Key Food?
How is the Key Food store on 5th ave?
Comments
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Subject: OH
Sorry- accidentally posted too soon.
As in, is it a good alternative to the Park Slop food co-op? I like fresh produce and good meat/dairy, but don't have the time to work the co-op shift. Is Key Food a good grocery store? Is there something better in North Slope? -
Most Keyfoods are dumps and a tad pricey. You might want to try Fairway. You might even want to try the Farmer's Market in GAP every Saturday.
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key food is expensive, the farmer's market is very expensive.
i don't belong to the coop but a lot of people i know do and like it.
i've found the best prices and produce in the area to be at the c-town on 9th. really, i LOVE that c-town. love love love. and they deliver for $2 -
I've said it before and I'll say it again: FreshDirect. Drive those f*cking Key Foods out of business.
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i love fresh direct, but they aren't all that cheap on produce.
and, worse, they have no "store" brands, which means you're always paying twice as much, for example, for a can of corn or beans.
in warm weather, the best, cheapest produce is down on 5th ave and 15th. outdoor bodega produce market, cheap prices. -
Subject: To be realistic
5th Avenue's Key Food is clean as a whistle, cleaner than many suburban supermarkets for that matter.
The manager's always in the aisles, looking, talking, chatting, ordering.
They have a good selection of so-called "ethnic" food -- in produce, and in dry goods - whether you have Caribbean or Irish roots, you may find something from home there.
They do deliver in PS.
They don't have noisy refrigerated trucks seemingly driven by recidivists like FreshDirect that always block the streets.
They're not like the rathole that poses as a Key Food on 7th Avenue, or that nasty D'Agostinos on 7th.
And you don't have to be a member of the CPUSA to shop there. -
Subject: Oops
Posted twice. Bad computer! -
Subject: Re: To be realistic
dw438 wrote: 5th Avenue's Key Food is clean as a whistle, cleaner than many suburban supermarkets for that matter.
Ditto - plus they have really good music
The manager's always in the aisles, looking, talking, chatting, ordering.
They have a good selection of so-called "ethnic" food -- in produce, and in dry goods - whether you have Caribbean or Irish roots, you may find something from home there.
They do deliver in PS.
They don't have noisy refrigerated trucks seemingly driven by recidivists like FreshDirect that always block the streets.
They're not like the rathole that poses as a Key Food on 7th Avenue, or that nasty D'Agostinos on 7th.
And you don't have to be a member of the CPUSA to shop there.
.
If you do have a car I would also recommend Fairway only because they have a larger selection -
and they have tons of organic food, too, if you're into that kind of thing. they definitely cater to the flavor of the neighborhood.
and good fresh fish.
did i mention i love them? i love them. -
The music is definitely a high point. I wonder what station / program that is ?
But um the produce often leaves something to be desired, to be honest.
Good selection of ethnic specialities, considering. -
Subject: Re: To be realistic
dw438 wrote: 5th Avenue's Key Food is clean as a whistle, cleaner than many suburban supermarkets for that matter.
Sorry - in my haste to trash the 7th Ave Key Food, I neglected to notice that this post was about the 5th Ave KF. Apologies to the chatty manager of that fine establishment. The 7th Ave Key Food, however, gets nothing but hatred, rage, and disgust from me. It's selection sucks, it's filthy, the staff is beyond rude.
The manager's always in the aisles, looking, talking, chatting, ordering.
They have a good selection of so-called "ethnic" food -- in produce, and in dry goods - whether you have Caribbean or Irish roots, you may find something from home there.
They do deliver in PS.
They don't have noisy refrigerated trucks seemingly driven by recidivists like FreshDirect that always block the streets.
They're not like the rathole that poses as a Key Food on 7th Avenue, or that nasty D'Agostinos on 7th.
And you don't have to be a member of the CPUSA to shop there.
I do, however, find it funny the FreshDirect is criticized for it's truck deliveries in favor of a Key Food with a massive, anti-urban parking lot. In my mind, both Key Food should be demolished and replaced with decent grocery stores with apartments above. And no parking. -
Subject: Re: To be realistic
8thandPrez wrote: I do, however, find it funny the FreshDirect is criticized for it's truck deliveries in favor of a Key Food with a massive, anti-urban parking lot. In my mind, both Key Food should be demolished and replaced with decent grocery stores with apartments above. And no parking.
