Old Stone House's new field is not for you
Subject: Old Stone House's new field is not for you
From:http://onlytheblogknowsbrooklyn.typepad.com/only_the_blog_knows_brook/2009/05/disappointment-about-limited-usage-of-washington-park-turf-field.html
Disappointment About Limited Usage of New Turf Field
This is the story of a new turf field in Park Slope primarily designated for team sport usage. It seems that some community members are dismayed at how little time is allotted for free use by the community. A concerned citizen took the matter to the Parks Department and change may be afoot.
Yesterday I got an email from Judy Schneier, the aforementioned "concerned citizen" and Park Slope resident, who is disappointed that the lovely new turf field in Washington Park (between 3rd and 4th Streets near Fourth Avenue) is a "permitted field."
That means that those who want to use the field must get a permit from the Park Department. According to Kim Maier, Director of the Old Stone House "there are set community hours for the Washington Park ball field from 8-10 am on Saturday and 4-6 pm on Sunday. The rest of the time, permitted games/groups will have precedence," she told me.
The permitting requirement begins next week. Schneier writes;
Next week we understand the field will be permitted up all the time save 4 hours of community use. We want to keep this from happening. Kids and families are using the field like crazy. Why should 95% of the time be for teams? Where was the consult with the community before such a decision was reached? It may be that we were better off with the old cracked blacktop which we were at least allowed to use.
Yesterday Schneier wrote to say that she got in touch with the Parks Department and spoke with a Mr. Greene and a Mr Martin Maher over there. They confirmed that the field is to be permitted and told her that it was built for that purpose.
When I asked about community time Mr. Maher said they had permitted some of that too but didn't know how much. My request of 50% was way out of the realm of possibility according to him. Kim Maier, who runs the Old Stone House, had told me that community time was four hours a week and I believe her. I told him parents were furious about losing the field for free child and family play. I told him we were getting petitions together and would fight for the play space. We said goodbye and an hour later Mr. Greene called me back. It seemed he and Mr.Maher had spoken and Mr. Greene said he also spoken to the Commissioner. He told me that actually 50% was probably doable since most of the league play was on the weekend. Afterschool time may be open to the community. I asked if he could put that in writing and he told me that these discussions were just beginning and nothing was decided. He said he'd get back to me.
Ms. Schneier believes that the next step is to circulate petitions and make a reasonable proposal. She plans to reach out to Craig Hammeman, District Manager of Community Board 6 and City Council member Bill deBlasio.
She says that when she mentions this to other parents, many are very upset that the field "is to be taken away and they want as much community time as possible. Most people seem to think 50% is a reasonable compromise."
I realize most team play is on the weekend though of course families are also around then. I don't feel we can be rigid, we just have to see that free play time is a big part of the plan
Comments
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Umm, what? isn't the playground enough area for people and kids? I don't understand why they need the entire field also, before they put down the artificial turf, people did not hang out there. With all the kids and strollers being used all over that turf, it is going to be ruined in no time for ball playing which is what it was intended for. I don't understand why the rest of the park can't be used for "family time" and "community use'.
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I agree. Either use the playground or walk up to PP if you want more room.
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I'm with LTS and eggcream on this one. There are not a lot of places that team sports can be played. There are a lot of playground options for kids.
I hate this concept that everyone has to be treated exactly the same or it is evidence of some vast conspiracy. The field is for sports teams to use. Let them use it. -
I could care less about being able to use the space for little kid's play - I agree, there are plenty of spaces for them - I'm more concerned with having the field available for pickup games, playing catch or kicking a soccer ball around. I live directly across the street - why should I have to walk up to Prospect Park if I want to have a catch with my roommate after work? I could do so just fine in the past when it was asphalt - before they spent millions of dollars changing it - did that money go towards making it virtually impossible for me to use a park that I can see from my window?
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LongTimeSloper wrote: Umm, what? isn't the playground enough area for people and kids? I don't understand why they need the entire field also, before they put down the artificial turf, people did not hang out there. With all the kids and strollers being used all over that turf, it is going to be ruined in no time for ball playing which is what it was intended for. I don't understand why the rest of the park can't be used for "family time" and "community use'.
Before they put the turf down NO ONE hung out there. I don't think the request is unreasonable. I think letting kids play on an open space for more than 4 hours a week is a good thing. As both a parent and someone who is looking forward to some organized team sports, I can see that a middle ground can be reached.
