Where do the young (black) professionals hang?
Comments
-
Ishtar wrote: [quote=MHA]
Actually, there is nothing "to get". It's silly to segregate yourself based on some perceived social/class status. I can understand affinity orgs, I happen to hold membership in a few, and professional orgs that are geared specifically toward us for professional purposes (let's be real. most of our opportunities come out of relationships with other blacks), but the attitude that I see among too many of us is this "they're beneath me and I don't want to be in the same room as them" type deal.
The way Holla Peno above just doesn't get it. And not only does he not get it, he judges what he just doesn't get. Which is cool. That is his right.
Also, in regards to CH, while there has always been a large black population, it is largely of West Indian heritage. The exception in this area being those streets that are closest to Bed Stuy. Bed-Stuy has a history of businesses catering to black Americans. It's extremely hard to build a business around a demographic that doesn't really exist in an area.
Meh I actually kind of agree with MHA here. The OP's request is in a way no different from someone of say Polish descent looking for a Polish hangout. Nowhere in the OP did the OP say his/her friend was looking to shut anyone out; just have a hangout where there are people more like them. The ubiquity off the white professional in BK may make this an alien concept to you but it's definitely a reasonable request. -
Well, that's just sad.
Tell her to join the Urban League, or do what all the other YBP women do: Join Abyssinian Baptist Church.
Impart to her please that she has better odds finding an honorable man of any color before she finds a brother who is in the 'talented tenth'.
What talents are we talking about here, by the way? -
Again: Crow Hill is by and large, very very YBP, right?
Yet the original post wasn't all "Is there a place for us", it was "this isn't a strip of things all oriented towards us."
IE "isn't Fort Greene."
To which everyone got all up in arms: There's already FG if you're obsessed w/being a YBP. For the rest of us there's CH. YBP's coming around and complaining about CH not being FG just makes me ask, ok, get your friends to open a bar/restaurant. Me, I'm happy with the nabe.
AGAIN. The thread was started over the question of 'is there a place for YBP's in CH'?
There is. Is CH FG? No. Does FP suck b/c certain YBP's don't like it?
No. -
Holla peno wrote: Again: Crow Hill is by and large, very very YBP, right?
Nobody is saying to change the nabe, or that CH sucks... where is all this coming from?
Yet the original post wasn't all "Is there a place for us", it was "this isn't a strip of things all oriented towards us."
IE "isn't Fort Greene."
To which everyone got all up in arms: There's already FG if you're obsessed w/being a YBP. For the rest of us there's CH. YBP's coming around and complaining about CH not being FG just makes me ask, ok, get your friends to open a bar/restaurant. Me, I'm happy with the nabe.
AGAIN. The thread was started over the question of 'is there a place for YBP's in CH'?
There is. Is CH FG? No. Does FP suck b/c certain YBP's don't like it?
No.
And I agree that looking for that talented tenth IN A BAR of all places is a silly strategy... finding said dude often requires getting in the door with the dude very early in the game, as he's probably already found a wife (i.e. Obama in college) or has no reason to settle down due to his desirability... again though, another thread well outside the scope of this one. -
I am a YBP whatever that means,I truly believed that if a white person or to be politically correct caucasian person wrote this,people will be screaming bloody murder,racist and so on,and so on. By limiting your circle your limiting yourself.In all honesty this question is very off putting,and thats the nicest way I can say what I feel about this dumb question.
-
Cool The Kid wrote: [quote=Holla peno]Again: Crow Hill is by and large, very very YBP, right?
Nobody is saying to change the nabe, or that CH sucks... where is all this coming from?
Yet the original post wasn't all "Is there a place for us", it was "this isn't a strip of things all oriented towards us."
IE "isn't Fort Greene."
To which everyone got all up in arms: There's already FG if you're obsessed w/being a YBP. For the rest of us there's CH. YBP's coming around and complaining about CH not being FG just makes me ask, ok, get your friends to open a bar/restaurant. Me, I'm happy with the nabe.
AGAIN. The thread was started over the question of 'is there a place for YBP's in CH'?
There is. Is CH FG? No. Does FP suck b/c certain YBP's don't like it?
No.
