airplane noise
I'm new to the neighborhood - I cannot find anyone that finds the airplane noise an issue or a problem. I have airplanes flying low and loud over my house every two minutes almost all the day, on their way to La Guardia. It this normal? Does anybody else notice the noise? What do you do about it?
Comments
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Subject: The plane, the plane...
The planes were here when my parents grew up here.
The planes were here before I came along.
The planes will be here when I leave.
PS is straight-line to one of LGA's runways. Runway 13 to be precise.
Sometimes they fly a little low in bad weather.
It could be worse - Elmhurst, Jackson Heights, Flushing come to mind for
LGA. Of course, so does Rikers Island.
It's not like we're living in the Shea Stadium parking lot.
Live with it. -
I remember way back in the late '70's and early '80's when JFK traffic was re-routed over Park Slope. Mostly when the weather was bad. We would have old 707's and DC-8's and VC-10's along with older 747's skim our rooftops. It makes today's LGA approach sound like rustling leaves. And we didn't complain! And we liked it! Why you! I oughtta.................
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I've never even noticed noise from the airplanes, although when i'm in the park I always seem to get passed over by a shadow from a plane or two. I used to live in Long Beach, which is right in the flight path for JFK. The planes fly much, much lower over there - you can easily see their landing gear extended, and you sometimmes have to pause your conversation as they pass overhead. Once, a body fell from the sky when the plane extended it's landing gear - a man had stowed away in the wheelhouse and froze to death during the flight. The body landed a few blocks from my house.
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You kind of get used to it, it doesn't really bother me anymore.
The noise, that is, not bodies. -
Subject: true, but....
Certainly there are neighborhoods that are worse in NY, but it's hard to find $2500+/month lofts in Flushing (or $1.5+mil. sales). I would have that the noise and frequency of it, especially in those areas right beside the park, would affect property values, rental values, etc.... Noise pollution is not talked about at all - what is the effect of this noise long term? Everyone is talking about street noise effects of closing the park traffic - I'm thinking, what about the planes overhead every two minutes that everyone has tuned out? -
Drano wrote: You kind of get used to it, it doesn't really bother me anymore.
Nah! You get used to the bodies also.
The noise, that is, not bodies. -
Subject: Re: true, but....
theodore_sad wrote: Certainly there are neighborhoods that are worse in NY, but it's hard to find $2500+/month lofts in Flushing (or $1.5+mil. sales). I would have that the noise and frequency of it, especially in those areas right beside the park, would affect property values, rental values, etc.... Noise pollution is not talked about at all - what is the effect of this noise long term? Everyone is talking about street noise effects of closing the park traffic - I'm thinking, what about the planes overhead every two minutes that everyone has tuned out?
I've lived in Park Slope both near the park and farther away from the park. It was never a matter of tuning out for me. I scarcely ever noticed the planes to begin with. Sometimes, occasionally, I'll notice one when I'm in the park or my backyard, but effects? Seriously? I can't imagine they're loud enough for that -- less so, in my experience, than the rest of the ambient city noise, from street traffic to other people. -
Subject: Airplanes
Since 9/11, I look up at these planes every time, because they fly so low it looks and sounds like they're coming down. Especially since Park Slope had one ot the worst airliners crashes, you'd think people would be more up in arms with the FAA.
These damn jets fly directly over the Williamsburg Savings Bank Building, the tallest building in Brooklyn. When you drive up Fourth or Third Avenue at night, you can see a string of jumbo jets lined up in the sky over head, their landing lights pointing directly at your windshield.
Why can't these crates fly over the harbor on their merry way to LaGuardia? Or at least fly a bit higher so you can't read the article on Page B34 of the Times that the passenger in seat A3 is reading... -
Subject: Re: Airplanes
Korla Pundit wrote: Or at least fly a bit higher so you can't read the article on Page B34 of the Times that the passenger in seat A3 is reading...
Just think how much you save on a yearly Times Subscription reading over seat B34s shoulder. -
Subject: Re: airplane noise
theodore_sad wrote: I'm new to the neighborhood - I cannot find anyone that finds the airplane noise an issue or a problem. I have airplanes flying low and loud over my house every two minutes almost all the day, on their way to La Guardia. It this normal? Does anybody else notice the noise? What do you do about it?
...and when they flush the tiolet when they're over my house, yuuck... -
Subject: Plane noise
after Sept. 11th, the fighter jets were circling non-stop and making my windows rattle. I kept thinking that "this was it" (picture Redd Foxx holding his chest and saying "I'm coming, Elizabeth"). Finally, I just thought "screw it, at least I'll be asleep" and now the noise doesn't bother me at all. I can hear it, but I don't even think about it any more -
Yeah, after 9/11 the sound of planes made me very nervous for a few months (cue 'O Superman'...). But I gradually got back to my usual feeling, which is that I actually like seeing and hearing planes. Travel! Excitement! Going places! Which I hardly ever get to do.
