Scary neighbours: should I call child services?
Comments
-
metulj wrote: .... I have 2 kids and I will be the first to tell you that a pop on the rear very, very occasionally is the only way you can maintain control at certain times.
Actually - hitting a child is good evidence that you have in reality LOST CONTROL. If one of your kids see you hit another as a way to "maintain control" can you really blame them if they hit each other to solve their problems? -
stacey wrote:
You got in a fight with the woman. That's helping save the kid from violence?
How did it make it worse? -
Jamzer wrote: [quote=metulj].... I have 2 kids and I will be the first to tell you that a pop on the rear very, very occasionally is the only way you can maintain control at certain times.
Actually - hitting a child is good evidence that you have in reality LOST CONTROL. If one of your kids see you hit another as a way to "maintain control" can you really blame them if they hit each other to solve their problems?
Bad psychology. I bet you are one of those people who want your child to see you as a big friend. I am, but I am a big friend who you'd better listen to because it is my job to see that you make it to adulthood in one piece. So when you run away from me on the subway platform after I told you to stand still while I am fixing your sister's skirt that keeps falling down, I am not disciplining you because I am out of control of my emotions. I am doing it because I is my job to make sure that you are not a statistic.
I am in control of my emotions if I spank my child. You are assuming that anger is a "bad" emotion and a sign of a loss of control. You are wrong. You are also making a causal connection between spanking and kids whacking each other over the head for taking a doll away. Please demonstrate how this is the case. -
Innocent X wrote: [quote=stacey]
You got in a fight with the woman. That's helping save the kid from violence?
How did it make it worse?
No I said shoving match - there were no punches thrown and she shoved me first when I nicely said - "take it easy she is just a child" to which she pushed me and called me a stupid bitch, I told her again to leave the child alone - she went to push me, I grabbed her arm and pushed her back at which time the cops were pulling up. So not only will I stand up again for a child I will also protect myself. -
You're awesome.
-
Innocent X wrote: You're awesome.
Stacey is awesome!
-
alafairnadia wrote: [quote=Innocent X]You're awesome.
Stacey is awesome!
Aww thanks but I still have a long way to reach your awesomeness -
stacey wrote: [quote=alafairnadia][quote=Innocent X]You're awesome.
Stacey is awesome!
Aww thanks but I still have a long way to reach your awesomeness
true awesomeness can't be measured. 8) 8)
-
I'm in the spanking corner. I think that there are a lot of kids that push limits and test boundaries simply because they weren't disciplined. Spanking is not called on for every infraction, but sometimes there are things that kids do that are dangerous both to themselves and others that are serious enough to make spanking necessary.
-
Subject: bad bad bad
I saw a reality/set up segment on a news program about this once. very interesting...they had set up a fake babysitter with a kid actor in a park --- even watching this and knowing it was STAGED was hard --- the babysitter is screaming at the kid that he's"stupid" etc...reactions varied. First of all no men said anything, they just watched. There were a few mom's who went over and said stuff, but finally a mom who happened to also be a psychatrist made the most progress..she knew from her training, that the best thing to do is call the police and try to keep an eye on the abuser/child so when the police arrive they know what's going on...
on another note --- a confrontation on the 2 train --- yesterday ---- woman told her child to "SHUT UP!" - screaming at the little kid --- another rider says, "i'd like to see you talk to someone your own age like that" --- the mother walks over - proceeds to SCREAM in the other woman's face --- like an inch away from her face --- for the duration of the ride. She was just waiting for the woman to push her so she could press charges. As the "mom" was screaming every profanity you could imagine - she goes, "your lucky my kid is here or I would...blah blah blah..."
Just to say it - you know that woman on the train would never do that to someone who could take her --- just a big - miserable BULLY.
