The Police's Seeming Indifference, rudeness and misconduct
Subject: The Police's Seeming Indifference, rudeness and misconduct
I have an idea.Let's create a thread where the contributors relay their anecdotes that pertain to police indifference. At some point we can reach out to the 77th precinct and alert them to the thread. This way they can be aware of how pissed off people are about police indifference, disrespect and misconduct. I am inspired by personal experience as well as reading the thread about the smirking cop when he realizes that a BB gun was aimed at passers by.
I have two stories. The first involves the owner of Nairobi's Backpack on Franklin Avenue. The day of the shooting at the corner of Lincoln Place and Franklin Avenue, that evening specifically, as she was about to close the store the buzzer rang. The door is open only through engaging a buzzer, but because the store was closed, she thought it better manners to approach the door and inform the gentleman that she was closed. She opens the door, and he pushes himself in(!) and says to her that he needed to buy something for a birthday party for a nephew/niece. My source told me that she felt very uneasy about the whole exchange because of the manner in which the man stepped into the store, but she was alone in the space with her two kids.
He picked something and paid for it with a hundred dollar bill, which she knew as soon as it was in her hand that it was counterfeit. She said nothing, for agian, she was alone in the store. She completed the transaction and thanked him for his patronage, escorting him to the door and closing it behind him. A cop was walking by on his beat and as the man walked away she silenty waved to the cop to get his attention. She opened the door and said, "Could you come here please? Her voice and state of mind was a bit panicked as one could imagine." The police officer's response was something like, "What do you want? If you want to talk to me, then you best come to me." So she did. She pointed out the man walking away -- and told the officer that he had presented her with a counterfeit bill. The cop looks at her and says that he doesn't handle counterfeiting. That's someone else's department...
Comments
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http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57436
Check it out it is the Village Voice articles "the NYPD Tapes" where a cop in the 81st precinct carried a secret tape recorder for years an then exposed all the corruption! -
Second story:
This happened a few weeks ago. The brother who owns 'About Time', a tishirt boutique on Franklin Avenue was coming from a job. He's also an electrician and stepped into his store. A cop walking the beat comes into the store and asked him for identification. Kevin who owns the store looks bewildered and said something like, "Are you kidding me? You're going to ask me for identification in my own store?' He had on his electrician workbelt, and in his right pocket a box cutter. The cop steps forward and reaches into the brother's pocket and pulls out the box cutter. "This is why I am arresting you, he says." And that is exactly what he does.
True story folks. -
Both stories I'm sure taken out of context, but this thread is defenitely a step towards improving Police/Community relations. Now please proceed with your complaints....
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Why don't you go for a Ride along and see what these fine men and women face on a daily basis to keep you and yours safe. Maybe then, you might just STFU rather than criticizing people that put their lives on the line day in and day out for complete strangers who only serve to criticize anonymously from behind a computer screen.
The Civilian Observer Ride Along Program provides the public with an opportunity to observe police officers on patrol. Members of the public ride with officers in a patrol car for approximately two hours, witnessing first hand what a police officer on patrol encounters during a tour of duty. The program is open to anyone with valid photo identification over the age of eighteen. This past year 1,657 local community members, university students, law enforcement officials, and visitors from the United States and abroad experienced what it takes to patrol with New York’s Finest.
Contact: Your local precinct or 646-610-5323 -
Oy.... Maybe they are taken out of context, KWAC, but I am just telling it how they were relayed to me. My attempt here is not to JUDGE the stories, or wonder what was in the mind of the police officer(s) or the person providing reportage. That's up to the cops to do, I guess, if they ever get around to reading any of this. I HONESTLY wrote this without attempt to color the stories in any way. If you want to seek veracity, you can have conversations with the owners of Nairobi's Backpack and About Time. They are both on Franklin Ave, just a stone's throw away from each other.
