Rep. Wilson calls Obama a liar -then shuts down his website
Comments
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puply wrote: Millions of H1B visa holders have worked and work in this country since the program was established. They do pay Social Security, Medicare and other taxes, but cannot ask for the benefits. The majority leave the country. That is a huge amount of money that goes to benefit Americans.
I very much hope you're not entirely right on this point. The US has reciprocal treaties with many countries, and no matter where I end up, I ought to be able to collect benefits locally that correspond to what I've paid into Medicare and Social Security. Not sure how the H1B holder's country and the US divvy up the cost when the time comes, but those treaties mean that they must do so. -
Mr. met, I was responding to the snickering attitude of many on this blog that Obama can do no wrong and specifically that there is no reasonable argument against his plan.
i was responding to your post -
Subject: H1B taxes
doctorj wrote: [quote=puply]Millions of H1B visa holders have worked and work in this country since the program was established. They do pay Social Security, Medicare and other taxes, but cannot ask for the benefits. The majority leave the country. That is a huge amount of money that goes to benefit Americans.
I very much hope you're not entirely right on this point. The US has reciprocal treaties with many countries, and no matter where I end up, I ought to be able to collect benefits locally that correspond to what I've paid into Medicare and Social Security. Not sure how the H1B holder's country and the US divvy up the cost when the time comes, but those treaties mean that they must do so.
The short answer is no.
The Social Security and Medicare money paid by H1Bs goes to benefit Americans. No H1B visa holder that leaves the United States after expiration of his status gets to benefit from it. The treaties you mention do not apply to these taxes.
I've known so many people in this situation. They basically pay for something they are not allowed to use. I've yet to see any politician tackling this issue. But, of course, it is a win win situation for everybody, except for the non-voting H1Bs.
http://www.thetaxguy.com/faq.htm#eight
Question: I am teaching and doing research at a university in California, visiting the U.S. on an H1-b visa from my home country. I can claim an exemption from federal income tax under my country's tax treaty with the U.S. However, the university is withholding social security and Medicare tax on my exempt income, in addition to state income tax. Will I get a refund of this withholding when I file my tax return?
Answer: Treaty exemptions generally apply only to federal income tax. As an H1-b visa holder, you are required to pay social security and Medicare tax on the income that is not taxable for federal income tax purposes. Only F, J, M and Q visa holders are exempt from social security tax. Regarding state income tax, most states honor federal treaty exemptions, but they are not required to by federal law, and some do not. Those that do not (that I am aware of) are: 1) Alabama, 2) Arkansas, 3) California, 4) Connecticut, 5) Hawaii, 6) Kansas, 7) Kentucky, 8) Louisiana, 9) Maryland, 10) Mississippi, 11) New Jersey, 12) North Dakota, and 13) Pennsylvania. If you live or work in one of these states, you will owe state income tax even though your income is exempt from federal income tax by a treaty. -
So that you have an idea of the situation, here goes a note about the money H1Bs pay for Social Security (not including the Medicare tax). Albeit the calculation is unofficial, I believe it is close to point:
"Congress gets to keep all of the Social Security taxes from H1B for free. Well, not all. Some goes for disabilty and so on. But almost all of it is retained with no option for the employee to get any back. How much?
I did some research on just technical employment in 2006. That was 57,352 individuals who made an average of $56,200 each. The benefit to the SS fund? Roughly $246,573,453.60, give or take a few hundred thousand. In other words, a quarter billion of extra funds to raid (with "IOUs") for free! Now, that's a conspiracy theory. LOL!"
http://wwww.dailykos.com/story/2009/9/7/775562/-H1B-Gift-Cards
So here you have it. Dear Rep. Wilson and other like him keep screaming their heads off against illegal aliens while profiteering from legal aliens in silence. Shameless lot, unamerican (remember not taxation without representation?), and racist. -
interesting stuff, puply. thanks.
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mr. met wrote:
Govt already wastes hundreds of billions of dollars. The more we enable the govt the more inefficient they become. The 'dont you love your country' argument is tired; if I love my brother, but my brother is a crackhead, I'm not gonna give him cash, I'm gonna get him help. The govt is cracked out, mismanaged and hemorrhaging cash by the second on pet projects & bullshit... I guarantee the ideal execution promised by Obama will be a pipe dream, and the reality of the plan will just be more bureaucracy and taxes. Remember, this is the same Congress that helped muck up the economy with Bush during his time... to think Obama, who came from that Congress, will be the one to make the difference is unrealistic at best.
2. that's the problem with people in this country. they know that tens of millions of their fellow americans, who they love so dearly because they love america so dearly, can't get health care. BUT, they don't want them to receive health care if there is even the slightest possibility that they will pay more taxes. not that i think the average american will pay more taxes to fund illegal immigrants, but that's the way people think. particularly conservatives. if you love this country so much, why don't you love the people in it? -
I guarantee the ideal execution promised by Obama will be a pipe dream, and the reality of the plan will just be more bureaucracy and taxes
i agree. i actually think obama's plan sucks. he knows the single-payer system is the way to go, but he won't do it. he's killing a meaningful public option, too. hopefully some truly progressive lawmakers will find a way to get some meaningful reform into the bill. -
Interesting, intelligent and fairly respectful discussion - not what I expected as a response to my initial post but it was food for thought to read everything everyone posted here.
