Split topic: US vs China economic policy

armchair_warrior · June 2010

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/IB15Cb03.html

The US as leading currency manipulator

jeffrey · June 2010

Yes, the US moves its interest rates due to economic pressures (thereby effecting changes in currency exchange rates). So what? Monetary policy is supposed to be an instrument used to manage growth and avoid overheating.

That's just the point...that China is not floating their currency whatsoever.

They get a free ride off the rest of the world, off countries large and small, to expand production as much as they want without the same magnitude hangover of inflation that the rest of the world is subject to.

China can routinely and harmfully dump cheap goods in foreign markets at will and run up massive trade surpluses as a result, killing valuable manufacturing jobs in domestic economies from America to Zambia in the process.

Talk about an uneven playing field...

armchair_warrior · June 2010

you read too much into american political propaganda. there is no dumping, efficiency in manufacturing isn't dumping. china maximums its production in manufacturing low cost goods its economy of scale.

its like calling us farms dumping, us farms are one of the most efficient because of the scale.

some places due to natural climate or people as a resources would do things better and more efficient than some other places. like tropical countries for certain fruits and other stuff. doesn't mean they are dumping, they are just better at it. china's management of labor is better at it than say those african countries.

people in a capitalistic environment do best what they are naturally are good at. usually people fail is when they do things outside of what they are good at, its like a tall guy who is very good at basketball trying to be a professional tunnel rat.

armchair_warrior · June 2010

like i said in many other post white people are projecting their own histories of what they did to other peoples around the world and now they are fear mongering and projecting. here is good google example of that fear and hatered. most of modern day problems in todays world can be traced to west rise and destruction of the old world order that was there. africa, asia and middle east had a balance relationship for a long time before the west join the equation. and when they came to the americas they destroy everything. this is the second age of globalization.

Google Suggest Thinks The Internet Is "Terrified Of Chinese People" (GOOG)

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Eric Krangel | Feb. 5, 2009, 3:23 PM | 33,942 | comment 124

The idea behind Google (GOOG) Suggest is type a few words into the Google's search box, and an algorithm figues out what the full search is likely to be based on what everyone else is searching for.

It's a great service, and we use it all the time. But we were a little shocked to see Google's picks for the phrase beginning "i am extremely."

What does the Internet have against the Chinese?

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/2009/2/google-suggest-thinks-the-internet-is-terrified-of-chinese-people-goog#ixzz0qzagphKH

China is a sleeping dragon, waiting to wake up and viciously devour your life and soul!

My friends, today you should beware the threat of China like never before! As you sit comfortably at home or toiling at work, the nation of China is training its male citizens like crazy so they can enact their eternal end goal…World Domination.

I am extremely terrified of Chinese people, but I am not racist. You should feel the same way too.

Much like their brethren in the USSR and the Democratic party, the Chinese are atheistic wonders. Their lack of morals means they have no problems developing WMDS with which to bring massive death, all while doing genetic manipulation and cloning to ensure population boom.

Only 60 years ago, these Asian peoples joined up with Adoldf Hitler in order to destroy the most moral nation on Earth. Even though their attacks took the life of many good men on a day of infamy, America was blessed to rain bombs of freedom and nurture resultant liberty within a very dark Asian culture.

Despite past American grace, the menace of the the People’s Republic of China truly a great peril to the world today. Indeed, these people seek nothing but to steal land from the West and kill you and your family dead in the process.

Not only a few years ago, China managed to reconquer the lands of Hong Kong and steal it back from Great Britain, all while no one did anything about it.

You see, dear readers, the fact of the matter is that the Chinese communists are very cold, calculating and harsh people. The core values of Chinese communism include wanton carnality, stealing, bringing death and providing slothful people with income. From the time it’s formed as a zygote, even every Chinese baby’s heart is innately filled with much hate for not only you, but your children as well. It’s a part of their cultural heritage to hate the good Eest.

Historically, Chinese people have naturally wanted to bring destruction and great mayhem to all things American. Liberals will tell you lies and say this is not true and very extreme, but mark my words. Liberals want nothing more than to see a small population of American overran by billions of Asians. This is why they support abortion.

Now skeptics and atheists out there will say that Chinese kill their young too, and yes, you’re right. It’s true. Reports show that each and every day the Chinese people brazenly sacrifice their young women in pagan ceremonies, so that their men may have more supplies and food stuffs to consume as they train for battle.

What battle, you may ask?