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I've lived around 8th & Carroll / 8th & President for 4 years and have occaisionally noticed the jet noise. As another poster said, it's never been extraordinarily loud and is usually limited to the (slightly troubling) whine that makes the plane sound like it's crashing. Most of the time, however, the planes pass without making much noise at all. I grew up 2 miles from a business airport in Florida... now let me tell you, those small jets make a LOT of noise...
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Subject: Re: Airplanes
Korla Pundit wrote: Since 9/11, I look up at these planes every time, because they fly so low it looks and sounds like they're coming down. Especially since Park Slope had one ot the worst airliners crashes, you'd think people would be more up in arms with the FAA.
didn't the plane that fell into park slope actually hit the other plane over staten island somewhere? i think that's right, and if it is, then it has nothing to do with the flight paths that go over the slope now.
Why can't these crates fly over the harbor on their merry way to LaGuardia? Or at least fly a bit higher so you can't read the article on Page B34 of the Times that the passenger in seat A3 is reading...
i live in crow hill, which i think means these planes are lower by the time they get directly over my place (which they do, in a neat little line), and it's just not that loud compared to other city noise. it's certainly much quieter than my grandmother's house in san diego was, where we had to stop talking everytime a plane went overhead. for that matter, they bother me less than the little prop jobbies that wandered over my pastoral childhood home when the guy flying up for the football game had to go low to look for the road in order to find the airport.
also, my understanding is that, by the time they're going over your house and mine, they've already been over the harbor. and that they're low because they're landing. i like a gradual landing myself, rather than an abrupt plummet. -
Here's what I told myself a lot after 9/11 when the planes used to make me jump every time: because of the doppler effect, if the musical pitch is getting lower, that means the plane is moving away from you (which by the time you hear it, it always is).
Last night the planes were loud enough that I couldn't hear the TV when they were overhead; we had our windows closed too. -
Subject: Re: Airplanes
Korla Pundit wrote: Since 9/11, I look up at these planes every time, because they fly so low it looks and sounds like they're coming down. Especially since Park Slope had one ot the worst airliners crashes, you'd think people would be more up in arms with the FAA.
Actually, the collision happened near the Statue of Liberty over the East river. A United DC-8 smacked into Sterling and 7th ave and the TWA Connie crashed into a ball field in Staten Island. If you go to http://www4.passur.com/lga.html you'll see that the aircraft are 3,000ft above the Slope when they're doing the final to runway 4, higher when landing on runway 31. I.E. it's an airport located in te middle of NYC that cannot move or be expanded and its runways affect three boroughs.
These damn jets fly directly over the Williamsburg Savings Bank Building, the tallest building in Brooklyn. When you drive up Fourth or Third Avenue at night, you can see a string of jumbo jets lined up in the sky over head, their landing lights pointing directly at your windshield.
Why can't these crates fly over the harbor on their merry way to LaGuardia? Or at least fly a bit higher so you can't read the article on Page B34 of the Times that the passenger in seat A3 is reading... -
contact arlene bronzaft in queens. she is the queen of airplane noise battles. google her.
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You folks are not seeing the upside! When you fly into LGA, you can try to pick out your building when you fly over the park. I did it last time, my daughter got a kick out of it.
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Drano wrote: You folks are not seeing the upside! When you fly into LGA, you can try to pick out your building when you fly over the park. I did it last time, my daughter got a kick out of it.
Oh yeah I love that! -
i think it really depends where you live in park slope and surrounding area... i live in the top floor of an old building, i.e. w/o much sound protection, and it's probably worse than those on the ground floor or middle floor brownstones.
thanks to communitybuilder for the reference to arlene bronzaft. with a little research you can see that the planes over park slope - (2200-2800) ft. in elevation (LGA runway 4 is the only one affecting PKslope) - can come in over the 55 and 65 decibel levels for noise - at these levels, at consistent intervals throughout the day, you do have 'noise pollution' and 'noise pollution effects' including pregnancy and child development effects... not good for a neighborhood like park slope.
not trying to be alarmist, but i do wonder why everybody says it is not an issue. i mean, if you have to turn the TV up or the music on, it's affecting you.
guess i should move to a ground floor
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part of what makes me squeemish about this conversation is the knowledge that those planes have to fly low over someone's house; they're landing. and if PS makes lots of fuss and gets the flight path changed somehow, that doesn't mean no one's ears and babies and etc. will be effected. and i suspect that if such a thing did come to pass, the new ears and babies would have much less money. and it's just gross to think that extra noise is another punishment for kids who didn't manage to be born into money.
