Homophobic Harassment on Grand Army Plaza
Comments
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Joe,
I have read Chomsky, more than I would have liked. I took education and history courses in college and got hit double - I had to read him for both majors! I have read Chomsky, heard him speak in person, downloaded podcasts with extended interviews with him and find his views on Israel deplorable.I will agree to disagree with you on politics, but please, making statements that I haven't read the guy is just silly.
As far as being off topic, I find it odd that Booklaw would make the comment that homophobia, racism and anti-Semitism have anything to do with education. I gave Chomsky as an example of this and stick by this example. People from all levels of education say bigoted, racist and homophobic things. I work in the schools with many teachers with Master degrees and often double Master degrees. Here is a tasting of some of things I have heard in the teacher's lounge:
- a mommy and a daddy are better then two mommies
- people who grew up with learning disabilities should not be allowed to become teachers
- Jews run the government
- Chinese people should not be moving into Brooklyn - they take homes form Dominicans and Puerto Ricans
-Muslims smell
- Jesus should be in the history books, but Mohamed left out
- All republicans are Nazis
- All teachers should be required to speak Spanish fluently
- If you don't accept Jesus you are going to hell
- the holocaust should not be taught until the Palestinians have a state
After ten years in a public school, you hear many interesting things from fellow educators. -
Moconnell79,
Contacting city agencies is great, but contacting the media is what really brings change. Buy a Flip, get some film or audio of these people making homophobic comments, and then get the media involved. Nothing encourages an organization to do the right thing then media exposure.
Perhaps you could contact a gay rights group that may have some media contacts or advice to give you?
Let us know if you can pull a protest together, that would be great. -
I don't want to come across as ignorant here, but there's something about these stories that I never understand. How do the people shouting the obscenities know that you are homosexual? Were you walking by in drag or something? Or holding hands with another person? I'm truly not being facetious here. I just never understand how they would know who to shout at.
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"Those homophobes are just like garden variety racists or anti-semites... they're losers left behind by a larger society in which they can no longer compete, due to poor education and poorer socialization. '
Another inaccurate comment on this thread. Get it straight. There are liberal racists and republican racists. They are educated and uneducated as well. Hell, the president sat in a church of hate with his mentor for 20 years.
People don't fit into neat categories. I wish we would stop putting labels on people. This group, that group. I see people not groups or victims. Everybody in some way is affected by some sort of racism or hatred...fat people, religious people, people's race, people with disabilities etc. Unfortunately, it sucks but it is what it is. You should go through life being the best person you can and I believe there are more good people out there than bad. I also believe in karma and mean people will rot in hell. haha kidding, well, not really. -
I agree with Eggcream, racism and bigotry run across the board. I've seen heteros treat gays badly, just like I've seen gays of all colors and nationalities behave like bigots and racists. We live in a violent world.
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The liberal racists and republican racists, and the teachers with double masters degrees, are unlikely to yell racist or homophobic epithets our of car windows.
I was referring to a particular subset of racist/homophobe/antisemites... the ones who, in the safety of the company of their friends, find the courage to scream at their betters from a moving vehicle.
I am aware that there are more sophisticated, better educated, and wealthier racists out there. I've encountered all categories of them at one time or another. But they're much less likely to take bats out of the trunk of their car and pretend that they're Grand Dragons in 1950's Mississippi. -
booklaw wrote: The liberal racists and republican racists, and the teachers with double masters degrees, are unlikely to yell racist or homophobic epithets our of car windows.
Ahhh, now I'm understanding the objections to your earlier post a little more. I think the baseball bat index relates to age, much more so than education or class-of-birth.
I was referring to a particular subset of racist/homophobe/antisemites... the ones who, in the safety of the company of their friends, find the courage to scream at their betters from a moving vehicle.
I am aware that there are more sophisticated, better educated, and wealthier racists out there. I've encountered all categories of them at one time or another. But they're much less likely to take bats out of the trunk of their car and pretend that they're Grand Dragons in 1950's Mississippi.
The better off haters are just . . . in Congress like some of those KKK members, or keeping you out of the workforce or whatever. But I appreciate your original understanding of homophobia being like anti-Semitism, etc.
What's that book....? "Homophobia, Weapon of Sexism". Smart to see how all the hating is related. It's all power and control, don't buy in, and stand up for yourself.
