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Opinions of a personal argument wanted — Brooklynian

Opinions of a personal argument wanted

garth
garth
edited November -1 in The Lounge / Random Stuff
The other night I had an argument with my close friend of many years. I’d like to describe the situation without using his name, and would appreciate if anyone here can tell me their unbiased opinion of this:

My friend says “I’m really short on pocket money right now. Can you lend me $20? I can pay you back in two weeks - when I get my next check.”
I say “Sure. But I’ll have to use an ATM where they charge a few extra bucks for the withdraw.”
He says “I’ll pay you back those extra few bucks, as well.”
I say “Ok. I’ll send you an e-mail tonight - just to keep the exact amount in writing.”
He asks “Why do you need to write the amount in e-mail? That’s insulting. That’s like saying you don’t trust me.”
I reply “It’s not that I don’t trust you. It’s just that several people owe me money right now, and I’m not sure I can remember it all. It’s easier just to keep it in writing.”
He said “That’s business, not friendship. It's insulting. If you’re going to write it in e-mail, then I don’t even want the money from you at all now.”

So what do people think? Is my friend wrongfully getting upset over something reasonable that I said? Or am I wrong, and is it offensive to put this in writing when he‘s been my close friend for many years?
Please be honest - I will not be offended if you think I’m wrong.

Comments

  • doublediamond
    doublediamond
    What happened here IMO is that with the mention of writing it down, it brought all the negative associations of the borrower/lender relationship. It made it clear that he's going to be responsible for paying you back.

    This is a great example of why loaning money to friends and family can be tricky. When I "loan" to friends/family, I assume I'm not getting it back. Guess what? Anyone who has "borrowed" money from me has NOT paid me back. EVER.
  • MOD
    MOD
    Truth!

    He's not going to pay you back so he's feigning outrage to cover up the fact that he knows he's untrustworthy and you caught him trying to nip some money off you with no intention keeping to his word.

    Sounds like you did yourself a favor Garth.
  • brokechick
    brokechick
    if you needed it in writing for your own memory, maybe the best thing to do would have been to write it down in a place for yourself, or send yourself an e-mail, so as not to offend with the suggestion that it would have to be in writing in order for him to pay you back. i understand that's not what you meant, but i also understand why he got upset.
  • new2nyc
    new2nyc
    if i wasnt planning to pay someone back i'd feel offended.

    if i was..what's the big deal about an email-thanks for the reminder that i owe you money, it helps ensure i DO pay you back *which i want to do because youre my friend*
  • d_luxx
    d_luxx
    I think that the person making the loan gets to set the terms, not the borrower. Your friend can take it or leave it.
  • nearnostrand
    nearnostrand
    It sounds like he was being extra sensitive and a little immature. It also sounds like he hated the idea of actually being held accountable for paying you back. If you were willing to part with your $20 he shouldn't have made a big deal about the email - unless you are one of those stingy-stinkin'-penny-pinching-scrooge like miser characters who would hold this measly little loan over his head for ever and make snide remarks like, "Yeah, I would have had cheese on my burger except that I can't afford it because I'm about $20 short since some of us owe others of us money unpaid loans..." But as far as I can tell, that doesn't seem to be the case and based upon your description of the event, he shouldn't have taken your request so hard.

    It's best not to loan money to family or friends if you can help it. If you do make the loan, think of it as a gift because you probably will never get it back - at least not in the same way you gave it.

    Good Luck!
  • boygabriel
    boygabriel
    S/he's being unreasonable.

    An email confirmation is a perfectly reasonable request.
  • eacsn1
    eacsn1
    totally reasonable. if i was borrowing, i'd prefer it that way i'd know exactly how much i owed as well. sounds like they probably do this a lot and this is one of the few times someone is holding them accountable.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    I agree.

    The friend should be discouraged from ending up so broke that they have to borrow $.

    There should be a price to borrowing.
    ...having to do the email thing beats having to pay interest.
  • scarlett
    scarlett
    Really? I guess some of us are just more generous than you, whynot. If I have extra and someone is in need, I take care of them.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    scarlett wrote: Really? I guess some of us are just more generous than you, whynot. If I have extra and someone is in need, I take care of them.
    you wouldn't make them send you an email if you were unsure about their ability to, um, "remember"?

    If they were a genuine friend, I wouldn't make them email me. ...I'd just spot them the $20.
  • whatchuwant
    whatchuwant
    He/she's a friend you've had for years - I DO indeed think it's a little petty to write up a contract over $20. I mean, it's $20- not $200, not $2000. Give your friend a break, its bad enough that they're asking to borrow money.

    Look at your history with this person- are they generous when they can be? Have they treated you to dinner/drinks/brunch/helped you move your apartment in the past that you could kind of look at this as a gotcha back, sort of thing?

    Loan them the money- write it down in your financial whatever, and leave it to your close friend of many years to do the right thing and pay you back. If not, consider it lesson learned for next time.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    I'm thinking the person is someone s/he has known for several years, but isn't a "close friend" (even though that's what is written).

    Many of us have sponges we've all known for several years. ...I'm assuming this borrower is one of them because the OP wants the email confirmation.

    $20 isn't going to last very long. If its a real friend, whynot say something like "hey, let's get you out of this situation. Here's $200 to get you thru payday, don't worry about paying it back."

    $20 is kind of a pathetic amount to be borrowing from every friend one has.