Your arguement that "strollers being used all over the turf" is a bit far fetched. Do you think there are actually stroller derbies being held? Short of that, I'm not sure how pushing a stroller on the turf is going to ruin the field. Any strollers on that turf are going to do less damage than team sports are going to do. -
No, I don't think there will be stroller derbies, but, there will be tons of strollers pushed along that turf and you know eventually, parents will be allowing their kids to use their scooters and skateboards there even though it is specifically not allowed. As for open space, there is an entire playground there for the kids! Big, big playground and plenty of other space there for the kids, why do they need to use the one area set aside for team sports?
There are a lot less places for team sports around than there are for kids to run around in. As it is, it is difficult to get a permit to play ball in Prospect park, having these fields could be a great thing for organized sports. -
besus wrote: [quote=LongTimeSloper]Umm, what? isn't the playground enough area for people and kids? I don't understand why they need the entire field also, before they put down the artificial turf, people did not hang out there. With all the kids and strollers being used all over that turf, it is going to be ruined in no time for ball playing which is what it was intended for. I don't understand why the rest of the park can't be used for "family time" and "community use'.
Before they put the turf down NO ONE hung out there. I don't think the request is unreasonable. I think letting kids play on an open space for more than 4 hours a week is a good thing. As both a parent and someone who is looking forward to some organized team sports, I can see that a middle ground can be reached.
Your arguement that "strollers being used all over the turf" is a bit far fetched. Do you think there are actually stroller derbies being held? Short of that, I'm not sure how pushing a stroller on the turf is going to ruin the field. Any strollers on that turf are going to do less damage than team sports are going to do.
And, before they put turf down, softball games were played there, so, it was used. -
Areas designed for sports activities should be reserved for sports activities. Playgrounds should be reserved for play.
30 year old baseball players shouldn't swing bats in the sandbox and strollers shouldn't roll on the sports field. -
It is used so much more, but lots of groups, now that the turf is down (plus lots of other reno's to the whole park). And like PP, it's covered in litter after the weekends.
From the looks of it, it will mostly be free during weekdays (maybe less so once school is out?)--the few folks out there during weekdays are parents and kids. Evenings and weekends, a mixture. -
My goodness, kids over 5 in this city have such a phenomenally hard time getting access to sports. Let them use the friggin' astroturf.
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A phenomenally hard time getting access to sports?
where?
there is a league in this city for kids of every age for every sport imaginable, just sign your kid up!
Football, baseball, hockey, you name it! How is it hard for them?? -
Yes, but it is extremely hard to teams to get permits for field. The reality is that organizations/teams that are willing to pay for permits get 1st preference over smaller leagues, pickup games, less popular sports (like lacrosse). Therefore, if a group of friends want to get together for a less competitive pickup soccer match, or a new kids league starts finding a playing field and getting a permit is really hard. Adults can get permits easily simply by kicking in $10-$20 per person per game to assure that they can get a permit. The same isn't true of youth leagues, especially after you take into account the cost of supplying equipment, insurance, umpires/referees, uniforms, etc.
As a result, a lot of youth leagues are limited in the number of kids they can serve. Many leagues have hard caps on the number of kids that can participate, and often have waiting lists or limited numbers of spots. Its not as easy as some people may think. -
As a parent of over 20 years in this neighborhood I have never ever seen a league with a waiting list or a kid turned away from a league due to it being overcrowded. My kids have played football, baseball, soccer, hockey, etc. (and still do), and have never had a problem around here. Maybe we are just lucky, but I also have never heard of any friend's kids being turned away.
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i thought people would be interested in this:
There will be a community meeting with Brooklyn Park's Commissioner Julius
Spiegel on Tuesday 6/9 at the Old Stone House to discuss issues pertaining to
Washington park. Currently, there will be 4 hours of non-permitted time allotted
to the community. Again, if you want to sign the petition for a more equal share
of open community time for the park, the link is here:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/atfcommun/index.html
Following is the information about the meeting:
Join Us!
Community Meeting Regarding Washington Park Field
with Brooklyn Park's Commissioner Julius Spiegel
Tuesday, June 9
6:00 PM
Old Stone House of Brooklyn
JJ Byrne Playround/Washington Park
3rd Street bet. 4th and 5th Avenues
Followed by
Friends of Washington Park Meeting
Tuesday, June 9, 2009
7:30 PM
Meet your neighbors and discuss your common interests for the betterment of
Washington Park - safety, recreation, gardening and programming. A strong
Friends of Washington Park organization makes a better park for all! -
LongTimeSloper wrote: As a parent of over 20 years in this neighborhood I have never ever seen a league with a waiting list or a kid turned away from a league due to it being overcrowded. My kids have played football, baseball, soccer, hockey, etc. (and still do), and have never had a problem around here. Maybe we are just lucky, but I also have never heard of any friend's kids being turned away.