Should we split this digression off to it's own thread? We *can* if it's something folks are going to keep talking about here...
p.s. eggcream, I totally take exception to Rev Wright "church of hate" comment. Just sayin' -- that is such a profound misunderstanding, along the lines of your other "People don't fit into neat categories." statement. I understand "Goddamn America" in the context of rhetorical flourish in which it was said. Aren't you *ever* ashamed of what we as a country do?
p.p.s. willregistersoon, you are overthinking it, or think logic is involved. I had a pal who was gay bashed, except he happened to be straight. But he was downtown, and looked enough of a certain way (effete) to his attackers... -
pitu wrote:
This reminds me of the two brothers in the Bronx (? - forgive me if I got the locale wrong) who were beaten, one killed, because they were walking arm and arm along the street. The were BROTHERS for the love of God. And even if they had been gay who or what the holy fuck gives anyone the right to touch or scream slurs at another human being based on their sexuality, color of their skin or religion they subscribe to? So yes, 8th, be offended, be shocked and be outraged. Anyone who's ever suffered this kind of abuse or witnessed it has every right to say "What the hell????" and hopefully do something about it.
p.p.s. willregistersoon, you are overthinking it, or think logic is involved. I had a pal who was gay bashed, except he happened to be straight. But he was downtown, and looked enough of a certain way (effete) to his attackers... -
Anastasia Beaverhausen wrote: [quote=pitu]
This reminds me of the two brothers in the Bronx (? - forgive me if I got the locale wrong) who were beaten, one killed, because they were walking arm and arm along the street. The were BROTHERS for the love of God. And even if they had been gay who or what the holy fuck gives anyone the right to touch or scream slurs at another human being based on their sexuality, color of their skin or religion they subscribe to? So yes, 8th, be offended, be shocked and be outraged. Anyone who's ever suffered this kind of abuse or witnessed it has every right to say "What the hell????" and hopefully do something about it.
p.p.s. willregistersoon, you are overthinking it, or think logic is involved. I had a pal who was gay bashed, except he happened to be straight. But he was downtown, and looked enough of a certain way (effete) to his attackers...
Exactly. I think that was in Brooklyn -- the brothers were from Ecuador. -
Pitu:
You wrote, “p.s. eggcream, I totally take exception to Rev Wright "church of hate" comment. Just sayin' -- that is such a profound misunderstanding, along the lines of your other "People don't fit into neat categories." statement. I understand "Goddamn America" in the context of rhetorical flourish in which it was said. Aren't you *ever* ashamed of what we as a country do?”
I am often ashamed of what we as a country do. Let me list a few:
-I am ashamed that Bill Clinton created a situation in which gays, lesbians and bisexuals have to hide their sexual preferences to be a part of the military – surely this sends the message both explicitly and implicitly that being gay puts one in a lower, less respected social and legal standing.
-I am ashamed that the United States of America elects the religious right, and then gets so annoyed with the religious right that we then elect the religious left (Obama and Biden). Different colors, same policies.
-I am ashamed that the Democrats are scared to support gay marriage and that we are stuck in a weird situation where Cheney openly supports gay marriage and Obama and Biden do not.
-I am ashamed that my sister can’t marry her girlfriend of many years and receive all of the benefits that marriage entails.
-I am ashamed that I live in a country where our President, as eggcream correctly said, sat in a church filled with hate speech for 20 years and then got elected. I am ashamed that the US was so mad at Bush that we accepted Obama’s 20 years in a church where Hamas was supported in the Reverend’s bulletin, AIDS was blamed on white people, 9/11 was blamed on Israel, etc.
Sure I understand "Goddamn America", but I am ashamed that I live in a country where it is considered a “rhetorical flourish” by many and not the hate speech it really is. -
pokersloper wrote:
so...
Sure I understand "Goddamn America", but I am ashamed that I live in a country where it is considered a “rhetorical flourish” by many and not the hate speech it really is.
Freedom of speech, just watch what you say.
(that's from a song - IceT so old I have the vinyl) -
Pitu,
You wrote, “so... Freedom of speech, just watch what you say.”
My view is - Freedom of speech, and your speech will be judged accordingly. -
booklaw wrote: But they're much less likely to take bats out of the trunk of their car and pretend that they're Grand Dragons in 1950's Mississippi.
or like the Black Panthers stationed at polling places with billy clubs during the last election. -
"
Post Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:34 pm ESTpitu wrote: [quote=booklaw]The liberal racists and republican racists, and the teachers with double masters degrees, are unlikely to yell racist or homophobic epithets our of car windows.
