A map with a crezy definition of Prospect Heights
I know we've settled this issue many times, but I found a map with an outlier view of Prospect Heights. It's in the lobby of the Brooklyn Central library. I once went to their Brooklyn collection to look for old maps of our neighborhood, and there were none like this.
The owner of the pet store on Vanderbilt might agree with the map- he says that 25 years ago, people would call our neighborhood Bed-Stuy.
I concur with the current definition of Prospect Heights! I'm not going to rock the boat! But what a crazy map.
Comments
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Look how small Clinton Hill is!
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Posted this in another thread before but the OP's map tends to jibe with the MTA's view on the subject. -
The MTA map is absurd, but the map raulism posted is very interesting. Raulism, where is it from orginally? Park as the northern border and Washington as the eastern border is something I've never seen any source posit before.
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Carnivore wrote: The MTA map is absurd, but the map raulism posted is very interesting. Raulism, where is it from orginally? Park as the northern border and Washington as the eastern border is something I've never seen any source posit before.
I didn't see any information about the source of the map. I think there was something in the corner that said that it was from a pamphlet- but you can easily see it for yourself at the library.
I have a feeling the map maker may have confused Prospect Heights with the school district boundaries. I haven't seen anything like it on old maps either. -
Nice find!
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Heehee. As always, Carnivore pitches a fit if someone poses evidence that conflicts with his opinion of our neighborhood borders. Of course, if the MTA map said Crown Heights instead of Prospect Heights, he'd use to try to prove his case.
Yes, Raulism, where'd you get this map? What is the date on it? It proves what I've been saying all along: that the border of Crown Heights is Franklin Avenue. Just as the high school east of Washington named Prospect Heights proves. And the synagogue east of Classon that announces it's served the Prospect Heights community for decades. And the church east of Washington that includes the words Prospect Heights in its name. I guess the freelance writer for the Encyclopedia of NYC overlooked these facts. -
Heehee! As always, Jack Krohn sees "fits" where they exist only in his own mind. Jack, you've "said all along" that the reason you claim Franklin as the border is so that you'll be able to sell your property for more money. I have no such motivation.
That map says a lot of things that neither you, nor anyone else has said, which is what makes it interesting. I find it very interesting that the map also shows Park Slope extending very far to the south, when anyone native to the area knows that that was never considered part of Park Slope by anyone until quite recently.
So Jack, do you think that the Meadowlands are located in New York? I mean after all, the New York Giants and the New York Jets play there...
And surely the Williamsburg Savings Bank Tower is in Williamsburg. -
I believe it also shows that Cobble Hill borders with Park Slope, across 4th Avenue.
Unless that's some other neighborhood ending in
LE
L
(clearly not Boerum Hill or Gowanus)
And it shows much of the North Slope (above Park Place, anyway) to be Downtown Brooklyn.
Curious map indeed. -
Heehee. As always, Carnivore pitches a fit if someone poses evidence that conflicts with his opinion of our neighborhood borders.
you so craaaazy -
Old Honeymooner episodes have Bensonhurst extending all the way down to Chauncey or Halsey Street in Bed-Stuy. I asked an old time, born & bred Brooklynite if that was true and he said 'yes'. I'm not sure if he was putting me on a snipe hunt or not, however, it's interesting to know that up until a hundred or a couple of hundred or so years ago Brooklyn was sectioned off as six towns.
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Idlewild wrote: I'm not sure if he was putting me on a snipe hunt or not, however, it's interesting to know that up until a hundred or a couple of hundred or so years ago Brooklyn was sectioned off as six towns.
I'm pretty sure that Brooklyn had been unified as a borough by the time the 5 boroughs of New York City were incorporated in 1898. -
Right. But like Queens maybe we stuck with the names as neighborhoods. Then as time went on new zones emerged.
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I was curious about the earliest mention of "Prospect Heights" so I looked around in the Brooklyn Daily Eagle briefly and from what I can tell, "Prospect Heights" was used generically for areas that we would today all call "Park Slope" and maybe the "Park Slope" name became more popular as the real estate boom took off and squeezed the area called "prospect heights" into the little sliver it's in now. Then I looked for early mentions of "Crown Heights" to see when that came into use and didn't find anything before like 1908 or 1910. And then I lost interest. For now, anyway.
this is from 1890, claiming the origin of the name Prospect Heights was coined circa 1870. http://tinyurl.com/n5thej -
dont want to beat a dead horse, but does this mean one side of franklin is crown heights and the other is prospect heights? Doesn't really matter but it would explain all the confusion in past postings.
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stah00 wrote: dont want to beat a dead horse, but does this mean one side of franklin is crown heights and the other is prospect heights? Doesn't really matter but it would explain all the confusion in past postings.
Both sides of Franklin are Crown Heights. Prospect Heights starts at Washington. -
Carnivore wrote: [quote=stah00]dont want to beat a dead horse, but does this mean one side of franklin is crown heights and the other is prospect heights? Doesn't really matter but it would explain all the confusion in past postings.