PFFT. To quote from the very first post, from Won't U be my etc.:
"I pointed out Franklin Park, Brooklyn Exposure and Crow Hill Bistro, which she thought were cool, but she said that only three places, each on completely different streets, didn't constitute a "scene". "
So her friend doesn't want to move to CH because the "scene" isn't what it is in FG, and WUBMN wants us to come and pipe up for CH being what a "YBP" wants, scene-wise, to which I (and others) say, "We like our scene plenty, your friend probably wouldn't, and so be it. She'll probably be happier in FG. If she can't afford FG, well, I can't afford the East Village, though I might rather live there. tough titty. -
Holla peno wrote: well, I can't afford the East Village, though I might rather live there. tough titty.
and this explains everything about you in a nutshell ;-) -
My friend's actually fairly open minded though she is hoping that a "provider" will be in her future. I'm of a very different mentality, but I can understand where women come from. Regarding the "talented tenth" - I was being a bit facetious; the only reason I used the phrase is because Dubois was brought up. Then we were talking about notions of class and in some sense Dubois' theories regarding the talent tenth were very classist, but were well-regarded nonetheless. I'm not making an opinion on it, but like I said, I do think it would be an interesting conversation.
As to Holla Peno. Where as just about everyone else was able to provide some sort of productive response to the original post, you read into my post and took it places that just were not warranted based on my original post. For instance, your question, "what do you want us to do, leave?" No, per the original post, I was inquiring about alternatives to the places mentioned.
You later suggest that I said there is something "awfully wrong" about Franklin Park and that it "sucks". What part of the sentence where I say "she thought those places were cool" did you get that from?
You then end your post by saying "the tone I glean here is, 'no non-blacks, and no poors'." You forgot the "no olds". No, seriously. Based on what do you pick up that tone? The question is not about instituting reverse Jim Crow. If someone where to ask, "where do the hipsters in the neighborhood hang out?" Most people would respond "Franklin Park". And you and everyone else would think its a perfectly fair response to a perfectly fair question - because even though FP is not exclusively hipster and it's not exclusively where they hang out, it is a gravitational point for hipsters in the neighborhood.
But taking it a bit deeper, since your posts have now compelled me to go there, "hipster" is of course a code word for young, white middle class progressives. And people can and do use the term with impunity all the time. I on the other hand ask a similar question and you suggest racism and classism. If living in a world where we substitute code words for what we really want to say makes you comfortable - soft titty.
In the end I gather that there was just stuff that you had to get off your chest. And if reading more into my post than was actually there helped you do that, great. I'm sorry that you can't afford the East Village. I do hope that someday you will be able fulfill your dream of moving there ... hopefully very soon. -
What about Tavern on Dean?
-
Chekhovian wrote: What about Tavern on Dean?
When I've been there, the crowd seems black and professional, but not young.
...and the burgers are only ok.
...they should really build out the back yard -
Holla peno wrote: [quote=Cool The Kid][quote=Holla peno]Again: Crow Hill is by and large, very very YBP, right?
Nobody is saying to change the nabe, or that CH sucks... where is all this coming from?
Yet the original post wasn't all "Is there a place for us", it was "this isn't a strip of things all oriented towards us."
IE "isn't Fort Greene."
To which everyone got all up in arms: There's already FG if you're obsessed w/being a YBP. For the rest of us there's CH. YBP's coming around and complaining about CH not being FG just makes me ask, ok, get your friends to open a bar/restaurant. Me, I'm happy with the nabe.
AGAIN. The thread was started over the question of 'is there a place for YBP's in CH'?
There is. Is CH FG? No. Does FP suck b/c certain YBP's don't like it?
No.
PFFT. To quote from the very first post, from Won't U be my etc.:
"I pointed out Franklin Park, Brooklyn Exposure and Crow Hill Bistro, which she thought were cool, but she said that only three places, each on completely different streets, didn't constitute a "scene". "
So her friend doesn't want to move to CH because the "scene" isn't what it is in FG, and WUBMN wants us to come and pipe up for CH being what a "YBP" wants, scene-wise, to which I (and others) say, "We like our scene plenty, your friend probably wouldn't, and so be it. She'll probably be happier in FG. If she can't afford FG, well, I can't afford the East Village, though I might rather live there. tough titty.????
You're basically making shit up at this point... nowhere in that post did the OP even imply that her or her friend wanted to tear down + rebuild CH's social scene to their liking or that it sucked. And what does you not being able to afford the East Village have to do with anything? -
Won't UB My Nabor wrote: And I'm not trying to create any white v. black or Caribbean v. Black American drama, but I really am curious. I think that a business opportunity is being missed in Crown Heights. And from an economic development perspective, the community may be losing a lot of money to other neighborhoods because it is not meeting a demand of the community.
