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FINED for using my building's roof access — Brooklynian

FINED for using my building's roof access

Subject: FINED for using my building's roof access

A great summer feel for this Memorial Day Weekend, this Sunday was perfect for get-together with friends and having a little BBQ. We were having a great time, until the NYPD came up to the roof and gave us all a summons. Here's how it went:

171 Rogers Ave between St John & Lincoln
3:00 PM - 8:33 PM - We are sitting on the roof, drinking some beer, all seated around a table and playing a card game of Bullshit. Music is on, but low. It's the Beach Boys. Bass-thumping rap music below is coming from a BBQ on street level next door. The roof is surrounded by gates and the floor is finished, and management encourages us to use the space. It's a selling point for them-- roof access, yippay! If you look in their craigslist ads, there's no hiding the fact that they want you to get excited about having a private roof. ( One ad can be found here for now http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/abo/1767730362.html )

- 8:34 PM - The NYPD walks through the door of the rooftop connected to our building (Building 169 Rogers) and walks over to our side and asks who lives here. I get up, give them my id, and then they tell me it is illegal for us to be up here on the roof. I explain there must be a misunderstanding because this is private property, and I'm the leaseholder, and management has allowed us to use this space. The officer's argument was that it was a "Common Space" and that's why it's an issue. I said but it isn't PUBLIC. He said he had two options: Cuff us all and take us to the station, or two, give us all a summons which will result in $25 tickets per person. A summons for what? I thought we were getting it for being on the roof...

He wrote us up for Open Container. We weren't being rowdy or causing any harm, we were just sitting around, calmly, having a couple beers.

Then my friend mentioned to me that it was the end of the month, so maybe it had to do with quotas. A possibility, I thought. So I asked them. They said they received a call (but wouldn't tell me from who) that people were on the roof, and its their job to investigate. Now, if they find something, they need to enforce the law. And again, he stated in NEW YORK CITY, IT IS ILLEGAL TO BE ON THE ROOF OF ANY BUILDING UNLESS IT IS YOUR OWN PROPERTY. I contested, saying everybody does it (knowing that isn't an excuse), but why wouldn't we hear more of this? Especially since everybody is doing it, let's seem some crack-downs and more summons written. Then we'll get the idea that we aren't supposed to do it. I've never, ever heard of this.

In the meantime, I texted my building manager and he said we have every right to be on the roof. The police officers said the only way to contest this is to get a letter in writing from our management stating such and go to court to explain it.

Has anybody heard of this before?

I believe somebody could have called the cops because this neighborhood is full of dickheads. My superintendant came up to the roof and spoke to me after the police arrived and said "Somebody somewhere just doesn't want you to have a good time." But, on the other hand, these officers could have been monitoring the streets below at this crazy party where music is loud enough to shake buildings, and kids are running around on the sidewalk and street with bikes and little push scooters... So did they only come up here to get a couple quick summons on a party of 7 white, not-so-intimidating young adults? Really?

Here's the kicker: At the end of this all, the officer (Thomas) said, "Look, I'm going to tell you all now that we patrol these streets and these buildings and you're not going to see another group of officers come up here. It will only be us. So, enjoy your night and don't let this ruin it, continue on in the way you are. If we come up here again in the future, now we know you, and we'll dismiss it. But I'll tell ya right now that if my boss came up here with us, you'd all be leaving in hand cuffs." They proceeded to call me a patriot because of my party and my American flag shorts and huge American flag behind us all, giving attention to and petting my Great Dane and said she was a beautiful dog, made small talk about her, and bullshitted with us and laughed for a couple minutes before leaving.

I've lived in Brooklyn for only 4 years, but 2.5 years in this current apartment. What say you?

Here's the NYC Penal Code sec 10-125:
§ 10-125 Consumption of alcohol on streets prohibited. a. Definitions.
Whenever used in this section, the following terms are defined as
follows:
1. Alcoholic beverage. Any liquid intended for human consumption
containing more than one-half of one percent (.005) of alcohol by
volume.
2. Public place. A place to which the public or a substantial group of
persons has access including, but not limited to, any highway, street,
road, sidewalk, parking area, shopping area, place of amusement,
playground, park or beach located within the city except that the
definition of a public place shall not include those premises duly
licensed for the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages on the
premises or within their own private property. Such public place shall
also include the interior of any stationary motor vehicle which is on
any highway, street, road, parking area, shopping area, playground, park
or beach located within the city.
b. No person shall drink or consume an alcoholic beverage, or possess,
with intent to drink or consume, an open container containing an
alcoholic beverage in any public place except at a block party, feast or
similar function for which a permit has been obtained.
c. Possession of an open container containing an alcoholic beverage by
any person shall create a rebuttable presumption that such person did
intend to consume the contents thereof in violation of this section.
d. Nothing in this section shall be deemed to prohibit the consumption
of an alcoholic beverage in any duly licensed establishment whose
certificate of occupancy extends upon a street.
e. Any person who shall be found to have violated any of the
provisions of this section shall be punished by a fine of not more than
twenty-five dollars ($25) or imprisonment of up to five (5) days, or
both, or pursuant to the provisions of the family court act of the state
of New York where applicable.
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Comments