If this space is used to say, 'well, you don't know how hard cops have it, or, 'people will say anything' then those interpretations (favorable or unfavorable of any perspective here) defeats the point of it... -
STFU? Seriously, KWAC?
MHA, maybe this would be a better reference for people:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/home.html -
Carnivore wrote: STFU? Seriously, KWAC?
That was the best response you could come up with?
MHA, maybe this would be a better reference for people:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/home.html -
When members of the NYPD's response to inappropriate behavior by officers is "STFU" it's important to remember that there's a way to create an official public record of this type of behavior. Better than just on a message board.
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But far less amusing, admittedly.
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i appreciate that nypd officers put their lives on the line.
but putting your life on the line does not make you exempt from criticism. that's not how it works. -
Neither story makes sense and cannot be corroburated. Why would the merchant knowingly accept a counterfeit bill? Why didnt she call 911? As for the guy with the boxcutter, theres obviously more to that story too since boxcutters are not illegal to possess unless you're a minor or its used in the comission of a Crime.
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One would think, right?
But the story above mentions she was the last employee (but with her children present, as one would expect after school at the end of the day) closing up a shop and leaving for the day when this guy pressed his way in.
You really have to put yourself in her exact position, in that exact setting and time there to grasp the fact that if the guy looks shady and presses his way in, and is confirmed a criminal by pressing counterfeit money for change, that little remains for him (having been witnessed) to escalate the situation in a very bad way if he knows he's been caught.
I would think that NYPD advises the community to do exactly as she did. Remain safe, not let on that he's been made (so he doesn't bolt) and alert the nearest police officer that's actually trained to deal with...*anything* that may result.
As for the box-cutters, is someone alleging here that the owner committed a crime, for which he was arrested? Because that is what was just implied above.
Stop and Frisk is one thing (hah, and what the heck is with recent rumors, btw. How would that even be possible...), but arresting implies something completely more substantial, and substantiated. -
I would normally agree, but passing counterfiet money is not a violent crime so its a little strange that she would just accept the bill and give him change. I have no clue why the guy with boxcutter was arrested, I suspect we're missing some important details here.
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KWAC - clearly you are a certain breed of human - one without the capacity for empathy (which, by definition means the capability to share another being's emotions and feelings). Can you not imagine being a woman with two small children who has already closed up shop for the night, having a man assert himself into your store? Having already shown that he has an aggressive side, of course she used her best judgement by not confronting him that his $100 was counterfeit. If you still think this is strange behavior on the part of the woman, try thinking about the scenario with that woman as your girlfriend, mother or sister (I'm simply guessing you are male). Still don't get it? Ask a female friend to explain it to you. Pretty simple stuff. I might even go one step further to say that your ignorance is offensive. Just sayin'.
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You know, I had to Google STFU because I had no idea what it meant. Now that I do, I have to say, that's 'eF'd Up, KWAC, seriously. I didn't start off saying anything critical of the cops; I just suggested a means of gathering what negative experiences people may have had with them. What's interesting here is that KWAC has a point, the police force does endure a whole bunch of stuff that is unimaginable.
One of my best friends was a police officer. He went through a great deal. He self medicated with peach Schnapps after awhile. I worked with cops in the summer of 2001. The ride alongs that KWAC describes are a great way of appreciating what these brave men and women endure to protect the streets of N.Y. I have several stories where valor was present, but this is not that type of thread. And admiration of them does NOT excuse what happened to the the owner of Nairobi's backpack -- if the relayed story is accurate, or what happened to the owner of About Time -- if the relayed story is accurate. If anything, those police officers sully the reputation of the great majority of the police force whom I have no doubt are honorable women and men.
But what I appreciate about KWAC's response is that it PARALLELS my own sympathetic plea for those amongst us who spit consciously at others, except that I didn't tell anyone to shut the frack up... I wonder what would happen if someone said to Benny B(?) that he 'ought to STFU, and if he only could spend a few hours in a White Observer Ridealong Program then maybe he would understand WHY the Black neighborhood spitters are the way they are....
