Bike Lanes erased - Please help!

booklaw wrote: However, I do not believe that any religious observance should be permitted to adversely affect nonbelievers.

I agree. And while I don’t think they’re imposing their beliefs on us non-believers, they’re trying to curtail a practical and completely reasonable -community- feature (bike lane on one of the most important bike thoroughfares in the borough), because of their personal religious views.

That’s not how inter-community issues should be decided in this city, which has every stripe of human living in very close proximity, or having to pass through each other’s proximity.

It is not reasonable to move important and heavily trafficked bike lanes because of a cultural belief that’s not shared by a vast majority of your fellow city dwellers. We're not talking about permitting incest or spousal abuse here. We're talking about bicycling.

Look, the Hasids haven't done anything illegal, they've focused community influence to get what they want. But that doesn't make it right, fair, or justified.

MOD NOTE: Cool yer jets, folks. Escalations and "he said..." grudge matches here do little to advance the conversation.

That said, speaking as just an observer I'd say it's hardly hypocritical for someone new to an area to give advice about being new to the area to someone else new the area.

On the contrary, it'd appear to be one subject where the new folks might be pretty well qualified to speak from their own experiences (...of being new here).

Still speaking as just an observer, can we please move on from the snips and barbs and get back to the issues?

Thanks all.

armchair_warrior wrote: there isn't enough bike riders in the area to out vote them any time soon. their political machine is the best.!

But isn't this really just Hassidics in one neighborhood? I haven't heard anything about Borough Park bike lanes or any other area - has anyone else? So it's all NYC cyclists vs. The Hassids and secular car drivers (i.e. bass-playing hipsters) of Williamsburg. I think people are exaggerating a bit about the Hassidics power.

Booklaw, do you really think there's a remote possibility that all of Brooklyn will become like Jerusalem? No way. Sure, their neighborhood is like Jerusalem, but you think the Hassids would come to Park Slope and throw stones at the baby strollers on the Sabbath? You think the Hassids are a force? They ain't got nothing on these Yuppie Moms.

armchair_warrior wrote: there isn't enough bike riders in the area to out vote them any time soon. their political machine is the best. they vote in blocks. which politicians love!

It's not about voting blocs. It's about political pressure, demonstration, petition, etc.

There are plenty of bike rider groups. None that could take on the Hasidim outright, but certainly on an issue by issue basis.

No, I do not for a minute think the Hasids will impose their views on Park Slope. I think they are most likely to concentrate on controlling what happens in their own neighborhoods.

But I do have an occasional moment of concern at the increasing frequency with which I see "black hats" in the Slope.

booklaw wrote: But I do have an occasional moment of concern at the increasing frequency with which I see "black hats" in the Slope.

Let’s have some fun and replace "black hats" in the above sentence with (in no particular order):
a. Catholics
b. Muslims
c. atheists
d. blacks
e. Asians
f. poor people
g. gays

It amazes me that there are bigots living in Brooklyn. How do you survive seeing so many people different than you every day?

Repainting The Bike Lane On Bedford Avenue

booklaw wrote:

It amazes me that there are bigots living in Brooklyn. How do you survive seeing so many people different than you every day?

Unlike the various other ethnic groups you mentioned, and unlike Reformed, Conservative, Reconstructionist and Modern Orthodox Jews, Chassids tend to move en mass into a given neighborhood, and thus to change the basic nature of the neighborhood. Examples: Monsey, Crown Heights, the Five Towns, etc.

I would like Park Slope to remain essentially the very diverse community it is today... except perhaps more people of color than we see today.

I do not wish it to become the next Borough Park.

What are you so afraid of, black hats,big families, spiritual guidance? This is about a roadway. The people of a community are saying cars are safer than bicycles. NY1 link shows a guy saying it. On that logic it will be reversed with a little hipster out cry. There is nothing anti-Torah/Jewish about a bike path. If somebody feels so, let them explain and their argument will unravel at first use. If it's really about safety on both sides them fearing bicycles and cycles fearing cars. At a second glance DOT or politicians will have to explain their position. Yes the people of this community are in danger because of bicycles and their paths or bicycles are in danger because of the auto traffic and the lack of defined roadways. Herpes,and fear will get everybody into your I am afraid....well because of the invasion of Park Slope.I am afraid because look at what "they"did in the 5 Towns or Crown Heights. Are you serious? What is wrong with Borough Park ? All Jews are allowed not just the 'kinds" you like. Keep your eye(s) on the prize the restoration of a safe through way from Borough to Borough,and compromise by a group that wants to isolate itself from it's fellow citizens. I don't like any A-hole walking out in front of me while I am jammin' down the road regardless or creed,color or religion. Go get yourself a 6 of Hebrew and some knishes from Yonah Schimmel and learn to love . If you can't make that, head to Franklin Pk for the candle lighting people are harder to hate when you are looking at them,if you leave there full of fear..well give up. Click on the Rabbi's video links here those are not scary people.