Know that the Chinese are going to attempt a great battle, battle being perhaps better described as a world domination plan. Such endeavors typify their nature, as their culture still does not value the principles of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Asia still is bitter about WW2, and how we showed them new ways to live outside their old Pagan tradition, and it’s for this reason that you must be very afraid. At its roots China embraces communism, a practice which noble men like Senator McCarthy, President Ronald Reagan and the somewhat liberal John Paul II fought against with all their heart.

Much like when the Soviet Russians were the powerhouse of liberalism, the Chinese are busy performing all sorts of nuclear experiments, genetic manipulation and training of troops. They are even responsible for the recent housing market crunch and faltering US economy.

How can we combat this communist threat?

Right now, YOU CAN NOT. Bill Clinton was caught giving our nuclear secrets to China and President Obama has let them buy up all of our national debt. Not until you write your Congressman and demand McCarthyism once again be our national standard, the menage of Chila will continue to grow.

Unfortunately, next time they may pick you and your precious family as their Pearl Harbor! Call your politicians today and demand a return of McCarthy, all for you and and the bring joy to your kid’s future.

http://christwire.org/2009/02/i-am-extremely-terrified-of-chinese-people/

jeffrey · June 2010

armchair_warrior wrote: you read too much into american political propaganda. there is no dumping, efficiency in manufacturing isn't dumping. china maximums its production in manufacturing low cost goods its economy of scale.

Wow, you really have the wool pulled firmly up over your eyes.

You failed to refute even a single point of the following, about their currency peg (talk about stacking the deck in their favor...):

They get a free ride off the rest of the world, off countries large and small, to expand production as much as they want without the same magnitude hangover of inflation that the rest of the world is subject to.

And no, the Chinese subsidize the hell out of products then dump them on world markets. The World Trade Organization has ruled this on several occasions.

China breaks international law. Period.

And they have lax labor laws allowing companies to pay workers next to nothing just to keep those products dirt cheap, to the point of where workers commit suicides in protest of low wages, commit riots and violent shutdowns at other factories protesting low wages at others.

All of that is real, not imagined. The suicides were not fake. The riots and worker factory revolts and shutdowns have been going on for the last few years.

China lies about and covers up its internal problems. Period. There are a nearly infinite number of pieces of actual evidence of this over the years. If you are looking to identify Chinese "culture," imposed top-down from its government, you may start right there.

And for all the trouble over civil unrest in Thailand right now by the poor revolting against a privileged few taking ever more, China has a much higher ratio of growing poor and concentration of the rich.

What's been happening in Thailand, as well as all these factory revolts in China is just a taste of what China may face in terms of labor struggles and the cost of providing an unfair environment for its own citizens in the name of producing cheap goods and dumping them on the world's markets.

All of this is documented. You're fooling yourself with your own propaganda if you say it never happened, just as the Chinese government actively tries to censor its own press and deny that the video, pictures and on-scene reporting of major news organizations and accounts of international observers are all false.

And in spite of having one of the largest economies out there in a climate of huge new investment,

China still...

1) pretends it's a 3rd world economy and therefore should be allowed to pollute as it if had no means to pay otherwise, not subject to the same heavy restrictions as the US in cutting similarly high pollution levels.

2) willfully allows wholesale intellectual property theft within its borders, ripping off patents and even brand names for the manufacture and cheap sale of protected technologies, sporting goods equipment, film and music counterfeiting on a massive scale, and trademark (aka mickey mouse or Gucci) counterfeiting.

3) fails to maintain more cost-adding measures to ensure that the products flowing to the world from its factories are not themselves toxic, allowing their manufacturers to produce things as cheaply as possible whether or not they are actually even safe to buy, all in the name of dumping cheap goods on the market

4) routinely blocks major media and internet properties for reasons of censorship and also to deny access and give unfair advantage to Chinese companies that rip off other successful business models. Yep. They lock out the existing big international players, then let new Chinese ones come in and copycat.

But I guess it's only fair if China's blocking foreign companies and totally insulating and ensuring the success of it's own companies, right?

And they silently whisk away and imprison or kill anyone who would speak out against the practices of the government. For all his modernizations, Deng Xiaoping had blood on his hands. Like a Westerner in terms of modernization and abuses, but worse...on his own people.

Is it any wonder, then, that stupid crap comes up in Google, fed by decades of Cold War alignment with the invasion- and subversion-happy Soviet Union, it's (China's) inhumane and often violent treatment and bloody suppression of its own people, funding and arming of Mugabe, the Darfur genocides etc just to feed its industrial hunger, and pegging its currency super-low to become the world's creditor? Yes, that's some "culture" indeed.

No wonder there was this worker protest suicides movement. They'd be imprisoned or dead for protesting unfair labor conditions anyway.