I disagree it is way too hard for me to get to the Key Food without a car and I have a lot I have to purchase and it doesn't fit in a granny cart. I can understand about smaller grocery stores but unfortunately they charge much more and I cannot afford to pay those prices. I can understand apartments above but parking should be privided for below. -
Subject: Re: To be realistic
8thandPrez wrote: I do, however, find it funny the FreshDirect is criticized for it's truck deliveries in favor of a Key Food with a massive, anti-urban parking lot. In my mind, both Key Food should be demolished and replaced with decent grocery stores with apartments above. And no parking.
Bull-
Yeah. Demolish the 5th Avenue Key Food.
Replace it with another with apartments atop, like the 7th Avenue D'Agostino's. Great move. Ugleeee.
Yeah, delivery trucks taking up a city block, idling in the street, causing congestion AND pollution, beacuse they have no loading dock off-street. And while you're at it ...
Yeah, new apartments at market rate. With NO parking. In PS.
One chooses to have a car in the city or not. People have jobs outside decent mass transit, they have kids, relatives outside the area, a whole million reasons to have wheels.
The right hasn't been legislated away by some loonie lefties.
What are you smoking, kid? -
The Co-op is still far cheaper for most items. The produce is second-to-none, partly because of the very high turnover rate and partly because the produce manager has many good relationships with local farms. And for those of us who have a few qualms about the general mass corporatization of everyday life, it's a way to participate in a different economic model. It can be a pain in the ass, but at least it's more or less our pain in the ass.
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Subject: Re: To be realistic
stacey wrote:
I shop for a family of four plus two large dogs and three cats. There is no way I could manage this with a granny cart!
I disagree it is way too hard for me to get to the Key Food without a car and I have a lot I have to purchase and it doesn't fit in a granny cart.
I don't know the 5th Ave. Key Food -- I went in the one on 7th Ave once and never again -- how do they stay in business? I agree with the recommendation for the C-Town on 9th Street. I do most of my shopping there, supplemented with some produce from the little fruit & veggie store on 7th Ave around 11th St. (though most of the produce at C-Town actually looks pretty good). -
Subject: Re: To be realistic
dw438 wrote:
So let's enumerate the points of your argument:
Bull-
Yeah. Demolish the 5th Avenue Key Food.
Replace it with another with apartments atop, like the 7th Avenue D'Agostino's. Great move. Ugleeee.
Yeah, delivery trucks taking up a city block, idling in the street, causing congestion AND pollution, beacuse they have no loading dock off-street. And while you're at it ...
Yeah, new apartments at market rate. With NO parking. In PS.
One chooses to have a car in the city or not. People have jobs outside decent mass transit, they have kids, relatives outside the area, a whole million reasons to have wheels.
The right hasn't been legislated away by some loonie lefties.
What are you smoking, kid?- New apartments are ugly
Trucks on the street are bad
Market rate apartments are bad
More parking is needed
First, new apartments are a good thing, even -gasp- market rate apartments. They're especially appropriate on the avenues where things like the Key Food parking lot and Commerce Bank drive-thru are like missing teeth. Arguing against apartments above retail is like arguing against every part of New York City that is vibrant and dynamic and successful.
Second, trucks on the street are a good thing. Trucks have idled on city streets and have delivered goods via the streets forever - loading docks destroy the pedestrian condition and interrupt street frontages. They're exactly what you don't want.
And as for parking, if you want to have your car in the city great, fine by me. But you should expect to have to park it on the street or pay for a garage. Parking should never be plentiful, cheap or easy in the city. Never.
99% of America is developed with single-use lots with offstreet loading and parking lots galore. New York should be the ONE place where we embrace what makes a successful, dense city and encourage that type of development. Grocery stores with parking lots and banks with drive-thrus have no business in Park Slope. - New apartments are ugly
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Actually, the Met Food on 7th Ave by 2nd seems to have good stuff. Except they are pricey. I believe they deliver and the owners and workers have always been nice to me.
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Another reality of city life is that there are some neighborhoods with NO decent supermarkets and only high priced bodegas with expired foodstuffs. The Key Food on 5th Ave was built at a time when it would not have been unusual for folks to drive long distances to go grocery shopping. Growing up in Bed-Stuy my parents did there weekly shopping in stores as far away as South Ozone. The would travel wherever they could find good food at the lowest prices. A car was a necessity if they didn't want to give us old meat, wilted produce and bread and milk a day away from going bad.