Regarding the CCRB. I've actually had to fill out one of those myself. I observed a case of police brutality one day coming home from work and I followed the police making the arrest of a kid in Brownsville on an eastward train. It was a very difficult process. It took me approximately 5 hours to file the complaint because I had to go to the police precinct and wait for a CCRB officer to show up, and then I had to write out a report. From the point of arrest to the time I finished it was about 4.5 hours, and then I sat with the CCRB guy for about 30 minutes. Maybe the process has changed some. I hope it has. I do think that CCRB complaints should be filed, but I don't know how public they are. But the suggestion is a valid one, and no doubt more effective. Still, I think Crownie's recollection of her experience in the BB gun sniper scenario is one that we all need to hear. -
Outside Child wrote: http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57436
Did you actually hear the tapes because I did not hear "all of the corruption" in them. (The article did not even claim it showed corruption.) All they show is that the NYPD pressures officers to get a minimum amount of summons, arrests, etc... This practice is debatable (I personally disagree with it), but it is not corruption.
Check it out it is the Village Voice articles "the NYPD Tapes" where a cop in the 81st precinct carried a secret tape recorder for years an then exposed all the corruption! -
cccc wrote: [quote=Outside Child]http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57436
Did you actually hear the tapes because I did not hear "all of the corruption" in them. (The article did not even claim it showed corruption.) All they show is that the NYPD pressures officers to get a minimum amount of summons, arrests, etc... This practice is debatable (I personally disagree with it), but it is not corruption.
Check it out it is the Village Voice articles "the NYPD Tapes" where a cop in the 81st precinct carried a secret tape recorder for years an then exposed all the corruption!
Total disregard for the LAWS and rules that are in place is nothing other than CORRUPTION! -
I got a fourth story
My neighbor is in the lobby of our building. He's wearing shorts and sandals. It's cold outside. This happened about a month ago, I think. He's talking to the neighbor from across the street in our lobby.They are both sports fanatics and are talking about teams. A cop walks by and raps on the glass of the door and asks my neighbor if he lives here. My neighbor, wearing shorts and sandals on a cool/cold day says, "C'mon now, you see me in shorts and a t-shirt talking in my lobby -- I'm a grown man -- and you're gonna ask me if I live here? If you're gonna do your job why not do it well?" The cop backpedals and says he is doing his job, and that they get all kinds of complaints for stuff on this block. Yeah! NEXT DOOR WHERE THE WEED SPOT IS! BUT HE"S NOT BANGING ON THAT DOOR!
My neighbor felt that the cop wasn't as deferential as he should have been, as he would have been if he wasn't what he is. He was asked for identification, and he showed it. -
Outside Child wrote: [quote=cccc][quote=Outside Child]http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57436
Did you actually hear the tapes because I did not hear "all of the corruption" in them. (The article did not even claim it showed corruption.) All they show is that the NYPD pressures officers to get a minimum amount of summons, arrests, etc... This practice is debatable (I personally disagree with it), but it is not corruption.
Check it out it is the Village Voice articles "the NYPD Tapes" where a cop in the 81st precinct carried a secret tape recorder for years an then exposed all the corruption!
Total disregard for the LAWS and rules that are in place is nothing other than CORRUPTION!
I'm sorry, but I do not see it. Maybe you can point out a portion of the tape that shows that the officers had a "total disregard for the laws and rules that are in place." I'm not saying that there are no corrupt officers; I'm just saying this article relates more to NYPD policy rather than criminality. -
cccc wrote: [quote=Outside Child][quote=cccc][quote=Outside Child]http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57436
Did you actually hear the tapes because I did not hear "all of the corruption" in them. (The article did not even claim it showed corruption.) All they show is that the NYPD pressures officers to get a minimum amount of summons, arrests, etc... This practice is debatable (I personally disagree with it), but it is not corruption.