Call Child Services - you will always wish you did - if you don't. Especially if something happens to the kids. You can do it w/o giving your info--- or you can call 311 and they will help you too. -
also from the point of view of a supervisor at a mental health clinic serving kids: when in doubt, call ACS. your call can be anonymous and of a purely consultative nature. when you call, you just say: "hey, i am not even sure this is reportable, but i saw...." ACS decides whether or not something is reportable and will take or decline to take the report based on their criteria. as another poster mentioned, what is extremely important is that if there ARE previous reports filed, this will aid any investigative/preventative/punitive intervention. sometimes, ACS really needs a lot of 'noise' around a case before they'll take any substantial actions (and, as we've seen, sometimes THAT doesn't even help). so, at minimum, you would find out it is not reportable. at maximum? you could be providing the impetus for more serious and potentially heroic intervention.
worth all risks, imho. -
wow, it took me a while to log back in here - thanks for so much input on this and glad it triggered a discussion on an important topic... I'm absolutely ready to file a report now and may do it this morning before I go to work (not something for the coworkers to overhear).. my husband, though, is concerned about retaliation. He fears that they'll know it's us and do something to harm us or our child. I wasn't thinking that way before but it's starting to make me nervous too.
Some other snippets for you all to paint a better picture:
Last week we heard her (the mom) screaming at top volume at someone (not her kid) in the street, and watched out the window as her husband narrowly managed to prevent an altercation. (Not sure if it was a friend or just a random passerby..) last night said husband was swaying around totally drunk on the stoop.. I had to time things right in order to get past the left and right staggering and up the stairs - whole building reeked of alcohol.. we used to be upset because of the horrendous stink of marijuana (I don't mean an aroma, I mean the kind of stink that hurts your nose), especially first thing in the morning but then we realized that all was quiet and tranquil at those times and so have come to look forward to it.. (no we're not opposed to pot - only when the smell of it burns out our eyeballs and makes us fall down - don't forget we've got a one year old here too)...
so you see how things are.
We're concerned that they'll think it's us. All the other tenants in this building have either lived here for ages (the ones they're trying to evict) - or there's a couple on the second floor that we don't know. I'm not sure how reasonable of a fear it is - that they'll come after us - I mean it could be someone who walks that way to work every day, overhearing the screaming, witnessing the face slapping, etc..
OK,noww that I've written this I see that this isn't really a good reason to not report people that we know are abusing their kids. Stacey, your post about all those grim child murders really shook me up. I'm thinking of the times I walk past their door and hear quiet little whimpering sounds.. it's crazy that I haven't reported this already.
Everyone: I'm calling child services right now. (but not before thinking "well, it's pretty quiet down there right now.." - interesting how I'm still trying to avoid it...)
Consider them reported. -
if you got a kid and is worry than follow your gut and not do it. if you have to live with those people for a long time to come and dont want trouble and is the only gentrifiers there. they probably would suspect you. the new outsiders!
-
Is this family black?
-
poh, how did it go? Your bravery may save their child. Thank you for doing it.
-
I know it's easy for me to say, but from what you have told us you did the right thing.
Ugh. I just saw an PSA on a bus the other day that said "Never shake a baby.", and I got really angry and disgusted. What the hell kind of place do we live in? Who the hell would shake a baby?
I know. The "boyfriend". Always the GD "boyfriend"... -
If it were always the GD "boyfriend," it wouldn't happen as often. What's scarier is that it's usually the mom or dad. All the parents out there know the desperation you feel when you can't make the baby stop crying. Some actually shake the baby to make it stop. Child abuse happens not just by design or neglect, but by accident -- by parents who really don't know that what they're doing can hurt the child. If the "back to sleep" campaign can work to help prevent SIDS, maybe this one will work to save kids' lives too. All this stuff happens far more than people know.
If poh, or Stacey, or any of us, reports what we think is abuse, we're doing the right thing. If we're wrong, that will come out. But if we're right, we're possibly saving someone's life. No exaggeration. -
thanks guys. supposedly an investigation will happen in the next 24 hours. :?
-
iowagirl wrote: If it were always the GD "boyfriend," it wouldn't happen as often. What's scarier is that it's usually the mom or dad. All the parents out there know the desperation you feel when you can't make the baby stop crying. Some actually shake the baby to make it stop. Child abuse happens not just by design or neglect, but by accident -- by parents who really don't know that what they're doing can hurt the child. If the "back to sleep" campaign can work to help prevent SIDS, maybe this one will work to save kids' lives too. All this stuff happens far more than people know.