Until all of Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights, East New York, Brownsville, Canarsie, Flatbush, etc all have decent places to shop within walking distance of the residents, lets not hate on the supermarkets with parking. -
Subject: Re: To be realistic
8thandPrez wrote: [quote=dw438]
So let's enumerate the points of your argument:
Bull-
Yeah. Demolish the 5th Avenue Key Food.
Replace it with another with apartments atop, like the 7th Avenue D'Agostino's. Great move. Ugleeee.
Yeah, delivery trucks taking up a city block, idling in the street, causing congestion AND pollution, beacuse they have no loading dock off-street. And while you're at it ...
Yeah, new apartments at market rate. With NO parking. In PS.
One chooses to have a car in the city or not. People have jobs outside decent mass transit, they have kids, relatives outside the area, a whole million reasons to have wheels.
The right hasn't been legislated away by some loonie lefties.
What are you smoking, kid?- New apartments are ugly
Trucks on the street are bad
Market rate apartments are bad
More parking is needed
First, new apartments are a good thing, even -gasp- market rate apartments. They're especially appropriate on the avenues where things like the Key Food parking lot and Commerce Bank drive-thru are like missing teeth. Arguing against apartments above retail is like arguing against every part of New York City that is vibrant and dynamic and successful.
Second, trucks on the street are a good thing. Trucks have idled on city streets and have delivered goods via the streets forever - loading docks destroy the pedestrian condition and interrupt street frontages. They're exactly what you don't want.
And as for parking, if you want to have your car in the city great, fine by me. But you should expect to have to park it on the street or pay for a garage. Parking should never be plentiful, cheap or easy in the city. Never.
99% of America is developed with single-use lots with offstreet loading and parking lots galore. New York should be the ONE place where we embrace what makes a successful, dense city and encourage that type of development. Grocery stores with parking lots and banks with drive-thrus have no business in Park Slope.
This is one small part of the city.
Ever been to Queens, other parts of Brooklyn, the Bronx?
I have. I've lived there. There any many parts of the city which are dynamic and successful, and yeah people live in single family homes and have driveways and drive to work, or the market.
Utopia is one thing, but reality is that people drive to jobs, drive to schools and activities for their kids, visit relatives, etc.
Some people need their cars to make a living.
I guess that's not part of your life, but it is a choice for others.
Would you deny that choice?
I don't want more parking in PS, in fact the status quo is acceptable.
Living above a store is a choice. And in PS, there is no money in building low-density with retail on the ground floor. Developers unfortunately like building BIG if they're going to combine retail and residential, e.g. the damned ugly Atlantic Yards project. The market doesn't demand it. Developers cannot make money, which is all they care about, considering the amount of time and trouble they spend trying to find loopholes in zoning laws.
RE: trucks. I guess you like idling, smelly trucks blocking traffic.
Loading docks can be intrgrated into the grid via alleys and decent planning.
A Commerce Bank drive thru? Where in Park Slope?
Anyway, I believe there has to be a happy medium.
And, of course, there has to be choice.
Are you against choice? - New apartments are ugly
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Subject: Whoops
Did post twice before edit. -
commerce bank is on 5th ave and garfield, i think.
their "change" machines, where you put in all of your spare change, are FREE. no percentage taken. and they're so friendly there you might not believe you're in the city. almost like stepford-bankers.
but i love that cash machine. FREE -
I agree w/DW438. The Key Food on fifth is fantastic. The manager is extremely helpful and they have a great selection of items and I love the convenience of a parking lot. C-Town on 9th is also very good.
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brooklynpotter wrote: commerce bank is on 5th ave and garfield, i think.
We just opened an account there. This bank is wonderful! Their hours...7 am to 8pm are extremely convenient. ( opened 7/4 also) It's clean and the people are super friendly. Will most likely close our Citibank account.
their "change" machines, where you put in all of your spare change, are FREE. no percentage taken. and they're so friendly there you might not believe you're in the city. almost like stepford-bankers.
but i love that cash machine. FREE -
Subject: Re: To be realistic
dw438 wrote: This is one small part of the city.