Both sides of Franklin are Crown Heights. Prospect Heights starts at Washington.
Stop stating your opinion as fact. -
ams wrote: Stop stating your opinion as fact.
Stop denying reality and calling facts opinions. -
Can we all agree that it's a muddled mess? Just decide where you live based on how much you want to sell or rent your property for.
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Ishtar wrote: Just decide where you live based on how much you want to sell or rent your property for.
Sweet! I'm living in Beverly Hills now! And my apartment just tripled in value because I said I do! -
yes, similar to the way arena proponents always refer to prospect hgts as downtown brooklyn. to me, it's the 21st arrondissement.
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bill c wrote: yes, similar to the way arena proponents always refer to prospect hgts as downtown brooklyn. to me, it's the 21st arrondissement.
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When I first moved into my apartment in 1998, (Eastern Parkway south side, between Classon and Franklin) I was told by my roommate that she had to lie and tell potential roomies she was in Prospect Heights to get people to come to the place. She knew she was in CH and she knew people would say something.
Since I've taken it over, as the years have passed, I noticed that it became easier and easier to get people interested in the place to the point that my apt has become downright desirable! Park Slope who??? -
Whatchuwant wrote: had to lie and tell potential roomies she was in Prospect Heights to get people to come to the place.
egggsactly
I'm guessing this has been going on as long as there have been street names in brooklyn. Lincoln Place used to be called DeGraw street for the whole length of it until there was an infamous murder on DeGraw (between 5th & 6th aves if I remember right) and because the DeGraw name was splashed all over the papers the homeowners petitioned to have the street renamed (c.1873).
The "Prospect Heights" name was coined by a landlord/developer who built buildings so far south (i.e. 550 5th Avenue) we would now call it "South Slope" and a little later developers started using the "Park Slope" name (probably because it used the word "Park", so it was more specific than Prospect Heights) and what was called "Prospect Heights" seems to have ended up being squeezed between "Crow Hill" (later Crown Heights) and "Park Slope" like a vestigial tail.
Maybe the Franklin Avenue idea of the border between Crown Heights and Prospect Heights came from the border of the 9th Ward, which in 1889 was listed as "bounded by Flatbush, Atlantic av, the City line at Flatbush, and Franklin ave". -
squindar wrote: Maybe the Franklin Avenue idea of the border between Crown Heights and Prospect Heights came from the border of the 9th Ward, which in 1889 was listed as "bounded by Flatbush, Atlantic av, the City line at Flatbush, and Franklin ave".
That would be a great thought if true. I'm curious to see the original source for that map that started this thread to see when it dates from.
However, I'm convinced that the modern push to move the boundary east is based strictly on commercial interests. -
squindar wrote: Maybe the Franklin Avenue idea of the border between Crown Heights and Prospect Heights came from the border of the 9th Ward, which in 1889 was listed as "bounded by Flatbush, Atlantic av, the City line at Flatbush, and Franklin ave".
Prospect Park was supposed to go to down to Baltic, and that's when the street name was changed to Park Place. Maybe this map goes to that period, when things were in flux.
Does that sound reasonable to anyone? The other odd thing about the map I found is that it does not include the Botanic Gardens. Does anyone know how far east the park was supposed to go at its largest iteration? -
originally, the Botanic Gardens were supposed to be a part of the park, i think.
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Carnivore wrote: However, I'm convinced that the modern push to move the boundary east is based strictly on commercial interests.
I agree with you... and it's not unique to Brooklyn. I was going to bring up Noe Valley in SF because I used to have friends out there who jokingly referred to it as "swanky Noe Valley" and one of the first lines in the wikipedia entry for Noe Valley is "These borders are understood to be somewhat flexible, particularly by real estate agents. " -
mr. met wrote: originally, the Botanic Gardens were supposed to be a part of the park, i think.
Oh now that's interesting. I just looked that up in the "Complete illustrated guidebook to Prospect Park and the BBG" and it indicates the original site plan for the park straddled Flatbush Avenue (and included the land that later became BBG) but because Flatbush had been built up in elevation it would have created a visual barrier down the middle of the park. So they sold off the northern section and the book goes on to say "the northern section would later be developed as the brownstone neighborhood of Prospect Heights".
The area east of flatbush was developed into the museum & garden starting around 1909 I think. The eastern border of the museum & BBG land is, of course, Washington Avenue ;-) -
ams wrote: [quote=Carnivore][quote=stah00]dont want to beat a dead horse, but does this mean one side of franklin is crown heights and the other is prospect heights? Doesn't really matter but it would explain all the confusion in past postings.
Both sides of Franklin are Crown Heights. Prospect Heights starts at Washington.
Stop stating your opinion as fact.
What he said. -
Subject: map of PH
when we moved to St. John's ( on block where Richard Meyer building is) 23 years ago the plan for our coop said we lived in Crown Heights When my parents lived here 58 years ago my mom says it was called Crown Heights.
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