Check it out it is the Village Voice articles "the NYPD Tapes" where a cop in the 81st precinct carried a secret tape recorder for years an then exposed all the corruption!
Total disregard for the LAWS and rules that are in place is nothing other than CORRUPTION!
I'm sorry, but I do not see it. Maybe you can point out a portion of the tape that shows that the officers had a "total disregard for the laws and rules that are in place." I'm not saying that there are no corrupt officers; I'm just saying this article relates more to NYPD policy rather than criminality.
did you read the articles? -
Yes, I did. Another issue it discussed was the manipulation of the crime stats by the higher ups in the department. Again, I would not consider that corruption. There is no discussion of cops taking money or participating in any sort of criminal behavior.
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cccc wrote: Yes, I did. Another issue it discussed was the manipulation of the crime stats by the higher ups in the department. Again, I would not consider that corruption. There is no discussion of cops taking money or participating in any sort of criminal behavior.
To blatantly manipulate the LAWS and take in innocent people for no reason or not report crimes to help your stats is CORRUPTION!
Main Entry: cor·rup·tion
Pronunciation: kə-ˈrəp-shən
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 a : impairment of integrity, virtue, or moral principle : depravity b : decay, decomposition c : inducement to wrong by improper or unlawful means (as bribery) d : a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct
2 archaic : an agency or influence that corrupts
3 chiefly dialect : pus -
Wasn't the point of manipulating the stats for personal advancement and/or protection, job security?
For example, with a rise in crimes reported, Cosgrove is now out of the 77th.
(Note: rise in reported crimes still a possible outcome whether 100% reported or not)
Corruption does not have to be just about undisclosed payoffs. It can be about falsified promotions, contracts awarded without proper due process, any of a number of things.
It seems that this case is tied directly to money and advancement, promotions, etc. That part is undisputed. -
I agree with KWAC. These stories are one side of a situation. I think, in most cases, cops will not give you attitude unless you give it to them. For example, the guy in the lobby wearing shorts and sandals. If that was his response to the cop's simple question, he's inviting a similar response from the cop. He should have just said, "Yes, I do live here, officer." How hard is that? The cop is just doing his job, and personally, I'd rather have them ask those questions. Our neighborhood has changed for the better, partly because of increased police scrutiny and the attitude of residents who refuse to put up with the wild west scene of just a few years ago.
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Sure, the stories may be one-sided.
The lobby one has debatable holes in it as you mention. The police are asked to be more attentive and engaged in things, making sure folks aren't coming from the weed hot spot next door and doing undesired things in neighboring buildings or elsewhere nearby. So there are definitely unfortunate, quality-of-life tradeoffs for the average guy on the street so to speak (or in his lobby, in this case) as the police do the job of finding out who's involved and what's happening and where it happens as they are asked to do.
The account of the lobby situation here was indeed told from just one side, second-hand.
And the other accounts here were also admittedly told from just one side, too.
But you have to admit, there are cases that are utterly baffling in terms of the response given at the time and deserve to be brought to someone's attention, and some of the other situations described above fall into that category.
I think all or most here recognize that we need the police to be able to do their job. Perhaps the vast majority of things go smoothly, with most police officers doing great work in spite of a challenging environment (to say the least of the dangers and hurdles involved).
I believe that this thread is just to highlight certain situations where certain officers have responded in a manner that defies (and disappoints) normal, reasonable expectations, in case there is a policy issue that may be addressed. -
MHA wrote: I got a fourth story
Once again, heres a Police Officer doing his job, he simply asked the men if they lived there, since they are congregating in a drug prone location. Why not respond with a yes officer, I do, would you like to see my identification and then maybe go a little farther and say thank you to the Officer? Saying I'm a grown man, only escalates the a situation, not to mention that being grown, has no bearing on criminality. Please feel free to explain the last part of your statement where you said "My neighbor felt that the cop wasn't as deferential as he should have been, as he would have been if he wasn't what he is."