Yes, I've been to those places. Those parts of NYC are dynamic, successful, vibrant, etc, but they are built on a completely different model than the inner-ring brownstone neighborhoods that are almost uniformly mid-density, row house, street parking districts. The Key Food on 5th is unsuccessful from an urban standpoint because it completely and totally does NOT fit in with its context.
Ever been to Queens, other parts of Brooklyn, the Bronx?
I have. I've lived there. There any many parts of the city which are dynamic and successful, and yeah people live in single family homes and have driveways and drive to work, or the market.dw438 wrote: Utopia is one thing, but reality is that people drive to jobs, drive to schools and activities for their kids, visit relatives, etc.
I'm not looking to deny anyone the choice to own a car in the city. I, myself, may end up inheriting a car this year. But, I don't expect parking to be easy or inexpensive and I would never want Park Slope to have to accomodate the changes that would be needed to make parking cheap and easy. I'll fight it out on the street or will suck it up and pay for a garage.
Some people need their cars to make a living.
I guess that's not part of your life, but it is a choice for others.
Would you deny that choice?dw438 wrote: Living above a store is a choice. And in PS, there is no money in building low-density with retail on the ground floor. Developers unfortunately like building BIG if they're going to combine retail and residential, e.g. the damned ugly Atlantic Yards project. The market doesn't demand it. Developers cannot make money, which is all they care about, considering the amount of time and trouble they spend trying to find loopholes in zoning laws.
Wow - I don't even know where to begin with this comment. As a person who writes zoning for a living and as an urban designer, I have to say that there IS money to be made in building mid-density (which is what Park Slope is). Look everywhere in PS and you'll see the new developments. They're mostly on the side streets between 4th and 5th and most of them are pretty unappealing aesthetically and they don't have retail, but they are being built. Development is very expensive in NYC, which may explain why no one has ventured onto 5th or 7th ave. It mystifies me as to why the Commerce Bank on 5th wasnt' built with apartments above - a real shame and loss for the neighborhood in my book. The Key Foods on 5th and 7th are prime sites for new development. Hell, I'd even say that a garage would be appropriate in the 5th Ave site to replace the existing parking.
I won't touch the Atlantic Yards issue... I've posted enough on that elsewhere on this board.
dw438 wrote: RE: trucks. I guess you like idling, smelly trucks blocking traffic.
I think smelly, idling trucks are part of New York streets. While I love alley cities, New York wasn't built on this model. Trucks, cars, taxis, and pedestrians share space... it's noisy, it's chaotic, but it's New York.
Loading docks can be intrgrated into the grid via alleys and decent planning.dw438 wrote: A Commerce Bank drive thru? Where in Park Slope?
Sorry - the original Commerce Bank proposal on 5th included a drive through. Now we just have another parking lot and a through-block driveway. It's better than the parking lot that was there before, but it's still completely out of character with the context of PS avenues.
Anyway, I believe there has to be a happy medium.
And, of course, there has to be choice.
Are you against choice? -
Subject: Re: To be realistic
8thandPrez wrote: [quote=dw438]This is one small part of the city.
Yes, I've been to those places. Those parts of NYC are dynamic, successful, vibrant, etc, but they are built on a completely different model than the inner-ring brownstone neighborhoods that are almost uniformly mid-density, row house, street parking districts. The Key Food on 5th is unsuccessful from an urban standpoint because it completely and totally does NOT fit in with its context.
Ever been to Queens, other parts of Brooklyn, the Bronx?
I have. I've lived there. There any many parts of the city which are dynamic and successful, and yeah people live in single family homes and have driveways and drive to work, or the market.dw438 wrote: Utopia is one thing, but reality is that people drive to jobs, drive to schools and activities for their kids, visit relatives, etc.
I'm not looking to deny anyone the choice to own a car in the city. I, myself, may end up inheriting a car this year. But, I don't expect parking to be easy or inexpensive and I would never want Park Slope to have to accomodate the changes that would be needed to make parking cheap and easy. I'll fight it out on the street or will suck it up and pay for a garage.
Some people need their cars to make a living.
I guess that's not part of your life, but it is a choice for others.
Would you deny that choice?dw438 wrote: Living above a store is a choice. And in PS, there is no money in building low-density with retail on the ground floor. Developers unfortunately like building BIG if they're going to combine retail and residential, e.g. the damned ugly Atlantic Yards project. The market doesn't demand it. Developers cannot make money, which is all they care about, considering the amount of time and trouble they spend trying to find loopholes in zoning laws.