And, yeah, I read that Wilson's opponent raised $100K in the 8 hours after Wilson's outburst. He should be censured (and he should lose his next election). -
Cool The Kid wrote: I guarantee the ideal execution promised by Obama will be a pipe dream, and the reality of the plan will just be more bureaucracy and taxes.
and lowered health care costs, and an end to health care providers waiting until you get seriously sick to drop you from your plan entirely because you had acne, and a lot of other things.
seriously, do Americans not know this terrible fact? Or not care? -
danielle123 wrote: And, yeah, I read that Wilson's opponent raised $100K in the 8 hours after Wilson's outburst. He should be censured (and he should lose his next election).
it's at $266k now -
obama's plan won't lower costs
in order to lower costs, you must eliminate the insurance companies and the paperwork that comes with them -
That's a bit of an exaggeration.
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Boygabriel wrote: [quote=Cool The Kid]I guarantee the ideal execution promised by Obama will be a pipe dream, and the reality of the plan will just be more bureaucracy and taxes.
and lowered health care costs, and an end to health care providers waiting until you get seriously sick to drop you from your plan entirely because you had acne, and a lot of other things.
seriously, do Americans not know this terrible fact? Or not care?
Hey man I am all for a public plan if it will be done efficiently and fairly. With the govt's track record & complete lack of accountability we can pretty much assume efficiency is a no go. And with Obama looking to increase taxes on the rich & successful to satiate the masses fairness is out too.
Obama has great ideas, but the details and execution are where I take issue with his moves. Spare me the 'woe is me'isms.... obviously everyone wants a better health care system; the question is how are we going to get it, and how is it gonna be paid for? Obama & Co haven't answered either of those very important questions. -
puply wrote: Millions of H1B visa holders have worked and work in this country since the program was established. They do pay Social Security, Medicare and other taxes, but cannot ask for the benefits. The majority leave the country. That is a huge amount of money that goes to benefit Americans.
Would you care to buy yourself a clue?
The "illegal aliens" most republicans love to hate also pay these and other taxes, be it with false SS numbers or by simply buying something at a store.
Wilson is a crackpot and is unamerican, yes. Not only because of the outburst of yesterday (no one did the same for the proven LiAR that is Bush, respect of the office winning), but because, like so many other republicans, he caters to the worst prejudiced line among the people.
Democrats Boo Bush During 2005 SOTU
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mr. met wrote:
Yes, let's quote that intellect. Look at your history books, Democrats are the party of racism.like so many other republicans, he caters to the worst prejudiced line among the people.
like good ole bill maher says, if you are a racist, you are probably a republican.
"The 13th Amendment banning slavery, the 14th Amendment guaranteeing equal protection of the laws and the 15th Amendment according black Americans the right to vote -- all three were accomplished by the Republican Party despite fierce opposition from the Democrats. In the words of Mary Church Terrell, a black Republican who co-founded the NAACP: "Every right that has been bestowed upon blacks was initiated by the Republican Party." -
modsquad wrote: [quote=mr. met]
Well, maybe you can afford the extra tax burden. Many cannot, thus the protests against it.
but, if some illegal immigrants get health care WHILE the tens of millions of americans who DON'T have it now are getting it, i don't really have a huge problem.
It is simplistic to label these people as crackpots and "unamerican" as some have.
How hypocritical of liberals to attack Joe Wilson's outburst yet have no qualms about San Fran Nan using her "swastika" and "astroturf' comments about the town hall protesters. -
Boygabriel wrote: [quote=puply]The "illegal aliens" most republicans love to hate also pay these and other taxes, be it with false SS numbers or by simply buying something at a store.
^ ^ ^ the truth most anti-immigration demagogues can't handle.
It's ILLEGAL immigrants. -
pokersloper wrote: Mod,
There was a movement a few years ago to try to require emergency care providers to get this information and we raised a public outcry and refused to do it. I'm not sure whether the rules were implemented or not, but I can tell you that I would never ask a patient in the ER whether they were here legally or not no matter what the law said, and I know that most of my colleagues feel the same way.
I don't know what emergency workers can and can't do, so I asked. If you take that as insincere, then so be it. -
eggcream wrote: Yes, let's quote that intellect. Look at your history books, Democrats are the party of racism.
That was undoubtedly true at one time, but Mary Church Terrell died in the early 1950s. The reverse has been true since the civil rights movement.
"The 13th Amendment banning slavery, the 14th Amendment guaranteeing equal protection of the laws and the 15th Amendment according black Americans the right to vote -- all three were accomplished by the Republican Party despite fierce opposition from the Democrats. In the words of Mary Church Terrell, a black Republican who co-founded the NAACP: "Every right that has been bestowed upon blacks was initiated by the Republican Party." -
eggcream wrote:
Not really. There's something of a social contract in the USA that says elected officials don't heckle like that in the people's house. That Rep wasn't raised right...