    P.S. No one with an addiction gets a loan unless its in the form a cab ride to detox.
  • whatchuwant
    whatchuwant
    whynot_31 wrote: I'm thinking the person is someone s/he has known for several years, but isn't a "close friend" (even though that's what is written).
    He said he was a close friend- let's believe him, shall we, unless he says otherwise?
    whynot_31 wrote: Many of us have sponges we've all known for several years. ...I'm assuming this borrower is one of them because the OP wants the email confirmation.
    That certainly would strengthen his argument, but he didn't say that his friend was a mooch. So again, let's not assume and try to read through what the OP actually said.
    whynot_31 wrote: $20 isn't going to last very long. If its a real friend, whynot say something like "hey, let's get you out of this situation. Here's $200 to get you thru payday, don't worry about paying it back."

    $20 is kind of a pathetic amount to be borrowing from every friend one has.
    Where did he say he was borrowing from every friend? STOP ASSUMING. That's not why the OP's here- we're not here to talk smack about his friend.
    whynot_31 wrote: P.S. No one with an addiction gets a loan unless its in the form a cab ride to detox.
    What are you talking about?!?!?! What addiction??? Really, Why Not....
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Whatchuwant wrote: [quote=whynot_31]I'm thinking the person is someone s/he has known for several years, but isn't a "close friend" (even though that's what is written).
    He said he was a close friend- let's believe him, shall we, unless he says otherwise?.

    I suspect there is more to this story, otherwise the OP wouldn't be asking for an email confirmation over just $20.
    whynot_31 wrote: Many of us have sponges we've all known for several years. ...I'm assuming this borrower is one of them because the OP wants the email confirmation.
    Whatchuwant wrote: That certainly would strengthen his argument, but he didn't say that his friend was a mooch. So again, let's not assume and try to read through what the OP actually said. .
    ...I'm try to suspend my suspicions, but await the OP's response regarding the possible presence of a mooch factor.
    whynot_31 wrote: $20 isn't going to last very long. If its a real friend, whynot say something like "hey, let's get you out of this situation. Here's $200 to get you thru payday, don't worry about paying it back."

    $20 is kind of a pathetic amount to be borrowing from every friend one has.
    Whatchuwant wrote: Where did he say he was borrowing from every friend? STOP ASSUMING. That's not why the OP's here- we're not here to talk smack about his friend. .
    I don't claim to know his friend, but if he's a good friend who just needs $, I'd try to save him from the embarassment of getting money from lots of people. $20 is no going to do any good. $200 might.
    whynot_31 wrote: P.S. No one with an addiction gets a loan unless its in the form a cab ride to detox.
    Whatchuwant wrote: What are you talking about?!?!?! What addiction??? Really, Why Not....
    I wanna hear more about why this person needs $20. Its a ridiculously small amount. My suspicion is that he is needs more and is embarassed to ask for it (hence the $200 solution), or the friend needs $20 for a fix (or something) and figures that he'll never have to pay it back because the amount is so small.

    May theories are that we are looking at one of three things:
    1. Good friend that is embarassed/hurt by the email request.
    2. Long term mooch that the OP has finally confronted/cornered with the email request.
    3. Addict who is cornered by the email request and now wants to use guilt to still get the $.

    OP, you out there? ...tell us about this "close friend"
  • brokechick
    brokechick
    whynot_31 wrote: I wanna hear more about why this person needs $20. Its a ridiculously small amount. My suspicion is that he is needs more and is embarassed to ask for it (hence the $200 solution), or the friend needs $20 for a fix (or something) and figures that he'll never have to pay it back because the amount is so small.
    i guess this is a reasonable thing to wonder about, but ONLY because the friend said he or she wouldn't be able to pay back the $20 until the next paycheck came in in two weeks. if there is zero cash until the next check, $20 really isn't going to help much, unless the friend is going to stock up on bulk-bin rolled oats.
  • cool the kid
    cool the kid
    Ask dude to provide you with a credit report
  • scarlett
    scarlett
    I could make $20 last two weeks but I would be miserable. No more pb and j.
    Sometimes we just need cash though. Credit cards don't work for everything, and if I was cash poor, $20 would just ab last two weeks of cash needs.
  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior
    I would personally find it insulting it's a cultural thing. i have lend out alot and also borrow alot without ever putting anything down on paper. i know them well enough to know they'll give it back and vis versa.
  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior
    $20 is a cheap lesson to see who your friend is dependable or not. if they can't even return $20. no point in writing small amount down.
  • independent mind
    independent mind
    its gross to ask for money and then be offended at how the person handles it. period. I mean he could have rolled his eyes, or been like, 'whatever' when u asked for the email (which is, for the record, anal--but I'm assuming there's a history with this guy for you to have asked for this). Distrust anyone who is treating you this way--they shouldn't be borrowing period (weird) and should def NOT be throwing you attitude for it. Sounds manipulative.
  • whatchuwant
    whatchuwant
    Whatever the reasons this friend might have to ask, it's just petty to want to document $20. Who cares what he spends it on- hookers, drugs or food- what are you, his mom?

    If he's as good a friend as you call him, then be a friend back and just give it to him.

    Sheesh- all this over $20 is just stupid.
  • garth
    garth
    Thank you, everyone. I appreciate your responses.... It seems that most people think I'm in the right, but I respect the other opinions.

    I do not wish to share any more specific details about my friend’s current situation, nor my own. I just wanted responses to this as a “general situation.” So I thank you for giving me that.

    If my post only made you curious for more details, then I’m sorry.
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