My neighbor is in the lobby of our building. He's wearing shorts and sandals. It's cold outside. This happened about a month ago, I think. He's talking to the neighbor from across the street in our lobby.They are both sports fanatics and are talking about teams. A cop walks by and raps on the glass of the door and asks my neighbor if he lives here. My neighbor, wearing shorts and sandals on a cool/cold day says, "C'mon now, you see me in shorts and a t-shirt talking in my lobby -- I'm a grown man -- and you're gonna ask me if I live here? If you're gonna do your job why not do it well?" The cop backpedals and says he is doing his job, and that they get all kinds of complaints for stuff on this block. Yeah! NEXT DOOR WHERE THE WEED SPOT IS! BUT HE"S NOT BANGING ON THAT DOOR!
My neighbor felt that the cop wasn't as deferential as he should have been, as he would have been if he wasn't what he is. He was asked for identification, and he showed it. -
Just as a counterpoint, a neighbor was coming down the street just before 9am this morning and noticed another neighbor double-parked, loading things in or out of their silver Saab hatchback.
While they were right there loading things in or out of the back, a man suddenly bolted into the driver's seat and sped away with the vehicle, hatchback wide open, owner right there at the car.
The police arrived instantly and after getting initial basic information immediately took the owner in their car to drive the neighborhood.
Police handle all kinds of things on a daily basis, and handle them well.
This thread is more about cases like the Nairobi's Backpack situation and the About Time situation.
Back to the example of the Nairboi's Backpack employee reporting the situation to the police officer, then being told that he doesn't handle counterfeiting.
But isn't this *precisely* the sort of person he should pursue to Stop and Frisk, as per the program?
- He has probable cause.
- A felony appears to have been committed by passing counterfeit currency.
- This person may have more counterfeit money on him, additional evidence.
- Getting the suspect's name and address for further questioning (and database in general) would certainly be helpful for the counterfeit crimes unit, may lend a tip or break in mapping the production or distribution chain
All of this goes back to a policy level, which police superiors should be aware of as having slipped through the cracks in this case (and perhaps other similar ones here).
All the more reason for police to be aware of areas they need to fix, training- and ongoing guidance-wise. -
I don't disagree that the person should have been stopped and possibly arrested, I just question the vailidity of these one sided stories in which the person reporting them is not an involved party.
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Yes, agreed, that's a definite caveat of this sort of discussion.
Folks should keep that in mind here. -
Its interesting because my own personal experiences with the police have been hit or miss. My problems have been mostly with the uniform cops. When our home was robbed the police that came were very indifferent to us at first even getting into a slight argument with my husband who, understandably was very upset about being robbed. One officer made a comment that I found was very offensive and in my opinion, racist. When called on it, their attitude changed slightly and we finished our report. After that we dealt with the detectives assigned to the case who could not have been more understanding, receptive and pro-active in our case.
The second interaction I have had with a uniform police officer had to do more with just common human courtesy. One evening my lights were flickering and we called Con Ed who said they would be there the following morning. Early the next morning I heard a large boom which I figured was just a truck hitting a pothole. I saw some Con Ed trucks a little bit later and went out to see if they were here for me. It turns out there was a Con Ed explosion on the corner and there was a police car with 2 woman officers there to close off traffic. I tried to get the Con Ed worker's attention but he couldn't hear me. I stayed behind the yellow tape that was put up on the corner and called out to the officer: "Excuse me officer can you get his [the ConEd worker's] attention for me? She looked at him looked at me rolled her eyes and me and kept walking. As she is walking away her glove from her back pocket falls and I yell "Excuse me, excuse me" and the look on her face as she turned around to me was nothing less than disgusted and before she could say something I tell her "you dropped your glove". Instead of saying thank you she rolls her eyes again as her partner giggles in her squad car.
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