  • Personally, I would fight it tooth and nail in court. There is no way this is "public" space. If everyone has access to your roof (like the police argue to true to stoops...) then I would be nervous about your building's security. If the LL and owner will write down that he allows it I see no way that this is not allowed.

    In my (quick) googling, it looks like they could give you this $25 fine if they thought you weren't allowed to be there (ie: drinking on someone else's property without permission). BUT if you clearly do have proof that you're allowed to use this common space, then the fine is bullshit and again, I would fight it.

    And then when you win, keep a copy of the ruling in your pocket at all times for when they come back next time.
  • I feel your pain.

    What you experienced aint nothing new 'round here. That type of ish happens everyday. It's just that now it's become color blind. Everyone is game.

    Welcome to the Old NWO.
    The purpose of the action. I'll call it the ghetto census. Bag em and tag em. Your just another body now. Building the database of all in the hood. Whilst collecting, they also put the fear of we are in power over you, rights, what rights.
    What will happen is you'll go answer it and they will either dismiss it outright or offer you an ACD. If you try to fight it, and plead not guilty, you'll get tied up in court for the next 2 years back and forth till it gets thrown out. It's a sham. They want you to not question the disregard for your rights, pay the fine, go home and stfu.


    There's a cat with the Village Voice that did some excellent articles on the 84(i think) based on the cop who recorded things for a couple of years. Contact him and tell him your story, if your so inclined. That will prolly be the only satisfaction you'll get.
  • do you think because you are white excuses you from being harassed by New Yorks finest.... That was a really ignorant statement. I am glad you got a summons :)
  • I agree with mantic, to a point. It's not exactly the same old ish. In this case the police were confronted during this situation -

    a. told that they were wrong about it being a "public space"

    b. questioned about what propelled them to come up to the roof

    and no one ended up in handcuffs. After the harassment, the officer even shot the breeze and shared a few chuckles. Most tellingly, there was no mention of a police office placing his hand on his holster during the incident.

    It absolutely sucks for you and your friends that you had to be treated unfairly boprey, but at least you were treated relatively well. And yeah, I'm sure it was probably much easier to confront you than to try to enforce the noise ordinance being broken by the folks down below on the street.
  • Lexie Z wrote: do you think because you are white excuses you from being harassed by New Yorks finest.... That was a really ignorant statement. I am glad you got a summons :)
    No, I don't think because I am white I am excused by default. I just called it as I saw it. In this situation, I was an easier target. Last I checked, Crown Heights was not the neighborhood of Cliff Huxtable. Catch my drift?
  • oh, jesus. here we go.

    <---pulling up a chair and getting some popcorn :-)
  • I think giving everybody a ticket is lame. I think that if your bldg doesn't have a roof alarm on the door to ensure nobody goes up there is strange if the roof was not intended for use. If the alarm was bypassed you,your bldg super and the owners of the bldg should get a ticket. The little girl who fell off the roof a couple of months ago is reason enough. How did you drag a water hose all the way up to the roof for the BBQ? or did you have a 30+ pound fire extinguisher to put out the spilled/possibly spilled grilled and it's hot coals? Cops and fireman are not thinking that you are bad or do not deserve a good time the policy is in place because of people who don't think past the duration of the party. Corner of Franklin and EPkway somebody put hot coals in the public garbage so the police treating everybody as if they have no common sense is not so extreme.
  • totally ridic. seems like flatfoots looking for safe revenue streams. but maybe reactionary to this the night before?:

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jJsZFPBqPvwpWLKwBJEFE4lrJE1AD9G1CQT00
  • Having spent a good part of late 2008 and early 2009 fighting an open container ticket for having an open beer on the stoop of a building of which I am a coop owner, you have two options:

    - Pay the $25 and be done with it
    - Be prepared for many hours sitting in courtrooms

    During my saga I spoke to many people who encountered citations for private roof parties, drinking indoors in hallways, having a glass of wine at an art opening and even one person with a door open to the street who was ticketed for an open container in public because the container could be viewed from the sidewalk outside. I was fortunate to find a pro bono lawyer willing to take the months-long ride with me to help prove a point about the ridiculousness of these tickets. Ultimately, we wore out the court which tossed the ticket with no ruling.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/nyregion/27nyc.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=kimber%20vanry&st=cse

    Enjoy the ride!
  • Dude, Sterling2000 is unfortunately right. Pragmatically, it's best to just give the city its alms and move on. Ideally however, I would say fight it until there are no teeth in your mouth. Be prepared to spend an incredible amount of depressing time within the rank courtrooms of NYC, however.
  • So did they only come up here to get a couple quick summons on a party of 7 white, not-so-intimidating young adults? Really?