How hypocritical of liberals to attack Joe Wilson's outburst yet have no qualms about San Fran Nan using her "swastika" and "astroturf' comments about the town hall protesters.
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eggcream wrote: [quote=Boygabriel][quote=puply]The "illegal aliens" most republicans love to hate also pay these and other taxes, be it with false SS numbers or by simply buying something at a store.
^ ^ ^ the truth most anti-immigration demagogues can't handle.
It's ILLEGAL immigrants.
These illegal immigrants pay taxes. Millions, billions of dollars, using legally obtained ITINs or false SSs, or, as I pointed out, by simply buying something in stores.
They maybe illegal, but the wealth they generate for this country is pretty real and legal, and everyone enjoys it. You - as every other citizen and legal resident of this country - benefit of that money. -
Would you care to buy yourself a clue?
right. he did more than boo. he screamed that the president was a liar. YOU get a clue.
Democrats Boo Bush During 2005 SOTUYes, let's quote that intellect. Look at your history books, Democrats are the party of racism.
are you honestly doing this? the parties are unrecognizable today compared to what they were back then. are you serious with this?
"The 13th Amendment banning slavery, the 14th Amendment guaranteeing equal protection of the laws and the 15th Amendment according black Americans the right to vote -- all three were accomplished by the Republican Party despite fierce opposition from the Democrats. In the words of Mary Church Terrell, a black Republican who co-founded the NAACP: "Every right that has been bestowed upon blacks was initiated by the Republican Party."
TODAY, in the reality that we live in, if you are a racist, you are probably a republican. deal with it. -
eggcream wrote: [quote=Boygabriel][quote=puply]The "illegal aliens" most republicans love to hate also pay these and other taxes, be it with false SS numbers or by simply buying something at a store.
^ ^ ^ the truth most anti-immigration demagogues can't handle.
It's ILLEGAL immigrants.
true, I mistyped.
most anti-illegal-immigrant demagogues can't admit these truths stated above. -
Carnivore wrote: [quote=pokersloper]Mod,
There was a movement a few years ago to try to require emergency care providers to get this information and we raised a public outcry and refused to do it. I'm not sure whether the rules were implemented or not, but I can tell you that I would never ask a patient in the ER whether they were here legally or not no matter what the law said, and I know that most of my colleagues feel the same way.
I don't know what emergency workers can and can't do, so I asked. If you take that as insincere, then so be it.
wait, do people actually think that illegal immigrants should be denied emergency room care? -
eggcream wrote: Yes, let's quote that intellect. Look at your history books, Democrats are the party of racism.
The 20th century turned that on its head, didn't it?
The Southern Strategy worked exactly as Republicans wanted it to. Deal with it. -
Boygabriel wrote: [quote=Carnivore][quote=pokersloper]Mod,
There was a movement a few years ago to try to require emergency care providers to get this information and we raised a public outcry and refused to do it. I'm not sure whether the rules were implemented or not, but I can tell you that I would never ask a patient in the ER whether they were here legally or not no matter what the law said, and I know that most of my colleagues feel the same way.
I don't know what emergency workers can and can't do, so I asked. If you take that as insincere, then so be it.
wait, do people actually think that illegal immigrants should be denied emergency room care?
yes. ugly, right?
there was quite a bit of noise about getting hospital workers, and teachers, and cops, and anyone else who interacted with the public to ask about immigration status.
p.s.
btw, I recently witnessed a NYC Parks Dept guy threaten someone regarding their immigration status. Not cool, not legal. People can be horrible. -
LMAO @ staunch Democrats
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LMAO @ staunch Democrats
nice contribution -
eggcream wrote: [quote=puply]Millions of H1B visa holders have worked and work in this country since the program was established. They do pay Social Security, Medicare and other taxes, but cannot ask for the benefits. The majority leave the country. That is a huge amount of money that goes to benefit Americans.
Would you care to buy yourself a clue?
The "illegal aliens" most republicans love to hate also pay these and other taxes, be it with false SS numbers or by simply buying something at a store.
Wilson is a crackpot and is unamerican, yes. Not only because of the outburst of yesterday (no one did the same for the proven LiAR that is Bush, respect of the office winning), but because, like so many other republicans, he caters to the worst prejudiced line among the people.
Democrats Boo Bush During 2005 SOTU[/b]
As far as I know, no elected Dem ever shouted, "You lie!" at Bush during a SOTU. Had they done so, they, too, would have been completely out of line, and I would have worked to get their opponent to take his/her seat in office. There is a time and place (and appropriate method) for disagreeing with the President. When the President is on Capital Hill addressing Congress and the American public is not one of those times. -
squindar wrote: [quote=danielle123]And, yeah, I read that Wilson's opponent raised $100K in the 8 hours after Wilson's outburst. He should be censured (and he should lose his next election).
it's at $266k now
It's at $389K+. This makes me believe that there are some things that are right in this world.
(Love your tag line, Squindar!)
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