Ahhh, now I'm understanding the objections to your earlier post a little more. I think the baseball bat index relates to age, much more so than education or class-of-birth.
I was referring to a particular subset of racist/homophobe/antisemites... the ones who, in the safety of the company of their friends, find the courage to scream at their betters from a moving vehicle.
I am aware that there are more sophisticated, better educated, and wealthier racists out there. I've encountered all categories of them at one time or another. But they're much less likely to take bats out of the trunk of their car and pretend that they're Grand Dragons in 1950's Mississippi.
The better off haters are just . . . in Congress like some of those KKK members, or keeping you out of the workforce or whatever. But I appreciate your original understanding of homophobia being like anti-Semitism, etc.
What's that book....? "Homophobia, Weapon of Sexism". Smart to see how all the hating is related. It's all power and control, don't buy in, and stand up for yourself.
Should we split this digression off to it's own thread? We *can* if it's something folks are going to keep talking about here...
p.s. eggcream, I totally take exception to Rev Wright "church of hate" comment. Just sayin' -- that is such a profound misunderstanding, along the lines of your other "People don't fit into neat categories." statement. I understand "Goddamn America" in the context of rhetorical flourish in which it was said. Aren't you *ever* ashamed of what we as a country do?
You can't possibly be serious, but I'm afraid you are, that the only comment you have about Wright is his Goddamn America comment. He has preached hate for 20 plus years. It was not ONE isolated comment and NO, I am not ashamed of my country. I'll leave that to michelle and her husband. We're not perfect but we're the best damn country around always coming to everybodys aid and nobody, expecially the POTUS, should ever go around and apologize for America. BS. -
willregistersoon wrote: I don't want to come across as ignorant here, but there's something about these stories that I never understand. How do the people shouting the obscenities know that you are homosexual? Were you walking by in drag or something? Or holding hands with another person? I'm truly not being facetious here. I just never understand how they would know who to shout at.
They don't. It's just a derogatory comment meant to insult someone. -
nd not the hate speech it really is.
pitu wrote: so...
Exactly what your president and his minions are doing to the people opposed to socialized health care reform. They want people to snitch on those who oppose. [email protected]
Freedom of speech, just watch what you say.
(that's from a song - IceT so old I have the vinyl)
Remember how liberals went ballistic when President Bush wanted people to be on the lookout for terrorists after 9/11 and if they saw anything suspicious to report it. Reasonable enough. But no, liberals had a fit. The cafe on 9th street off 7th had the obnoxious poster on their front door.
Now we have the white house setting up a website to flag people who disagree with a policy! Terrorism versus a policy. -
yes, people love to censor the views of people they don't agree with.
...whether the "right" or "left" does it more is likely an argument the can't be won.
I prefer to focus on the exceptions: Like when he ACLU finds itself in the position of defending the KKK's "right" to march thru a minority neighborhood.
...sort of like having to defend a suspect who is clearly guilty of a heinous charge. Somebody has to do it.
P.S. Nobody has to defend the construction guys (I'm not) -
eggcream wrote: [quote=willregistersoon]I don't want to come across as ignorant here, but there's something about these stories that I never understand. How do the people shouting the obscenities know that you are homosexual? Were you walking by in drag or something? Or holding hands with another person? I'm truly not being facetious here. I just never understand how they would know who to shout at.
They don't. It's just a derogatory comment meant to insult someone.
I agree it's incomprehensible. The most recent time I was called a faggot from a passing car (about 2 weeks ago) I was pushing my kids in their stroller, walking by myself. WTF? (and, no, I do not do drag or sashay or anything like that... I'm pretty butch, IMHO). -
8thand Prez... geez.. 2 weeks ago while strolling the kids? Just so sorry that happened.. to you... to anyone.
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I'm a little surprised that no one's questioning the veracity of Moconnell79's post. Brand new poster with 2 posts (only in this thread) and everyone blindly accepts the story. And let's not jump to some silly conclusion that this means I hate gay people or something.
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Good point caseopele. If a person with no posts came here and bad mouthed a restaurant, we'd probably all be writing it off as some kind of troll or something. But because of the nature of this accusation, everyone is immediately assuming this is true. I have no idea, but it is worth considering.