    Um, you're using your whiteness as a positive quality to imply the police would better spend their time hassling your brown neighbors? Seriously?
  • Didnt you get the memo? White is right :D/
    OP I was on your side till I read that statement. Now I just think you felt entitled.
  • Chances are that when you show up for court, the summons will get thrown out. Many of the summonses for Open Container get dismissed because the factual allegations, which the cops must write down on the summons, are often insufficient under the law to support the charge.

    Your post reeks of entitlement because you think the police should've given you a free pass on the basis of your white skin and "not so intimidating" demeanor. I won't even go there to surmise publicly what "not so intimidating" is code for, but I think I get the picture. You are lucky that this run in with the cops ended with the mere issuance of a summons, especially in light of the way you asserted yourself to the police. I make my living representing poor people charged with crimes. I have had many many clients who were doing exactly what you and your friends were doing- nothing more than enjoying a beer peacefully, but who experience a very different outcome: instead of being given a summons, they are typically arrested, handcuffed and must wait behind bars, often times for 24 hours or more, before they meet an attorney and appear before a judge. The only difference between you and them is that they have brown skin.
  • boprey wrote: [quote=Lexie Z]do you think because you are white excuses you from being harassed by New Yorks finest.... That was a really ignorant statement. I am glad you got a summons :)
    No, I don't think because I am white I am excused by default. I just called it as I saw it. In this situation, I was an easier target. Last I checked, Crown Heights was not the neighborhood of Cliff Huxtable. Catch my drift?

    Catch my drift.... are you F'in kidding me? do you put your white robe and pointy hat on before you leave the house or when you get where your going? I hope some Cliff Huxtable type slaps the shit out of you. Racist
  • boprey wrote: [quote=Lexie Z]do you think because you are white excuses you from being harassed by New Yorks finest.... That was a really ignorant statement. I am glad you got a summons :)
    No, I don't think because I am white I am excused by default. I just called it as I saw it. In this situation, I was an easier target. Last I checked, Crown Heights was not the neighborhood of Cliff Huxtable. Catch my drift?

    Damn I just caught the Cliff Huxtable part. No I don't "Catch your drift"

    Would you care to elaborate?

    I
  • 171 Rogers was formerly a crack den and the site of numerous narcotics arrests and even a murder,(probably wasn't mentioned in the Craigs List ad). The Officers in this case are in fact correct, a rooftop is similar to a lobby or a stoop, in that it is considered a common space. The fact that the landlord allows tenants access to the roof doesnt entitle its residents to consume intoxicants there. BBQ's are also illegal on rooftops, fire escapes etc. Obviously the Police were called there for a reason, its not common practice for Police to randomly ascend to rooftops. I would argue that being white and displaying American flags doesn't entitle you to break the Law. Also, I'm not sure if you realize this, a good majority of the Community hates your occupation of "their" territory almost as much as they hate Police. Your summones you can now wear as a badge as a right of passage in the hood.
  • As KWOC says, "Also, I'm not sure if you realize this, a good majority of the Community hates your occupation of "their" territory almost as much as they hate Police." -- that's the point I'm making about my super saying somebody didn't want me having a good time.

    About this whole skin thing, you guys are taking it out context. My point is the police avoided the "brown skin" (as you have referred to them) on the street because of THEIR fear, and instead approached US. I didn't tell them to do this.

    My point was the group below on the street was clearly causing more chaos and noise than my party was. It's 100 people versus 7 people. Loud rap music vs Beach Boys. Nothing against rap. That'd be racist. Kids on bikes, scooters all over the sidewalk (which is illegal) and road, running back and forth with limited parental supervision... some were even drinking beer! On the sidewalk! I asked the police if they had written any of them up and they claimed they were keeping an eye on them. Uh huh.

    How does one state the probability or hint at the statistics of something that involves race without sounding racist to those who are sensitive to comments pertaining to race? There's no way. So, you'll peg me as a racist wearing my white robe regardless of what I say to defend myself. Which is silly, and ignorant. But that's okay. I'm not here to argue that. I'm looking for input on the legality of the situation. All I gave you was a little backstory and a pretty picture to draw in your mind.
  • Kids are allowed to bike/ride on the sidewalk until they're 13.
  • Propane bbq on ground floor only, charcoal ok elsewhere as long as at least 30 feet from any combustible surface, so like the roof deck of my building not ok, made of wood... Fire escape never ok, not even for plants technically.
  • Lexie Z wrote: do you think because you are white excuses you from being harassed by New Yorks finest.... That was a really ignorant statement. I am glad you got a summons :)
    Yes I too was wondering why this guy had to bring race into this :-(
  • We didn't get the ticket for BBQ though. It's open container, which doesn't make sense to me.