Demand of what community, tho? There are plenty of thriving businesses in CH because they cater to the needs of a huge segment of the population. CH also sits nicely between Bed-Stuy and Flatbush, with the latter having much better food related options than CH and Bed-Stuy, IMO. It almost makes no sense to open certain types of businesses in some parts of CH considering it's proximity to Bed-Stuy and Flatbush. -
Tavern on the Dean, where is that?. I need to hang out with some NOT young Black professionals!
Hey Brooklyn Native, could you clarify? What do you think would be called racist were a white person to say it? Are you saying that the YBP young lady who is interested in finding a Black husband ought not to limit her choices to Black men? I agree with you that having a criteria narrows your choices, but, isn't discernment a part of living? I will not date white women. My reason has nothing to do with hating white women, but moreseo with the need for cultural affinity and basic physical attraction. I can't fault white women for not wanting to couple with Black men for the same reason. And, to a CERTAIN degree (I have to back peddle just a bit) I can't fault this YBP that WUBMN describes for wanting a 'Duboisian - Talented Tenth' brother, if that is the socioeconomic caste from which her own experiences come. I mean, if she grew up going to Martha's Vineyard for the summer then how can I fault her for wanting someone with the same experiences?
Yes, it narrows her choices, but if that what she wants, then that is what she wants. However, if her reason for wanting someone who is obviously 'of means' has more to do with an opportunistice sensibility, then I have to cast aspersions -- I'm sorry I just do -- because to pick someone just because their wallet is fatter is shallow, callow -- and psychologically -- it means on some level that one is just as disembodied from their physical self as a sex worker.
What unnerves me about WUBMN's YBP friend is that she seems to put some esteem on Black professionals as if there is some value in being one. She needs to read Matthew P. Crawford's 'Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry Into The Value of Work." I find women who claim that they are looking for professional men as mates bizaare. Think about it, it is just as bizaare as saying, 'I am looking for a girlfriend, but she has to be a bluecollar worker.' Weird, no? -
MHA wrote: Tavern on the Dean, where is that?. I need to hang out with some NOT young Black professionals!
It's Dean and Underhill
http://www.tavernondean.net/
Last time I went, though, a girl threw up at the bar. NICE! -
Was she a YBP throwing up, or a Older (O?) BP throwing up. The need for distinction is critical here....
-
In my experience most YBP's come from a variety of neighborhoods, so they tend to congregate in Manhattan, close to where they work rather than in BK on a regular basis. BK spots are usually limited to those YBPs that live in and around that neighborhood, or who live close by on public transportation.
So Bed-Stuy and Ft. Green tend to have more people hanging in their spots because people can get off the A,C, or G train a stop or two early, have a drink and then head home. There isn't any easy way to get to CH from other neighborhoods except PH by public transportation, unless you are going up Franklin Avenue. So, Franklin has a chance of becoming a strip where Nostrand does not. Think about it. How many people, come home, change clothes and hop in their car or get on the bus to go to get a drink?
Also, there is some learned behavior that needs to be overcome. The YBP that are long time residents of these neighborhoods never hung out here. There may have been one or two places to hang but for the most part they ventured into other areas and neighborhoods to party, drink and socialize. That behavior is engrained and its going to take some time to get people comfortable with the concept of hanging out on Nostrand or Franklin Avenues. -
So Homeowner, you express no issue with the choice that YBP makes? You take no issue with her priority that her prospective mate be 'professional'? It's cool for a woman to say, 'I want to fall in love with a rich man'?
-
MHA wrote: It's cool for a woman to say, 'I want to fall in love with a rich man'?
I'm not homeowner, but what's wrong with that? It's no different from a man seeking out a woman based on physical or social preferences. Plus since the dawn of man women have preferred men who can provide them stability- it's in the interest of the woman and her offspring for her mate to provide stability. The real question is whether or not WUBMN's friend fit's the bill... if she wants a 10th percentile dude, is she a 10th percentile chick?
I too think that painting a picture in one's mind of who they will end up with is unreasonable and the main ingredient in inevitable disappointment. Plus stating wealth as a prerequisite to me says the woman doesn't really know what she wants. In these days women should be happy with a dude who is able to provide for himself and still have some money on the side. Characteristics such as intelligence, self-respect and compatibility go way further than wealth in terms of how well a relationship will go, and unfortunately take the investment of time and effort to assess. Foregoing those characteristics to lock down the next Boris Kudjoe is a big problem for a lot of single women...