Wow - I don't even know where to begin with this comment. As a person who writes zoning for a living and as an urban designer, I have to say that there IS money to be made in building mid-density (which is what Park Slope is). Look everywhere in PS and you'll see the new developments. They're mostly on the side streets between 4th and 5th and most of them are pretty unappealing aesthetically and they don't have retail, but they are being built. Development is very expensive in NYC, which may explain why no one has ventured onto 5th or 7th ave. It mystifies me as to why the Commerce Bank on 5th wasnt' built with apartments above - a real shame and loss for the neighborhood in my book. The Key Foods on 5th and 7th are prime sites for new development. Hell, I'd even say that a garage would be appropriate in the 5th Ave site to replace the existing parking.
I won't touch the Atlantic Yards issue... I've posted enough on that elsewhere on this board.dw438 wrote: RE: trucks. I guess you like idling, smelly trucks blocking traffic.
I think smelly, idling trucks are part of New York streets. While I love alley cities, New York wasn't built on this model. Trucks, cars, taxis, and pedestrians share space... it's noisy, it's chaotic, but it's New York.
Loading docks can be intrgrated into the grid via alleys and decent planning.dw438 wrote: A Commerce Bank drive thru? Where in Park Slope?
Sorry - the original Commerce Bank proposal on 5th included a drive through. Now we just have another parking lot and a through-block driveway. It's better than the parking lot that was there before, but it's still completely out of character with the context of PS avenues.
Anyway, I believe there has to be a happy medium.
And, of course, there has to be choice.
Are you against choice?
Boy, one can see how quotes can be twisted.
My points are proven well - no one wants to build low-density with retail on the ground floor in PS. You even write so yourself - there's no incentive. You're right - the buildings are uglee. Point proven again.
Retail developers dont want the headaches of home development.
Vice versa. They only want to build BIG. Kudos to those who want to do the small thing ... but I don't forsee developers tearing down two successful supermarkets to put up something else. And if it's anything else in PS, ite'll probably be more doctors' offices.
Parking is what it is. Nowhere do I want huge parking lots in PS. Not the right place; there's other places nearby to park for $$ (nowhere did I ask for FREE parking) and they're relatively cheap.
I guess you like Fresh Direct. And its trucks. -
Subject: Re: To be realistic
dw438 wrote: Boy, one can see how quotes can be twisted.
Sorry - I read your post in haste. I'll agree with you that the developers who build mixed-use developments don't find it financially viable to do 5-story buildings. Personally, I find it surprising, but New York isn't exactly known for having a particularly creative development community. For what it's worth, you see this type of contextual development in many other cities (Los Angeles, San Francisco, DC, Miami). My point was that mid-density development is attractive in Park Slope and the side streets are a testament to that. My guess is that the developers who are comfortable with the proformas for that scale of development follow a pretty set formula that doesn't include retail.
My points are proven well - no one wants to build low-density with retail on the ground floor in PS. You even write so yourself - there's no incentive. You're right - the buildings are uglee. Point proven again.
Retail developers dont want the headaches of home development.
Vice versa. They only want to build BIG. Kudos to those who want to do the small thing ... but I don't forsee developers tearing down two successful supermarkets to put up something else. And if it's anything else in PS, ite'll probably be more doctors' offices.
Parking is what it is. Nowhere do I want huge parking lots in PS. Not the right place; there's other places nearby to park for $$ (nowhere did I ask for FREE parking) and they're relatively cheap.
I guess you like Fresh Direct. And its trucks.
That said, while I think most of the new developments tend towards the vulgar in the ornamentation department, I'd take them anyday over the Key Food or Commerce Bank.
But I do still find it funny that you incredulously responded to my original post by laughing off the prospect of new development without parking. If something were to replace the Key Foods or the Commerce Bank, I would sincerely hope that it didn't include parking. We've got enough parking and there's no need for more. -
the Key Food on 5th avenue is great! Very large store, big parking lot-tons of items to choose from and much cheaper prices than the Key Food on 7th Avenue-which by the way-is a dump, too small to shop in-too expensive and everybody in that place is so bloody rude!
Go to 5th Avenue Key Food or try the new Fairway
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