Yeah, you're right of course. Maybe somebody really doesn't know about the whole non-baby shaking thing, and at least the signs can't hurt. I just managed to get myself a little worked up, what with the subject matter and all. Won't be the last time I reckon.
If poh, or Stacey, or any of us, reports what we think is abuse, we're doing the right thing. If we're wrong, that will come out. But if we're right, we're possibly saving someone's life. No exaggeration. -
Stacey, going back to something you said earlier
stacey wrote: ACS does not take the children away unless they are truly abused. Most of the time they will monitor the family (and we all know what that means) but it is up to the community to watch out for these children.."
what exactly does that mean? ACS said that i have to report anything at all that i hear or see from now on.. but what is going to be going on in my building? anyone have first hand experience with a situation like this? -
metulj wrote: Bad psychology. I bet you are one of those people who want your child to see you as a big friend. I am, but I am a big friend who you'd better listen to because it is my job to see that you make it to adulthood in one piece. So when you run away from me on the subway platform after I told you to stand still while I am fixing your sister's skirt that keeps falling down, I am not disciplining you because I am out of control of my emotions. I am doing it because I is my job to make sure that you are not a statistic.
Maybe it is just where I come from. I was never hit as a child and my father did not throw beer cans at me. I think hitting a child makes them scared of you, but it is not a good way to discipline or "maintain control." I am NOT one of those granola crunching, never say no to a child, kind of parent and I not a crusader against corporal punishment. If my son ever runs into the street or away from me on the subway, I don't know what I would do. A smack on the butt seems like a real possibility. But I have, so far, not hit him to "maintain control," and he has still managed (despite my many failings as a parent) turned out to be a generally nice, respectful, and well behaved child. Maybe I am just lucky though. I think it is kind of funny, in a sick ironic way, that someone would smack a child as a punishment for hitting another child. Sounds like a mixed message and an out of control situation to me.
I am in control of my emotions if I spank my child. You are assuming that anger is a "bad" emotion and a sign of a loss of control. You are wrong. You are also making a causal connection between spanking and kids whacking each other over the head for taking a doll away. Please demonstrate how this is the case.
Anyway - back on point. I generally would not interfere with a parent being a bad parent, but beating a child in public should not be tolerated by anyone regardless of where you stand on corporal punishment. -
poh wrote: Stacey, going back to something you said earlier
what exactly does that mean? ACS said that i have to report anything at all that i hear or see from now on.. but what is going to be going on in my building? anyone have first hand experience with a situation like this?
[quote=stacey]ACS does not take the children away unless they are truly abused. Most of the time they will monitor the family (and we all know what that means) but it is up to the community to watch out for these children.."
First I applaud your courage to make the call. Even if the child is not being abused it might be a wake up call for the parent.
The meaning of what is said is that ACS is EXTREMELY overworked and many workers have cases that tend to slip through the cracks and it is up to us (as a community) to report these people when we see anything (just as the ACS worker said).
If I am not mistaken when it comes to physical/mental/sexual abuse ACS makes a visit to the home. They inspect the home and the child. They call the child's doctor and school and/or day care to see if they have seen anything that resembles abuse. If the home visit and telephone calls in fact point to no signs of abuse they will then make one more unannounced visit to the home and if they still do not find any instances of abuse they will close the case. If the caseworker does suspect that abuse is occurring then a full out investigation is done and that is when they may questions neighbors about what they have heard or seen. -
Hmmm.. I'd say that the smacks in the face are clearly abuse. No questions there... I guess the question is whether or not ACS will catch them in the act.. thanks for clarifying what you meant
-
Even if ACS doesn't catch them in the act, during an unannounced visit they may see signs of substance abuse, which can help to bolster a case of child abuse.
About spanking, I have three boys aged 5 to 11, and while I've been tempted to smack them, I never have. The smack would only have vented my frustration temporarily while teaching them nothing. They respond to the look, a raised voice, time-outs, grounding, loss of privileges such as tv or computer time, denial of allowance, just about anything I can think of. To me, spanking kids sends different messages I don't want them to learn: it's okay for adults to hit kids; do as I say, not as I do; it's okay to resolve conflicts with violence; if I hit you because you hit your brother, it's okay for you to keep hitting him since I did it to you.