Please tell me how, on each of the points above, China is creating anything other than an unsafe, unfair, inhumane, uneven playing field.

But go ahead pulling the wool over your eyes and believing the typical, traditional Chinese propaganda that's been pushed for decades. Kindly ignore actual evidence being reported there on the ground and believe just what the mother state tells you to believe. The Chairman thanks you!

And I think I remember what's next...I think this is the point where the propaganda manuals say any non-believers like me should just be called an SP, right?

boygabriel · June 2010

I actually didn't originally intend to split this topic, but I messed up somewhere along the way - so here we are.

armchair_warrior · June 2010

lol you guys don't even understand what it means to be so called a currency manipulator? us vs china on currency.

us does it on a larger scale than china does. the only reason china doesn't "float" its currency is very simple and you guys should be thankful is the dollar would be worthless. it wouldn't bring back crappy manufacture jobs that Americans wouldn't do. hell there is jobs here right now only illegal labor would do.

back to the currency issue. if china let its currency traded without propping up the dollar their dollars would be useless America would face super inflation via something like Zimbabwe. There is no point in china keeping the dollar but to prop it up for their own holdings. They made a mistake and now in a suicidal spiral along with the us on this road.

unless america fundamentally start addressing its spendy ways, the trade deficit isn't even a big deal. but spending on weapons and social/corporate welfare is. talk about fair trade america has trade restriction on tech going to china that wants to buy and weapons too and property and other things.
china isn't allow to buy many things here in the us at all. the us wants balance trade with the world. it should drop resistances and stop playing the game of oh its not fair etc... us set up the whole system of trade post ww2.

china is just playing the system that the us and west set up better than the creators of it even if the game is stack against it.

american's wouldn't bat a eye if say israelis or biritsh brought places and things in the us to offset any trade, but if china tries to buy some thing here people scream bloodly murder. you can't have it both ways. either let people buy what they want or don't bother shouting oh its unfair trade.

talk about balance trade it is a myth. balance trade is just something politicians created. its like a doctor goes to McDonald and buys burgers. and over the years he expects the McDonald owners to go to him for say surgery. to balance out the money spent there. doesn't work like that.

china is just a final destination for assembly, some of the components from from all over the world. china has to get the raw resources from some where. final assembly is very cheap vs the components. china has imbalances with alot of countries to buy those components and resources. doesn't mean shouldn't would be screaming bloodly murder like idiot politicians and people who buy into this myth.

think about how ridiculous it would be if china would require Saudi Arabia(oil) to buy the same amount of goods or even south korea(high tech components). wouldn't make sense.

but for Americans its always easier to blame some foreign country for it's ills.

if they won't buy us dollars right now, us would become the next Greece. their dollar holdings are useless, they can't buy anything with it. think about it, they are merely holding pieces of paper that uncle sam keeps printing out at will. only if they sell those dollars. The Japanese know this and so many asian and middle eastern countries. They are just merely playing along with the ponzi scheme that is the us dollar.

oil is traded in dollars so is most commodities. If they were allow to trade their currency openly, the commodities would be much cheaper to buy and offset any difference by buying tons of dollars to buy them in the first place. they don't need to use dollars instead they could use their own.

But the system of international trade and IMF and world bank etc.... are control by the west. why do you think china and other developing countries like Brazil and India etc.. wants more say in those organizations, simply still control by the west. they are mostly located here and Europe. system is stack any judgment against 3rd world countries is a joke.

IMF didn't even use the same rules it has for the 3rd world vs say Greece. if Greece wasn't a European country. why do you think 3rd world country is siding with Iran. simply because they are sick of being the told the same lies and pressure by the west.

this would be my final post on currency you guys don't and can't gasp true international trade and currency etc....

hitokiri · June 2010

HAHAHAHA

I love it when someone rebukes AW with facts and then he just turns around to say that you read too much into things and then tries to steer the conversation in another direction as to not have to answer to said facts.

I'm gonna watch Jeff waste his breath

jeffrey · June 2010

Heh, naww...no need to go against blind propaganda further than to say the following.

He only gets the currency thing half right:

It will suck, but mostly for China, losing their stacked deck after all these years. The US and EU are not Zimbabwe, lol. Far too huge a consumer base, far too liquid in terms of investment and capital mobilization, and large and available work force, infrastructure and other resources.

There would be some inflation only in the immediate short term, before domestic factories and labor force in countries across the world could transition to meet the new demand locally and worldwide for goods that are now free to compete head to head against each other, not pinned down by one country's fake bullsh*t advantage.