My kid plays AYSO over at the parade grounds. They always have a waiting list, especially in the fall. I personally know of a couple of kids that couldn't make it on to teams as well as another parent who was told that his kid could play if the parent was willing to coach the team because they didn't have any other coaches. In fact their program is so popular that registration closes in July for a season that starts in September.
I don't say this as a knock on AYSO, but just a recognition that the program is popular and draws kids from all over Brooklyn, not just PS. And its not just soccer. The little league my son plays in started turning away kids 2 weeks prior to opening day in certain divisions.
I've dealt with the parks department and they are loathe to give permits to leagues to play on fields that are outside of their catchment area, so for example, teams in PS can get permits for Prospect Park and the parade grounds which have a large number of fields, but they couldn't get a permit for the Red Hook Ballfields, even if they had so many kids playing that they needed the additional space to play. Ask any youth sports league director and they will tell you that the biggest hurdle in the city is playing fields and meeting the demand that they have. -
Guess i have been lucky, my kids have never played for AYSO, but have played for the st. Francis soccer leagues and the 78th precinct soccer and baseball leagues and have never had problems.
But, either way, taking away permit times at permit fields is not going to help this issue, I still say, leave the turf ballfield as a permit field!!!
oh, and also, are we sure why the kids are being turned away? years ago when one of my older kids played ball fro the St. francis little league, the problem was not enough volunteers who would coach teams, not permits. maybe more people need to get out there and coach a team or two
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As someone who runs a soccer league i can only hope the field is kept permit only.
It is almost impossible for Adult teams to get field times at any field of the city.
Little league, High schools, colleges, Non for profits and whatnot get preferential treatment, as they should.
But having to compete with parents who want to take their kids for a stroll as well....
There is plenty of playgrounds, parks, open spaces etc.
But there are few and fewer ballfields every year. -
As someone who runs a soccer league i can only hope the field is kept permit only.
It is almost impossible for Adult teams to get field times at any field of the city.
Little league, High schools, colleges, Non for profits and whatnot get preferential treatment, as they should.
But having to compete with parents who want to take their kids for a stroll as well....
There is plenty of playgrounds, parks, open spaces etc.
But there are few and fewer ballfields every year. -
kaiserkai wrote: As someone who runs a soccer league i can only hope the field is kept permit only.
yep! i totally agree! That is why i will be at the meeting next week and you should be also!
It is almost impossible for Adult teams to get field times at any field of the city.
Little league, High schools, colleges, Non for profits and whatnot get preferential treatment, as they should.
But having to compete with parents who want to take their kids for a stroll as well....
There is plenty of playgrounds, parks, open spaces etc.
But there are few and fewer ballfields every year. -
kaiserkai wrote: As someone who runs a soccer league i can only hope the field is kept permit only.
yep! i totally agree! That is why i will be at the meeting next week and you should be also!
It is almost impossible for Adult teams to get field times at any field of the city.
Little league, High schools, colleges, Non for profits and whatnot get preferential treatment, as they should.
But having to compete with parents who want to take their kids for a stroll as well....
There is plenty of playgrounds, parks, open spaces etc.
But there are few and fewer ballfields every year. -
Whine, whine, whine.
Today the little leaguers sponsored by the 78th Precinct had all four corners of the field cooking. Lots of kids and their parents, having fun.
The way it should be. Not a sad eye in the group.
It's a choice field for the permitees. They should have most of it. I want to see if I can hit the Old Stone House on the fly when I'm up at bat. -
All I know is that my son came home from Little League (78th Precinct) and said it was really great playing on that new surface.
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78th Precinct is having Little League games at the new Washington Park turf field?
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LongTimeSloper wrote: 78th Precinct is having Little League games at the new Washington Park turf field?
Only for the 5-8 year olds. -
This was posted on Park Slope Parents tonight...
