a guess that most of the damage was due to the speed of the car when it hit the turkey, not the speed of the turkey.
We can conduct an experiment - I'll hang a turkey from a light pole on some corner in the neighborhood, you hit it at 55mph. If that's too fast for you, I'm willing to settle for 35mph. -
And before my words are misconstrued - I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just trying to get everyone to slow down a bit. The cold and the lack of coffee have made me a little snarky.
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thats precisely the point.
i dont need to do the experiment,
(but think the police should)
i think your assumption of 55 - 75 reasonable
and that the turkeys momentum was likely minimal in comparison
the turkey went thru the windshield and the driver was nearly killed.
a HUGE concave hole with something of a crater wall remained.
so by comparison ,
insisting the park slope driver was going 50 mph
does not seem at all rational.
i think yet another eyewitness insisted it was 30.
others state the pedestrian to blame.
it should be obvious they cant all be right.
and i think im allowed to have the opinion that its better to remain objective and wait for the facts,
rather than to go get the picthforks and torches based on the "expertise" of clearly biased individuals.
i was ecstatic to see the cops giving out tickets to drivers yesterday.
ive biached at 78th a coupla times.i tend to think that more productive then merely debating said cars speed at head impact. -
MOD NOTE:
so we can continue this discussion without worry of being disrespectful of the man that was hit at Carroll and 8th Ave last week, this thread has been split.
Carry on. -
http://www.transalt.org/files/newsroom/magazine/2008/winter/12-14.pdf
http://www.transalt.org/campaigns/trafficjustice/resources
Some info and stat information here re: traffic justice campaign by transportation alternatives
Cannot speculate on the accident last week, but I think if you follow motor vehicle accidents involving pedestrians and cyclists at all in the paper, you cannot help but notice that often the driver doesn't receive any kind of summons unless they have been drinking. Obviously all accidents involving pedestrians cannot be the fault of the driver and all accidents are not the result of careless or negligent drivers, but some believe that when the driver is at fault because of speeding or careless driving, they often are not penalized in any way and that this is something that must change.
A friend's mother was recently killed by a driver while out for a walk (suburban New Jersey, not NYC) and the family asked the police department to reopen the case and issue a summons because the driver admitted on the accident report that she had not been paying attention at the time of the accident and was searching for her handheld cell phone device. Initially the police did not issue a summons to the driver. While this action by the family could not alleviate the loss of their mother, they were successful in their request and the police department did issue a summons for (I think) careless driving. The driver was fined and because of prior violations on her license, her license was also suspended for a year. Am offering this information because it may be helpful to families of accident victims in a similar situation. -
I drive for a living
, as alot of folks know, drivers is mostly at fault even if the stupid person walks against the light when cars are moving.
unless its a fast highway or street, than it would be harder for the driver to stop.
I have alot of times see people walk against the light even when I'm moving, they dont even bother to look. i have to break hard. funniest thing is they don't know how close they were close to death. they don't even look back or at the side to see. they just keep on walking. -
pedestrians and cyclists do a lot of stupid shit and don't pay attention much of the time.
but the ultimate responsibility to prevent a crash falls on the motorist.
the motorist is the one that is operating a ~2,000 lb piece of machinery that has the potential to kill someone.
I could jump into the middle of the street from a tree, suddenly quantum leap into the body of a hipster bicyclist riding the wrong way down the street in the raining dark, the driver has the responsibility not to hit me.
If you don't want that responsibility or don't like it, then don't drive. -
vidro3 wrote:
That sounds really cool. I would love to be able to do that.
I could jump into the middle of the street from a tree, suddenly quantum leap into the body of a hipster bicyclist riding the wrong way down the street in the raining dark, the driver has the responsibility not to hit me. -
vidro3 wrote: pedestrians and cyclists do a lot of stupid shit and don't pay attention much of the time.
You just reminded me of my drivers ed class (30 years ago, eek).
but the ultimate responsibility to prevent a crash falls on the motorist.
the motorist is the one that is operating a ~2,000 lb piece of machinery that has the potential to kill someone.
I could jump into the middle of the street from a tree, suddenly quantum leap into the body of a hipster bicyclist riding the wrong way down the street in the raining dark, the driver has the responsibility not to hit me.
If you don't want that responsibility or don't like it, then don't drive.
The example I remember the instructor giving was that if a blind, drunken man walked in front of your car on the Belt Parkway and you hit him, it was the your fault.
It does not make if ok to be an idiot pedestrian but if you are in control of more than 2.000 pounds of metal that can crush a human being you have to own up you your responsibilities. -
CNN
NEW YORK (CNN) -- A pedestrian was struck twice by vehicles in Queens and dragged for 17 miles by the second vehicle before police found him dead in Brooklyn, New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told reporters Wednesday.
The badly mangled body was discovered under a van after several passing motorists motioned the driver to pull over, Kelly said. Police had not identified the victim Wednesday evening, he said.
The first driver called 911 to report he thought he had struck a pedestrian but did not see anyone.
It turned out the second driver, in a van, had driven over the man, whose body became lodged under its chassis, according to police.
Kelly said that the van driver stopped at one point during the drive on New York City's highways and roads because he noticed the vehicle was not driving properly. But he failed to find anything unusual, Kelly said.
Police are retracing the route the van drove in attempt to find body parts, he said.
No charges have been filed, Kelly told reporters Wednesday afternoon.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/11/new.york.body.dragged/
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