Kid runs into the street? Strap him into his stroller. Let him know you won't let him come with you next time. He doesn't get ice cream when his sister or brother does, and remind him why. I think there are methods other than spanking.
I understand that all people are different: personalities, parenting styles, interests, cultures, all that stuff. My parents never spanked me, and my husband's never spanked him. I neither expect nor want my kids to see me as their big friend, but I want them to trust me and be able to talk to me about anything they want. If I hit them, they'll never trust me again. And I say "No" all the time. When they return from other people's houses, I consistently hear compliments about how well-behaved they are. Kids do most of their testing at home. As long as they keep that up, and act civilized elsewhere (and here too as much as possible), I figure I'm doing that part of my job well.
Sorry this is long, and if I sound preachy. -
...not at all preachy. actually, an excellent, thoughtful, and informative post. i hope people who might benefit from it will read it. i don't have children, but work with kids (and their parents) who are soemtimes ACS mandated. it is much harder to parent as you describe; many people dont have the personal resources to do it. really unfortunate, as it creates a multi-generational transmission of counterproductive parenting. i wish we could devote more of our societal resources to truly helping such parents.
-
poh wrote: - whole building reeked of alcohol.. we used to be upset because of the horrendous stink of marijuana (I don't mean an aroma, I mean the kind of stink that hurts your nose), especially first thing in the morning but then we realized that all was quiet and tranquil at those times and so have come to look forward to it.. (no we're not opposed to pot - only when the smell of it burns out our eyeballs and makes us fall down -
As someone who has spent more than enough time around drug users the odor that burns is probably crack or someone cooking heroin not pot. -
withachaser wrote:
many people dont have the personal resources to do it. really unfortunate, as it creates a multi-generational transmission of counterproductive parenting. i wish we could devote more of our societal resources to truly helping such parents.
I worked at Safe Horizon (when it was still called Victim Services) in the domestic violence division, and I'm sure that you have seen over and over in your work at the clinic that the multigenerational transmission of bad habits isn't limited to counterproductive parenting. The same thing goes for domestic violence. Kids learn what they see, and if they grow up being hit, or seeing their mothers hit, that's what they do as adults, because that's what they know. It was so painful seeing teenage girls believing that it was okay that their boyfriends abused them, since that's what they witnessed happening to their mothers. And the boys grow up thinking that hitting girls and women is appropriate behavior. (I didn't make it clear above: while I disagree with spanking as a useful method of discipline, I do not equate spanking with abuse.)
I didn't mean to take this thread in another direction, necessarily, but abuse is abuse. It's all part of the same thing: power and control. You take control where you can, and some people have no control over anything else in their lives -- or feel that they don't -- so abusing those they love is their way of controlling their world. It's a terrible cycle that destroys lives.
Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 40K All Categories
- 27.1K Neighborhoods
- 5.1K Crown Heights/Prospect Lefferts Gardens
- 7.1K Prospect Heights
- 2.3K Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy
- 8K Park Slope
- 549 Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Bushwick
- 442 Flatbush/Midwood/Ditmas Park
- 657 BoCoCa (Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens)
- 151 Red Hook
- 104 Gowanus
- 304 Bay Ridge/Bensonhurst
- 130 Coney Island, Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay
- 270 Brooklyn Heights, DUMBO and Downtown
- 598 Windsor Terrace / Kensington
- 673 Greenwood Heights and Sunset Park
- 749 Brooklyn and Beyond
- 6.3K Stuff
- 86 Brooklyn Back When
- 1.2K Brooklyn Pets
- 257 Brooklyn Kids
- 241 Brooklyn Eats
- 51 Brooklyn Booze
- 3.6K The Lounge / Random Stuff
- 611 Brooklyn Politics
- 122 Brooklyn Sports and Fitness
- 111 Brooklyn Photos
- 339 Site Issues
- 8 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- 6.2K Listings
- 1.1K APARTMENTS and REAL ESTATE
- 1.3K Sales Openings Events
- 2.3K The Classifieds