Posted by: "xxxxxxxx"
Tue Jun 9, 2009 6:15 pm (PDT)
Tonight we met at the Old Stone House with representatives from the Dept. of Parks and Recreation including the Brooklyn borough Parks Commissioner Julius Spiegel. We presented the petitions to him (we had somewhere between 200-300 signatures - Judy Schneier has the exact number), but in fact the outcome was mainly shaped by the views of the people who attended the meeting, as he didn't have time to read the petitions when we put forth our views. We asked for a more equitable share of open "community" time for the astroturf rather than just 4 hours/week, as had been allocated to the community by the Parks Department (plus any times which are not permitted).
There appeared to me to be quite a few members of sports teams there - both adult and child leagues, including the director of the 78th Precinct Youth Council. They generally argued on the side of wanting the park to be used for team sports. The commissioner and others from the parks stated that the intent of the park was always to be used as a baseball or sports field, and it was built with that in mind. They state there is great demand city-wide for such sports field. I am sure this is true, but the "hidden demand" by those who would use it for other needs was not as well represented tonight in my view.
We made it clear that we support team sports and are not arguing against the use of the field for that purpose some of the time. Mainly, we were advocating for a good share of time for use for free or unstructured play. Some said that this would be potentially dangerous because adults and big kids would be throwing balls that could hurt smaller children. There have been accidents in other parks. We also argued that they are putting too much value on organized sports over free play. The Commissioner said that there are other park spaces for free play, but I said there is nowhere right in this neighborhood. Clearly space is at a premium in NYC; it's just not clear that the process most equitably represents all the interests of people who want to use the field. It's not just about "efficiency" (getting the most people on the field in one day); it's also about access for people who don't have permits and fostering diverse types of play.
In the end, the Parks officials attempted to reach of consensus of the present parties (again, I felt that advocates for the unstructured play part were not as well represented). We agreed that an organization of families and children (under 18) would apply for permits for the following blocks of time and the rest of the time will be allocated to permitted activities.
Fridays - 3-8 pm
Saturdays - 5-8 pm
Sundays - 5-8 pm
This is an improvement over the original proposal of 4 community hours/week (which would have been 8-10 AM on Satudays, and 4-6 pm on Sundays). Given that it is what it is, we will need to apply for the permits, and then "enforce" these permits during those hours. This means that if a group of adults come during that time to play baseball for example, we will have the right to push them out in favor of children and families who are doing "free play." We are going to form an association and then request these times that they have allotted to us. We have an offer of help from Bill DeBlasio's office to help promote use of community use of the turf field during those times.
The Parks Department has a two-year plan to renovate the front end of Washington Park, and that plan - which is still in process - may include some open space for free play. When that opens, the above arrangement for the astroturf may be modified.
Please let me know if you want to be part of our "community organization" for family/child freeplay in the park during the above hours. We can form a list or possibly associate with the "Neighbors of Washington Park" to regulate the times for which we are permitted.
xxxxxxxxx, mom to xxxxx & xxxxxxxx who love team sports as well as free play -
Ridiculous...how anyone could claim there is not enough park space in the neighborhood for "free play" is beyond me. I can't believe the person that said that wasn't laughed off the microphone.
The funny thing is that there is no doubt that in a few years(once little Jacob/Tyler/Alexis/Madison gets older) the same people that screamed for more "free play" time will be screaming that there is not enough time for little league teams to play. -
My favorite part was this:
The Commissioner said that there are other park spaces for free play, but I said there is nowhere right in this neighborhood.
Is she kidding me? Just walk up to Prospect Park and you'll have more than enough room for "free play".
And scottb2k, I completely agree with you that they will be the ones arguing in a few years from now that there's not enough time for the little league teams. -
I happen to personally know the woman who made the above post, and just so you know, she has a child who does play Little League already.
And, yes, that comment about there being no free space in this neighborhood is outrageous! I mean, what is prospect Park? yes, it might not be directly across the street from her, but it is most certainly in the neighborhood. i was going to make a post in rebuttal to hers, but not sure I want the drama, our kids know each other. -
LongTimeSloper wrote: I happen to personally know the woman who made the above post, and just so you know, she has a child who does play Little League already.
My statment wasn't necessarily aimed at just her, but her having kids that play makes her statement all the more odd to me....whatever.
And, yes, that comment about there being no free space in this neighborhood is outrageous! I mean, what is prospect Park? yes, it might not be directly across the street from her, but it is most certainly in the neighborhood. i was going to make a post in rebuttal to hers, but not sure I want the drama, our kids know each other.
It's not worth it though to argue with her. The one truth about the internet is that posting/arguing on message boards never changes anyones mind so there's no reason to disturb your kids realtionship with her kids.
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