In any case [I'm obliged to add by the PC police), this shit really goes on and it's wrong. -
willregistersoon wrote: Good point caseopele. If a person with no posts came here and bad mouthed a restaurant, we'd probably all be writing it off as some kind of troll or something. But because of the nature of this accusation, everyone is immediately assuming this is true. I have no idea, but it is worth considering.
Thanks for putting it better than I did!
In any case [I'm obliged to add by the PC police), this shit really goes on and it's wrong. -
eggcream wrote: [quote=booklaw] But they're much less likely to take bats out of the trunk of their car and pretend that they're Grand Dragons in 1950's Mississippi.
or like the Black Panthers stationed at polling places with billy clubs during the last election.
^^^
(pausing to take in this moment of morning insanity) -
caseopele wrote: [quote=willregistersoon]Good point caseopele. If a person with no posts came here and bad mouthed a restaurant, we'd probably all be writing it off as some kind of troll or something. But because of the nature of this accusation, everyone is immediately assuming this is true. I have no idea, but it is worth considering.
Thanks for putting it better than I did!
In any case [I'm obliged to add by the PC police), this shit really goes on and it's wrong.
Some posts ring truer than others - this one sounded real to me because of the way it was written, but we never really know on here do we?
Plenty of people are not moved to post on a message board until something extreme happens - most of our traffic here is lurkers. -
During the first Gulf War I was in college, walking around the local town with a buddy. A pick-up truck drove by and someone yelled out, "Go back to Iraq you Iraqi son of a bitch." Of course, the guy I was walking with was from India.
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I just find it interesting that the OP hasn't returned to post in 5 days. The incident may have happened and if so, it's seriously messed up. I'm just surprised considering other (as believable) posts have been shot down or thought to be journalists stirring shit up over here.
pokersloper, I never said that shit like this doesn't happen. I'd have to be blind and deaf or lived in a cave for my whole life to have never seen racist, homophobic behavior. My issue is with this one particular post, that many people just take it as fact.
P.S. Some of the most bigoted ignorant people I've met have been poor and uneducated, or well educated and "higher" class. Ignorance knows no bounds. -
Subject: Re: Homophobic Harassment on Grand Army Plaza
Moconnell79 wrote: FYI - on Wed. July 22nd, a construction worker at 36 Plaza Street E. threateningly yelled "Faggot!" at me as I was walking home. I got the number for the contracting company from the scaffolding, Panorama Int. Contracting - (212) 563 - 7070 - and immediately called to complain. The manager of the company responded by repeatedly calling me a "Faggot!" himself and threatening to physically harm me if he heard from or saw me again. I filed a police report and sent letters to Better Business Bureau, NYC Human Rights Commission (among others) but keep these incidents in mind if you pass 36 Plaza St. East or if you have any dealings with Panorama Int. Contracting.
sticks and stones, remember?
If you had a beef with the guy, you shoulda punched him in the face. Otherwise, don't waste your time tattling on him, like a sissy. What did you do to piss him off anyway? -
Wingedearth = JAH
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8thandPrez wrote: [quote=eggcream][quote=willregistersoon]I don't want to come across as ignorant here, but there's something about these stories that I never understand. How do the people shouting the obscenities know that you are homosexual? Were you walking by in drag or something? Or holding hands with another person? I'm truly not being facetious here. I just never understand how they would know who to shout at.
They don't. It's just a derogatory comment meant to insult someone.
I agree it's incomprehensible. The most recent time I was called a faggot from a passing car (about 2 weeks ago) I was pushing my kids in their stroller, walking by myself. WTF? (and, no, I do not do drag or sashay or anything like that... I'm pretty butch, IMHO).
I'd say the appropriate thing to do would be to challenge the other person to a duel of some sort (signal them with your middle finger), except that'd be difficult to do when you're with your kids. So probably just best not to acknowledge them. -
Somehow, I didn't imagine 8thandPrez as butch, but that's probably due to the MTM avatar.
Agree that this shouldn't be taken at face value from a poster that nobody's ever seen before. Also agree that if it is true, it sucks and all kinds of shit should be raised.
Lastly, I know of at least a few "sissies" who could likely kick wingedearth's ass. And I wouldn't mind watching. Just sayin'
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