But yes, China finally losing it's fake currency crutch would cause things to get "real" in China, real fast. Deflation (short term) as the currency floats upward and global institutional investors and trading partners load up on Chinese currency and gov't bonds. Then inflation and slowdown (long term) at home in China due to the over-investment and over-production binges of recent decades, in addition to world markets having better competition and demanding more costly quality product assurances, and an increasingly angry labor force demanding higher wages.

In other words, the market equilibrium and level playing field they've been dodging for decades.

Armchair, for all this discussion of China's vast expertise and advantage in [inferior goods] production, call me when China finally decides to compete fairly instead of insisting on training wheels and swimming floaties.

Oh yeah, and whenever they address all the other reprehensible b.s. that makes them among the world's largest goons.

The Sicilian Cosa Nostra or Russian (or heck, Chinese) mob should have such a fixed racket.

But yeah, guessing this is just wasted breath, because armchair denies Asia's own thousands of years of conquest, wars, genocides and violent, repressive empire-building to arrive at the idea that Asian culture is innocent, China is all nice fluffy bunnies and it must be the Europeans that are to blame for all of this and the overall giant worldwide anti-Asian conspiracy all because of the shitty (yes, agreed, truly shitty...no argument there) treatment he's received in various neighborhoods.

armchair_warrior · June 2010

jeffrey wrote: Heh, naww...no need to go against blind propaganda further than to say the following.

He only gets the currency thing half right:

It will suck, but mostly for China, losing their stacked deck after all these years. The US and EU are not Zimbabwe, lol. Far too huge a consumer base, far too liquid in terms of investment and capital mobilization, and large and available work force, infrastructure and other resources.

There would be some inflation only in the immediate short term, before domestic factories and labor force in countries across the world could transition to meet the new demand locally and worldwide for goods that are now free to compete head to head against each other, not pinned down by one country's fake bullsh*t advantage.

But yes, China finally losing it's fake currency crutch would cause things to get "real" in China, real fast. Deflation (short term) as the currency floats upward and global institutional investors and trading partners load up on Chinese currency and gov't bonds. Then inflation and slowdown (long term) at home in China due to the over-investment and over-production binges of recent decades, in addition to world markets having better competition and demanding more costly quality product assurances, and an increasingly angry labor force demanding higher wages.

In other words, the market equilibrium and level playing field they've been dodging for decades.

Armchair, for all this discussion of China's vast expertise and advantage in [inferior goods] production, call me when China finally decides to compete fairly instead of insisting on training wheels and swimming floaties.

Oh yeah, and whenever they address all the other reprehensible b.s. that makes them among the world's largest goons.

The Sicilian Cosa Nostra or Russian (or heck, Chinese) mob should have such a fixed racket.

But yeah, guessing this is just wasted breath, because armchair denies Asia's own thousands of years of conquest, wars, genocides and violent, repressive empire-building to arrive at the idea that Asian culture is innocent, China is all nice fluffy bunnies and it must be the Europeans that are to blame for all of this and the overall giant worldwide anti-Asian conspiracy all because of the shitty (yes, agreed, truly shitty...no argument there) treatment he's received in various neighborhoods.

lol look at tibet, is there racial genocide? answer is no thats the chinese way.

if Tibetans stuck to the old Chinese way of doing things they would of have their semi independence. my people for example we have always been semi independent of Beijing. As long as you a knowledge their power, they wouldn't care what you do locally. we now own most of china through economic means. even though china is communist, my people didn't bother listening to Beijing. we are pure capitalist and we started it way before they officially allow it to happen.

another example is we aren't allow to keep weapons, but we had weapons, the communist government know about it. they don't actively go after local people for their weapons. when we went to the us we turn in our cave full of rifles.

in the chinese political system, locals can have alot of things just don't challenge Beijing in name.

the system with TIbet was simple, they were allow to do what ever they wanted as long as they didn't have their own country. how else the Dali lama and his followers had rebellions? they were allow to have weapons etc... as long as they didn't try to declare their own country.

myth and Chinese government promotes it is there is only one Chinese people etc..

since the first unification, there are many different "chinese" people and languages. just nobody challenges the central government. locals run their own shows. only defense of the whole is allocated to the central government other wise. locales like my people always kept arms just in case the government in power in charge at the time ever go nuts.

my people had the only free port in china during ww2 and is the only western treaty port without any western troops or colony and the only part of china that has never been conquered. we use to have over seas colonies in south east asia etc... it's easier to just let powerful groups take over superficially than fight them. we still control most of the economies of south east asia and china. most chinese american business are own by us. we are called the jews of china.

Split topic: US vs China economic policy

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