Isabella: Life Deserved..545 Washington ave

MOD NOTE:

personal attack deleted. please play nice and don't make personal attacks, thanks.

Lo Kee I don't think you're a shithead. You don't have to agree with that article. I don't think the problem this speaker guy has is the way they're advertising their luxury apartments, it's the fact that they exist in this location at all.

If you're going to make luxury apartments anywhere, you're going to come up with lame slogans like "Life Deserved" to market your luxury apartments. Otherwise what's the point? If you're going to eat a hot dog you might as well smother it in ketchup and mustard and relish and chili beans and mayonnaise. It's a hot dog.

I think people moving into a neighborhood ought to show respect and appreciation for those who had been living there before them. Support old businesses, get to know your neighbors. Volunteer. Pitch in.

But I also think that there are economic realities that create gentrification in a capitalist society, and that's why neighborhoods, in Brooklyn and everywhere else, ebb and flow and change colors. I harbor no resentment towards Isabella, fugly as it is. I hope they bring tenants who appreciate the neighborhood while bringing about positive changes.

st jameson wrote: Lo Kee I don't think you're a shithead. You don't have to agree with that article. I don't think the problem this speaker guy has is the way they're advertising their luxury apartments, it's the fact that they exist in this location at all.

If you're going to make luxury apartments anywhere, you're going to come up with lame slogans like "Life Deserved" to market your luxury apartments. Otherwise what's the point? If you're going to eat a hot dog you might as well smother it in ketchup and mustard and relish and chili beans and mayonnaise. It's a hot dog.

I think people moving into a neighborhood ought to show respect and appreciation for those who had been living there before them. Support old businesses, get to know your neighbors. Volunteer. Pitch in.

But I also think that there are economic realities that create gentrification in a capitalist society, and that's why neighborhoods, in Brooklyn and everywhere else, ebb and flow and change colors. I harbor no resentment towards Isabella, fugly as it is. I hope they bring tenants who appreciate the neighborhood while bringing about positive changes.

I might have been with you, but I can't support your heretical position advocating the putting of ketchup on hot dogs.

usually every thread, no matter what the topic, turns into talk of race and gentrification.

This one began as gentrification, and now turns to hotdogs.

There is hope.

....maybe turning every thread into talk of hotdogs and bacon is the way to go.

I confess to a liking of ketchup sandwiches. Sometimes on pumpernickel when I can afford it.

Ketchup and newspaper, my favorite!

st jameson wrote: The thing is, I don't even like ketchup on my hot dogs. I just wanted to take the metaphor over the top.

It's too late, the damage is done.

You'd been better off if you mentioned strollers.

quick, pro-hotdog forces! there is an emergency at the Underhill playground. get to the other thread

While obviously most condo marketing in noxious, I find it hard to find fault with the Isabella which was built on the site of a parking lot - a parking lot of the neighboring condo in the old seminary at the corner. And many of the new projects on Washington were built on vacant or seriously degraded property. Pratt Area Council's mixed income project replaced an unfortunately abandoned mansion - the rental across the street replaced a very beat up singel house which was part of a church, I believe. Washinton Avenue in Prospect Heights was seriously damaged in riots (i have heard) in the 60s. Unless one proposes that rich people (or richer people) or white people (or less blacker people) somehow can't be allowed to move into poorer neighborhoods or traditionally african american neighborhoods, I can't see the intellectual basis for the good doctor's argument.

I am from New England. And I proudly put ketchup on my hotdogs. As did my mother before me, and as does my son.

BoogieKnight wrote:

Anyone older than six who puts ketchup on a hot dog is stupid. Or from New England. What's with New England?

Anyone that puts mustard on a hot dog is stupid. No age limit.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Carnivore wrote: [quote=Em26][quote=BoogieKnight]

Anyone older than six who puts ketchup on a hot dog is stupid. Or from New England. What's with New England?

Anyone that puts mustard on a hot dog is stupid. No age limit.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
The National Hot Dog and Sausage Council would beg to differ.


Well , the Ketchup Association Of All Things Ketchup said that putting ketchup on a hot dog is a delicacy that can only be enjoyed by people of sound mind and good taste.

Em26 wrote: Well , the Ketchup Association Of All Things Ketchup said that putting ketchup on a hot dog is a delicacy that can only be enjoyed by people of sound mind and good taste.