Jamzer wrote: [quote=booklaw]But I do have an occasional moment of concern at the increasing frequency with which I see "black hats" in the Slope.

Let’s have some fun and replace "black hats" in the above sentence with (in no particular order):
a. Catholics
b. Muslims
c. atheists
d. blacks
e. Asians
f. poor people
g. gays

It amazes me that there are bigots living in Brooklyn. How do you survive seeing so many people different than you every day?

No, the Black Hats are not like those groups. They are a self contained, social, political and economic group. The only reason they come to Park Slope would be to proselytize.

Replace the Black Hats with
- The Amish
- Moonies
- The followers of Jim Jones.
- That crazy family from Kansas

I don't know if Booklaw is Jewish or not (hmmm lawyer? Yeah, like I don’t know), but to be fair, harshing on the Hasids is a bit different if you're Jewish. It's more like infighting than bigotry. They’re not terribly fond of us either. I have Orthodox relatives who look down on me because I’m not Jewie enough for them. It's insulting and I can understand why a lot of Jews don't like them.

However, clearly some dislike them a lot more intensely than others. It doesn't really affect me personally, so I don't care too much, nor do I worry about them taking over my neighborhood or doing anything sinister. If anything, I find them pretty fascinating because they’re still part of my culture.

But who cares if they find cycling clothes indecent? It drives me crazy that with all the tailors among them, they insist on wearing ill-fitted suits. So they have their opinion, and I have mine. That’s life. Besides, it’s hard to argue with them because most cycling-specific garb is just ghastly - who does finds spandex decent anyway?

But if you really want to test that theory, and make a statement, you should get a bunch of cyclists to ride in line through the neighborhood, dressed up in Hassidics clothing - hat and all. Then they couldn’t complain about decency. Plus it would be a real hoot.

Repainted VIDEO!!!!

winstonsmith wrote: and

Is removing the bike lane gonna result in less bikers or just a more dangerous road for everyone?

Very good point.

I'd love a study on # of bikers before and after.

It's the longest bike lane in the city. Goes all the way to Sheepshead Bay. People are going to be biking on it from very far away, they're not going to get to that part of Bedford Avenue and detour for 12 blocks. They're going to go right on through.

Boygabriel wrote: [quote=Julius Orange]But who cares if they find cycling clothes indecent?

I couldn't care less what they think, the problem is that this is the reason they advocated and got removal of one of the most important bike lanes in the borough.

What reason would you find acceptable then? My point is that don't think there's any good reason to remove the lanes. So whatever reason they give for not wanting it is irrelevant. I wasn't saying I don't care about the removal of the lanes, just that I don't care about whatever selfish reason was given for its removal. I'm hoping a backlash will get them back - officially and legally.

Besides, as it has been pointed out, erasing the lines won't stop the cyclists. We don't live in a world of Road Runner physics where you can erase a tunnel and force a coyote to smash into the side of a mountain. Cyclists will not get sucked into an alternate dimensional void once the lines disappear ... though sometimes that neighborhood can feel make you feel like you have been.

winstonsmith wrote: [quote=Jamzer][quote=booklaw]But I do have an occasional moment of concern at the increasing frequency with which I see "black hats" in the Slope.

Let’s have some fun and replace "black hats" in the above sentence with (in no particular order):
a. Catholics
b. Muslims
c. atheists
d. blacks
e. Asians
f. poor people
g. gays

It amazes me that there are bigots living in Brooklyn. How do you survive seeing so many people different than you every day?

No, the Black Hats are not like those groups. They are a self contained, social, political and economic group. The only reason they come to Park Slope would be to proselytize.

Replace the Black Hats with
- The Amish
- Moonies
- The followers of Jim Jones.
- That crazy family from Kansas

You betray your bigotry by equating orthodox Jews with these miscreants.

Fearing a group of people because they are different is bigotry any way you slice it.

*** edited to clarify that I don't consider the Amish (or Moonies for that matter) miscreants. Just the other two****

catwalkertexasranger wrote: So cartoon logic is..logical? Why not de-energize traffic lights at underused intersections? No need to pay to maintain and power the traffic signal it will save lots of cash,plus light won't be visible on Friday nights all the way thru Saturday for religious reasons.

I have to honestly say I can't understand a word of what this is saying. I know all the words, but their order makes no sense to me.