But I'm probably jumping the gun here, I don't know WUBMN's friend from a can of paint. I still think a venue catering more to YBPs would be a good thing for CH. Soda has its moments, and there are actually a lot of YBPs who work out at the Bed Stuy YMCA. -
I don't know what she wants. We're all just speculating here. She wants a mate (which I think is fabulous), but I'm not going to begin to question whether she is looking for someone who is at her level (financially, educationally, and socially) or whether she is looking for someone to bring her up to a level where she aspires to be. From what was written here, there just isn't enough information to guess her motives.
For me personally, I think that the concept of "professionals" being "rich" is one which is fostered by the media. Every lawyer and doctor that I know is in the position of being saddled with tremendous debt. So while they might be bringing home mid to high six figures (and many of them are not), they are also paying thousands in student loan payments each month. For at least the first ten to twenty years of their professional lives, many of those people will barely be middle class. I know plenty of lawyers that are working in government or for not-for profits, and doctors that spend their time in clincs working punishing hours to then have their own private practice to make ends meet. None of them are "rich" (at least not in the "Housewives of ..." definition).
Besides which, in my experience true love causes all those "my ideal mate has to ..." determinations to go flying out of the window. Trust me, strippers and sandhogs find love too, and sometimes with "professional" women. -
I agree!
So why should we help her find her mate? If we do so, aren't we culpable in perpetuating her pathos? -
Ha! Well then this thread, at least in the sense of the original post, amounts to a whole lot of nothing!
-
so wait... we should only provide assistance to people if we agree with their criteria?
we should be like their older brother? ...somehow we know what potential match suits them best?
...this is complicated. -
No, I think that the correct answer is:
"I don't know about professionals but there are plenty of guys that hang out at X and they all appear to be cool, down to earth guys. You and your girlfriends should check it out."
Forget all about the criteria, and just try to get this chick hooked up with a guy. Then let nature take its course... -
Not me. I know a coterie of brothers who are, like her, young, Black and professional, and they will have nothing to do with someone who has as their criteria YBP and male.
My male friends, like myself, don't CONSCIOUSLY only hang out with who, like themselves are young Black and professional. We hang out with PEOPLE. They don't, to paraphrase someone else's point, limit their experiences. If I copy and pasted Won't U B My Nabor's infos query, there would be a unanimous 'heck no'.
This is the sort of woman that we avoid. You can't be a Black man and not recognize that one day you're the shiznit in any professional context and the next day you are on the curb. We look for women who want us 'for richer, for poorer, in sickness, and in health.' This YBP is apparently looking 'for richer...,' and nothing else. -
The puker was a well-dressed woman in her early 30s. But she had (I assume) gone home between work and going out since it seemed more like a "going out" type of outfit.
Also, on that topic, I almost always go home after work to change my clothes. I smell like crayons and have marker on my clothes by the time I get home. And I am a sweaty mess with no make-up on either. Before hitting a bar or restaurant I usually go home to change. -
Well I certainly hope you are in the top ten percentile because if you're not, then what's the point of talking to you then?
I kid, of course. -
Ishtar wrote: [quote=Won't UB My Nabor]And I'm not trying to create any white v. black or Caribbean v. Black American drama, but I really am curious. I think that a business opportunity is being missed in Crown Heights. And from an economic development perspective, the community may be losing a lot of money to other neighborhoods because it is not meeting a demand of the community.
Demand of what community, tho? There are plenty of thriving businesses in CH because they cater to the needs of a huge segment of the population. CH also sits nicely between Bed-Stuy and Flatbush, with the latter having much better food related options than CH and Bed-Stuy, IMO. It almost makes no sense to open certain types of businesses in some parts of CH considering it's proximity to Bed-Stuy and Flatbush.
I'm 100% with you. I'm most def not one of those people who says down with the hair salons, Caribbean restaurants, etc (though I do think that many would be better served if they changed up their business model ... but that's a whole different topic). But just because businesses are in a neighborhood and are thriving does not mean that they are sufficient in addressing the needs of the community. There could be other businesses that would thrive as well.
I love local economic development, so apologies in advance for the ensuing nerdiness. When communities are looking to do retail development, one of the ways they go about identifying target businesses is to compare the community in question to similar types of communities and see how the retail mix stacks up. Hence my question about we don't have certain types of establishments that similar neighborhoods do.
Another thing that is done is to look at how much money is being spent outside of the community. Normally you'd hire some fancy company to do a study or conduct a survey to figure that out. But from the responses to my question it seems clear that there is a "demand" for a certain type of social scene that isn't being adequately supplied here, so people (and their money) leave the community to get their fix.