    Even the previous poster with the article and being on the stoop is one thing (still ridiculous), but this is a fucking private roof. Perplexing.
  • boprey wrote: . My point is the police avoided the "brown skin" (as you have referred to them) on the street because of THEIR fear, and instead approached US. I didn't tell them to do this.

    .
    Now why would you assume the cops were afraid of the "brown skin" people? Your sense of white entitlement is oozing through your post and making me feel nauseous :-(

    Sounds like you would do better in Wburg

    Also, with disgusting attitudes like this, people wonder why they get spit at

    *spits at boprey*
  • Did I miss the memo that this is the board for talking trash?

    There's a way to discuss things, folks. Even if something boils your blood, either address it in an adult manner or move along.

    Save the petty personal insult game for some other site.
  • Jefffrey, with all due respect what I wrote was nowhere close to a "petty personal insult", trust me if I was doing that you would definitely know ;-)

    I just said what I had to say in regards to the posts nothing more, nothing less
  • Better in Williamsburg? Because I'm white? You get pissy and "spit" at me, call me racist, and tell me to move out of the neighborhood because I belong with
    white people. That's racist. Double standard.

    And don't quote me saying brown skin and address me as if I meant it as an attack, as if I was the first to say this, for I was clearly referencing the absurdity of that poster.

    Look, again, you can't deny racism is present in the world. The point I'm making is not that I'm racist but the white cops were in fact racist due to their selective enforcement. Get beyond the fact that you want me to be racist to fit your image of who I am. I have no issue with any race whatsoever. Do not label me ad racist for pointing out the flaws in society and a group of white police officers.

    Move to Williamsburg. Come on, man. I've been living here two and a half years now. I love this neighborhood. Sure it's tough when people want to threaten you and spit on you, but they only worth ignoring. I get past certain things and try to get to know people. It might do you good to get to know me, too.

    Peace and love.
  • Flexichick wrote: oh, jesus. here we go.

    <---pulling up a chair and getting some popcorn :-)
    Hey Flexi, I'm about to go get some more soda. You want one?
  • You have been called racist due to your own words that you wrote here no other reason so perhaps you should go back and reread what you wrote on the unlikely chance that it could assist you with getting a slight clue ;-)

    As for spitting, it was kind of a joke referring to a thread last week where white people in CH were whining because people spit on them and perhaps it could have been because they have shitty entitled attitudes like yours!

    Saying "I believe somebody could have called the cops because this neighborhood is full of dickheads" doesn't sound like you "love your hood" AT ALL so I recommended a different hood that perhaps would be less full of "dickheads" in your eyes
  • All right, I gotta ask at this point.

    Outside Child, the moderators here have been wondering something for the last few weeks, but we've kept a lid on it, giving a fair opportunity for things to play out differently.

    Heck, I've even gone out on a limb for you and done some nice things via pm for you myself (such as allowing you to change your name from BrooklynChange since that is supposed to be Kevin Powell's campaign thing or something).

    Can you explain the following?

    IP address for this post
    69.112.101.36 ( ool-45706524.dyn.optonline.net ) [ 212 Posts ]

    Users posting from this IP address
    JAH [ 263 Posts ]
    Outside Child [ 212 Posts ]
    Christobel [ 22 Posts ]

    Several public warnings and directives to keep it nice and respectable have been utterly disregarded, similar to the other two cases of users in that distinguished list above.

    Speaking of the "it was just a joke" reasoning of late, seriously...

    Is it all just a joke?
  • jeffrey wrote: All right, I gotta ask at this point.

    Outside Child, the moderators here have been wondering something for the last few weeks, but we've kept a lid on it, giving a fair opportunity for things to play out differently.

    Can you explain the following?

    IP address for this post
    69.112.101.36 ( ool-45706524.dyn.optonline.net ) [ 212 Posts ]

    Users posting from this IP address
    JAH [ 263 Posts ]
    Outside Child [ 212 Posts ]
    Christobel [ 22 Posts ]

    Speaking of the "it was just a joke" reasoning of late, seriously...

    Is it all just a joke?
    Well my cable is off and I am on a neighbour's wifi and otherwise yes it was a joke
  • OutsideChild, I can still love Crown Heights with dickhead in it. They're everywhere. Just as I love this fine country which is filled with people abrasive like you. I see beyond the flaws in everything.
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