Your made-up organization consisting of you alone has no weight here.

Carnivore wrote: [quote=Em26]Well , the Ketchup Association Of All Things Ketchup said that putting ketchup on a hot dog is a delicacy that can only be enjoyed by people of sound mind and good taste.

Your made-up organization consisting of you alone has no weight here.

Hey we got freakin' brochures , man.Yeah.....color ones. 8-[

Wow, what a thread. First, I've worked and saved quite a long time and watched in amazement during the housing run up, while people were buying condos at $600 to 800k, with little or no money down. With a traditional framework of 20-30% down, I could never get the numbers to work for me. Now that the market has dropped, I can afford a wider range with the same 20-30% down. I feel bad for folks who bought with little or nothing down, with sub-prime mortgages, or who been squeezed in the downturn.

I don't feel at all bad for developers who were counting on the unrealistic run up to last indefinitely, and are now left holding the proverbial bag of luxury condos going unsold.

With the new market driven reality, I looked at the Isabella.
Curious marketing for sure...but the building, while somewhat out of scale with the neighborhood, isn't horrible at all. The apartments are actually very nice, given similarly priced condos on the market. IMHO, much better finishes and construction than what I've seen in new construction/similarly sized buildings on Myrtle and Dekalb.
Problem with the Isabella condos is that are way overpriced--and will, one way or another be forced to deal with the new market reality. Generally, I think the new occupants, whether new residents, neighborhood folk who can afford lower prices, renters, section 8 or homeless will be good for the area. Change happens, and we deal. Some still lament the loss of vinyl and 8-track, and with good cause in some cases. Polyester pants, playboys and beavers are still the s**t in some sectors. But that's the thing about capitalism---most of us don't mind enjoying the benefits of it when it rolls our way, but then we bitch about it when it takes advantage of us. Another thing going against the Isabella from my point of view is the Church. While I applaud an assembly of collective spirituality---I hate being bullied by it. By that I mean, I hate being trapped by their double parked cars. You'd think concern for fellow man, in and out of church would prevail. But rather than fight the powers that be, I just wouldn't buy over there, even I thought it was worth it. And so, I've used my economic choice to make a statement about the Isabella, in much the same way that the market often chooses against my interests.

Kudos to Dr. Mark Naison for a well written narrative. I'll have to make it a point to read some of his other work. As a longtime lefty, I agree with many of the issues he raises. However, the basis for his missive on the Isabella and its implication, in my view, is flawed.

Gentrification and capitalism, is not a zero sum game. There are gains and losses. The ebb and flow, into and out communities and class, is not as exact or precise as equating the Isabella ad slogan with "epitomizes the arrogance and insensitivity of the economic elites whose reckless financial practices have brought the world to the brink of economic disaster". More than just a tad of an overreach.

If that notion were the case, whenever the words, "home of the brave, land of the free" were uttered, we'd all vomit and then move to a socialist country given how this country was founded, and how it has wielded foreign policy. Truth be told, we all accept a measure of inequality and corruption because we're as imperfect as capitalism is. For instance, how many of you out there buy bootleg videos, or have already seen Wovlerine, without remorse for the rip off of intellectual creativity and property?

If we aspire to the purest form of our higher selves, we try to make a contribution to a society that seeks to be inclusive. When we fail on occasion, we don't don't beat ourselves up. As long as we're not reprobate assholes on a daily basis, we can sleep at night. I for one, was gratified that I could finally afford to buy an apartment at the Isabella, even though i decided not to. Further, I also noticed many other discriminating shoppers, some who live in the Clinton Hill and surrounding areas making similar choices. That this could happen reflects as much the progress thats been made, as the fact that crack is being pushed farther to the fringe. Sure, it'd be great to still have some of the old shops and stores, but as consumers we still have choices about what we decide to support. Ultimately, we also have choose the price of our own comfort level.And I don't think change necessarily means all culture is lost, unless folk are patently uncomfortable with who they are.

For instance, I will hope Dr. Naison can continue to voice his well intentioned views without having to explain why he's teaching at Fordham, rather than say Medgar Evers. I don't think teaching in the tony environment of the Rose Hill or Lincoln Center campus can rob one of being conscious, any more than a slogan such as "Live Magnificently" automatically only applies to the already wealthy, while excluding those who aspire to own their first home.