I also agree with homeowner's point that people just aren't used to thinking of Crown Heights as a go to neighborhood for these types of venues and services (though I don't agree that transportation is part of the prob). And agree with your point that in some sense being sandwiched in between Bed Stuy and Flatbush puts us at a disadvantage.
There's other points I could make, but I won't continue to bore anyone who's been so kind to read this far (you'll be happy to know I deleted the two additional paragraphs I'd typed up
)
----
Phew ... I've been following this board for about 3 - 4 years and don't think I've ever written this much this often on any given topic. Damn, this is exhausting!! After this dies down, I'm gonna stick to reading religiously, occasionally chiming in, and keeping my questions to myself!
-
MHA wrote: Not me. I know a coterie of brothers who are, like her, young, Black and professional, and they will have nothing to do with someone who has as their criteria YBP and male.
Dang ... here I was trying to help my friend out, and I already got her blacklisted!
....
This is the sort of woman that we avoid. You can't be a Black man and not recognize that one day you're the shiznit in any professional context and the next day you are on the curb. We look for women who want us 'for richer, for poorer, in sickness, and in health.' This YBP is apparently looking 'for richer...,' and nothing else.
On another note, thought folks might find this interesting...
<code>
</code> -
This was incredibly interesting. Steve Harvey has it right. Unrealistic expectations mar the experiences most sisters have. At the same time, the odds have corrupted the ideals of Black men who see their demand as a window of opportunity. In addition, the incredible amount of incarcerated men, underemployable men, and undereducated men makes the picking harrowingly slim.
Not mentioned in the eligible men group is the number of brothers who are gay.
Won'tUBMyNabor this is why I take issue with your claim that there is a sizable YBP population in Crown Heights. I certainly don't see it.
The 6ft 5 inch requirement is crazy. Is that sister 6 feet 5? Or thereabouts? That's the only way that could make sense.
And lastly, to throw in a bit of paranoia into the mix, I believe that this result is by DESIGN. I've been on the straight and narrow for quite some time. I've avoided the lure of drugs and vice, and the trap of disease. I've been working ever since I was 16 doing varying things. Here is a sad truth: In every instance where I was doing the same job that a Black woman did, I never made as much as she did. This is a truth reflected in corporate settings as well as non-corporate settings. I have never made as much money as a Black woman -- ever. I have never been afforded the professional opportunities that my Black women peers have -- even though in all instances my educational level was higher than theirs. In my opinion, Black men are criminalized, and their professional growth stunted by racial bias and probably statistical criteria which awards corporate entites racial diversity points for the number of women and people of color they employ; why not get a twofer?
And, on top of this, Black women are acculturated to want something that they can show off to their friends: 'He's a doctor, a lawyer, or an Indian Chief -- and he drives a Lexus.'
Most men don't think this way. We meet women who appeal to us organically. We don't take into consideration what women do -- unless she's swinging from a pole.
I could write about this forever. Your YBP friend is in a box WUBMN. She needs to get out of it. Tell her to go to 95 South and face her preconceived notions. Who knows, maybe I'll be there... -
I think those women are crazy and anyone listening to Steve Harvey is equally crazy.
Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 40K All Categories
- 27.1K Neighborhoods
- 5.1K Crown Heights/Prospect Lefferts Gardens
- 7.1K Prospect Heights
- 2.3K Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy
- 8K Park Slope
- 549 Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Bushwick
- 442 Flatbush/Midwood/Ditmas Park
- 657 BoCoCa (Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens)
- 151 Red Hook
- 104 Gowanus
- 304 Bay Ridge/Bensonhurst
- 130 Coney Island, Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay
- 270 Brooklyn Heights, DUMBO and Downtown
- 598 Windsor Terrace / Kensington
- 673 Greenwood Heights and Sunset Park
- 749 Brooklyn and Beyond
- 6.3K Stuff
- 86 Brooklyn Back When
- 1.2K Brooklyn Pets
- 257 Brooklyn Kids
- 241 Brooklyn Eats
- 51 Brooklyn Booze
- 3.6K The Lounge / Random Stuff
- 611 Brooklyn Politics
- 122 Brooklyn Sports and Fitness
- 111 Brooklyn Photos
- 339 Site Issues
- 8 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- 6.2K Listings
- 1.1K APARTMENTS and REAL ESTATE
- 1.3K Sales Openings Events
- 2.3K The Classifieds