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Well, don't worry too much, I doubt the flight path will be changing any time soon.
Just a matter of what bothers people I guess. I find trucks, car alarms and some of my neighbors (yeah, just slam that door every time jackass, and then act indignant when I pay you a little visit) a lot more annoying. -
theodore_sad wrote: i think it really depends where you live in park slope and surrounding area... not trying to be alarmist, but i do wonder why everybody says it is not an issue. i mean, if you have to turn the TV up or the music on, it's affecting you.
I guess it does matter where you live, because I can honestly say I have never had to turn up my TV, radio, etc., because of planes. (Helicopters, they're another story.) When I lived near the park it was on the ground floor -- maybe it's worse near the park?
guess i should move to a ground floor -
linusvanpelt wrote: [quote=theodore_sad]i think it really depends where you live in park slope and surrounding area... not trying to be alarmist, but i do wonder why everybody says it is not an issue. i mean, if you have to turn the TV up or the music on, it's affecting you.
I guess it does matter where you live, because I can honestly say I have never had to turn up my TV, radio, etc., because of planes. (Helicopters, they're another story.) When I lived near the park it was on the ground floor -- maybe it's worse near the park?
guess i should move to a ground floor
Agreed. I used to live in the Bronx, and the airplane noise was way worse there, but in terms of volume and frequency. I couldn't turn my TV up loud enough to hear it when a plane was going directly overhead.
I can't say I miss that!
Not to say that it isn't a problem just because there are places that are worse, but I really haven't even noticed the planes before this thread (or after). The level of noise really isn't much above background level for New York (at least on my side of Flatbush- I can't speak for PS). -
Subject: noise
just wondering if theodore_sad has adjusted to the noise?
just moved to crown heights where the planes are even lower and i am wondering if i will really get used to this.
i know it's ny, but i moved from a very loud congested part of lower manhatten (after 25 years) partially because of the increased noise levels, so i am a bit sensitive to it. -
Subject: Increased Air Traffic Over Park Slope since August 1, 2008
Since the original post by Theodore, things have gotten progessively worse. Yes, as some posters have written, planes have always been here. I have been here since 1973. However, I must say I never remember Park Slope having this insane amount of low flying aircraft flying, in some cases, 7days in row at the rate of 1 per minue from 6Am until midnight and 2AM.
There are reasons for the increase. The Federal Regulations that regulated the number of flights have been allowed to expire under the Bush Administaion. Since this Administration believes that all government regulagtion is bad and only private enterprise can save us, it comes as no surprise that pro buisnees FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) appointees have redesigned the air space to the benefit of airline profitability.
This Redesign of the Air Space is being challenged by Senator Dodd of Connecticut and several grass roots organizations such as NJCAAN, www.njcaan.com, Quiet Rockland (www.quietrockland.com) and our own Park Slope group, www.AirTrafficParkSlope.com. Lawsuits have been filed by Rockland County and others contesting the redesign.
The FAA never did an environmental impact study on communites under the flight routes. They claimed there would be no environmental impact and, therefore, there was no need for an Environmental Impact Study.
We hope to have the FAA and the Port Authority of NYNJ back to a Community Board 6 meeting in the Fall. They met with us in June of 2008 trying to assure us that we would address our concerns. This has not happened.
If you are one of the people that are bothered by this increase of low flying aircraft, please viit the web site and sign our petition. Get involved. We need help. -
Subject: correct web sites
sorry, those web sites are:
http://airtrafficparkslope.org
http://njcaan.org
http://www.quietrockland.com -
The airplanes up in the sky never bothered me. I don't think I ever noticed any noise. You live in a city. If some noise from airplanes miles above bothers you then maybe the city isn't for you.
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Subject: less than 1/2 mile
You say "miles" above?
If you visit www4.passur.com/lga.html you will see that the planes flying over Park Slope are between 2000 and 2500 feet when going to runway 4.
When they fly to Runway 31, there are two options, one is over the water and across the LIE and circle to runway 31. The other way--which the data indicates the planes have been taking since the "redesign of the air space" are flying over Park Slope at 3000 feet.
The ONLY time we get any relief is when the planes fly up the Hudson River and land on runway 22. But they have another option here, they can fly over Park Slope at 3000 feet and over the Long Island Sound.
Lawsuits from Rockland Count and challenges from Sen. Dodd of Connecticut have pressured the FAA to use the Husdon River approach very infrequently. When they do use runway 22, they are flying eastward over the us and the Sound.
Yes, I am saying that political pressure is one factor for the increase of planes flying WAY UNDER "miles above" over Park Slope. -
Regardless of whether or not it's miles, my point still stands.
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