Ridiculous note on Berkeley Place

findcate wrote: Wow, whyfi i'm impressed that you researched my comments...

Don't flatter yourself.

findcate wrote: Throwing flyers on my stoop is the same as littering all over it, the flyers blow around the street, creating more litter in the neighborhood. It's a waste of paper, and creates more work for the city (and for me) to clean it up. that's why I find it disrespectful.

That's why you find it disrespectful... as far as you're concerned, it really is all about you, isn't it? Hasn't it occurred to you that others don't share your values? I happen to know that many people find menus, coupons, etc. to be of great value, even though you may not... but I keep forgetting - your compass is never off.
Hell, I bet that there are sanitation workers out there that are thankful for the mess on the streets, thankful that their services are needed! But, oh yeah, you don't share their values, so they're wrong, too...

findcate wrote: A bycicle is not litter. It's a mode of transportation that also happens to be good for the environment and people's health.

1) You're right - you don't often need bolt cutters to throw away litter.

2) Does this mean that when I buy an electric car, I'll be welcome to park it on the sidewalk in front of your place the place where you live?

3) I think that it would be even better if people just walked... think of all the resources used to mine the ore, refine, smelt and shape bicycles... and then there's the rubber tires!!!

4) http://adam.about.com/reports/000067_3.htm

Bicycling has been linked to impotence in men and also may affect fertility.

:shock: Doesn't sound very healthy to me!

findcate wrote: I might mind if someone chained it to my stoop (because I don't really thinkmy stoop IS public space since I have to clean it...)

Home owners are responsible for the cleanliness of the sidewalk in front of their home, too... but no, no contradiction there... :roll:

Face it - not everyone has the same values as you, and that doesn't mean that they're wrong. We live in New York City, for goodness sake! There is no "black & white," just many, many shades of grey. You're going to have to learn how to compromise! If you don't like it, move!

Actually, my responses were purposefully extreme, although there is some validity to each and every one. I was hoping that you would get the hint that there are different perspectives other than your own, and that they're no less valid. I was hoping that you'd eventually get off of your high horse and realize that it is about respect and about compromise. It's obviously falling on deaf ears. You seem to be saying, "respect me and what I perceive as mine!" yet when you fail to return the favor, it's a matter of someone being overly territorial. Of course you fail to see the contradiction, but that's because you live in a world black and white that shifts whenever you're inconvenienced.

Oh, I failed to mention this a while ago, but I live on the 3rd floor of a walk up and despite the inconvenience, I've never imposed upon my neighbors by leaving my bike in a public or common space.

you two should be in a ring.

"Of course you fail to see the contradiction, but that's because you live in a world black and white that shifts whenever you're inconvenienced. "

i'm not judging you because of your opinions, you however are making these ridiculous and insulting assumptions about me because of mine. i think i've at least been polite, which you can't seem to do. i don't know who you're thinking about, but it's not me.

it's ironic, the whole thing about this that bugged me was that people who wrote the note couldn't just chill out and realize that other people exist with different needs...which is exactly the thing that some of the others on this thread think the bike owner should have done. it's like the same impulse, just from 2 sides of the coin. both sides being more or less equal.

wouldn't it be great if there were more bike racks around here and if ground floor or basement bike storage were more generally available? i store my bike inside my apartment, but if i didn't have an elevator, i'm not sure i could. i am not a very big person, and carrying a bike up more than one flight of stairs is a HUGE problem for me. and even that only works for when i come home with the bike, not for when i'm out and about.

i wish i had another place to store it, even given the elevator, though, because it's so awkward to get it in and out of here that i almost never use it. in chicago (where both places i lived -- and more places generally -- had communal basement spaces where everyone stashed their bikes), i rode to work and just generally around a lot, but none of the places we looked at here had anything decent for bike storage.

has anyone tried those pulley deals that put it up on your ceiling?

findcate wrote: I might mind if someone chained it to my stoop (because I don't really thinkmy stoop IS public space since I have to clean it...

For what it's worth, if you own a home you are legally responsible for cleaning the sidewalk in front of your house/co-op/condo, whether you define it as public space or not.

In fact, I think that's one argument for giving the people in a house or co-op (if I remember right, 109-111 Berkeley is a largish co-op, right?) consideration if they don't want your bike chained up in front. Even though a sidewalk belongs to the public, we all benefit when owners take both a sense of responsibility and "ownership" toward that patch of concrete. That's what makes them sweep their sidewalks, beyond the minimum they need to avoid a ticket. That's what gets them to pick up litter and cigarette butts, to sweep out gutters, care for street trees they do not own, and plant flowers around street trees. No home owner has to do all that stuff but we're better for it when they do.

I think findcate was right: it is territorial for people to care if someone locks a bike in front of their home. But that territoriality is part of a package that helps keep blocks cared for. Realistically you can't have one without the other--while you may not like this aspect of human nature, if someone outside your home can arrogate that space to themselves, it decreases your sense of ownership: if somebody else can claim a part of the space for their own use, why should you be in charge of prettifying it for them?

Like it or not, it erodes that beneficial sense of territoriality when someone locks up a bike and basically says, "OK, dude, I'm taking the street sign for me from now on. Oh, and clean up that dog crap on your sidewalk; I don't want to look at it next time I come back for my bike."