Avatars -- A Virtue Attached To Assuming Recreational Skin

Interesting question- I've met many avatars here IRL - many became friends, some became enemies, and one became my husband.

Advantages? Well, it's not always that easy to meet your neighbors and you can do that here and form a community without having to reveal your true self.

But really, I mean, if your going to speak your truth, why hide? You think we'll (the royal we) treat you differently? Highly doubtful.

Personally, I've always hated when some folks have come on here and said stupid crap to others that YOU KNOW they wouldn't say to their face, so I guess the disadvantages for me would be bullshitters who think they're hot shit online, but in reality they're a bunch of pussies who would NEVER speak like that in person.*

* For all you paranoids- this isn't directed at anyone specifically- so get over thinking that it's "all about yoooouuuu."

I'm a people person.

MHA wrote:
I think the same can be said for my avatar, MHA. 'My Heart is African' says most things about me. It's how I see the world, and how I respond to things. I believe that to say candid things in flesh and blood would lead to reprisal on some level. I couldn't tell my bosses who made racist jokes in front of me to shut the fuck up ("Why don't you smile more MHA? Your people have such pretty teeth"), and when I wear the MHA skin I believe that I can speak truth better to power.

That's so sad to me MHA. I tend to be one of those people who will talk to anyone and tell you the truth to your face. I have gotten into a lot of confrontations about other things people have said and done and could not imagine being any other way.

(since MHA has made accusations of moderators repeatedly in public forums lately, the response will similarly be in public)

There he goes again, in denial that it's his actions, not his ideas that threaten his presence here.

When will you finally claim responsibility for your own actions, instead of always blaming others? You get upset at folks calling you out for playing the victim...then go right on playing the victim claiming it's just the mods that are unfairly after you, and innocent ol' you are constantly in danger of being silenced for no good reason.

You remain blind to the fact that the dagger above your head is of your own making. You put it there, no one else.

No moderator here cares one way or another about anyone's right to discuss their politics and beliefs. Alleging otherwise is a copout. We have all kinds here that can get along perfectly well. We've seen it all. People have always had a right to their own ideas here, so long as they are respectful of others. All these digs at the (all volunteer, by the way) moderator team charged with keeping some semblance of order are merely self-serving.

This is akin to a tree breaker that blames anyone that would stop him from making a mess of the neighborhood.

The sole matter at issue here is how you treat people here. Nothing else.

Any statement otherwise is either willfully blind or willfully disingenuous.

(and no, there is no relation between "Indian" and "disingenuous" either)

Please take responsibility for and ownership of your own actions. Whining about moderators after throwing grenades is exactly what it appears to be.

To remain on topic, the tendency of some in anonymity is just to rile things up.

Before long, those that jokingly refer to Damon Wayans' Farakkhan character soon become it themselves by invoking the horrors of Middle Passage to every little thing including the selection of todays' cheese sandwich.

I never cared much for that movie...

Subject: Re: Avatars -- A Virtue Attached To Assuming Recreational Sk

MHA wrote: I must say I enjoy the anonymity being MHA has brought me. It affords me the opportunity to tell it like it is with little fear of reprisal -- save for the moderator's wrath, of course. In addition, it has enabled me to engage in a type of discourse I would not be able to in have as an identifiable person, for fear of material and social consequence. I would not, for instance, talk about the nefarious activities that occur in the neighborhood. It's obvious that there is some familiarity between some of the Avatars here, and I wonder if being known by your neighbor is such a good thing. I would think that it constrains honesty.

I've gotten requests to reveal 'MHAself', and I don't feel so inclined because of the aforementioned reason. I am wondering if anyone is willing to engage in dialogue about the Avatar sensibility; the advantages and disadvantages thereof.

ah, avatars.

I've found that on a neighborhood board such as this, avatars are often actually constraining, not merely liberating.

....I try to always act as if the anonymity I believe I have could be easily broken. I'd advise you to consider this advice as well. ...based on what you've typed, and the amount of information most people leave on the internet on various sites, it wouldn't take much work by a curious person to figure out who you were, where you lived, where you worked, etc.

That said, I find it fun to let some people know my identity, but keep it from others. It is often quite entertaining to read people's assumptions of who I am based on what I write, and then to reveal my identity in person.

But, because I show up to various get togethers that this board creates (the occasional bar crawl, bike ride, etc), I've met the majority of the regular posters. Sadly, my ongoing ability to enjoy this simple pleasure is constrained.

--Some people think I am less annoying in person, others disagree.--

Another fun part of actually meeting the people in real life is I get to know what they do for a living. ....this allows me to assign some weight and credibilty to their opinions and statements on line.

I also believe it causes me to know when I should shut up because I am out of my league. Some posters (like my Favorite Nemsis Scarlett) would argue I don't actually follow through on this knowledge.

In case you haven't noticed, most of the posters here are not unread or uneducated fools. ...yea, there are exceptions.

...but I often smile when I see people, especially newbies, make the mistake of "not knowing who is in the room" when they talk.

MHA, I must say that you have repeatedly brought such smiles to my face over the past few weeks.

When you first got here, it seemed you did nothing but type ill-informed, provocative, sophomoric nonsense, without realizing the laughter you were giving myself and others.

I am pleased to report that you have recently gotten much better, and seem to be now finding a home behind your barely anonymous online identity.

Don't worry, you weren't the first to make the mistake of not looking around the room before you typed. ...and you certainly won't be the last.

Sometimes in life, no one really holds your actions against you. ...this is one such time.

If you read the thread on last nights pub crawl, you will see that lnelson and I spent some quality time together after several beers. You should know that you came up in the conversation.

...as did the irony and great humor resulting from your earlier comments toward her regarding her lack of understanding and committment to civil rights.

You'll have to ask her in person for more detail.

But as she writes:
--Stay tuned for the 'lnelson leaves Brooklyn to fight injustice old-time lefty style while WhyNot looks on jealously" sequel to last night's event, coming to a bar(s) near you sometime in the next 4-5 weeks!--

I'll give a hint: lnelson just scored a gig that is tangentially related to the efforts described by the first link on May 4, 1961, and involving some of the risks of the second link. ...but I think she'll be flying down there, not taking a bus ...and word has it she'll get to be undercover.
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/civilrightstimeline1.html
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmjustice4.html

See you in a few weeks?

:oops:

MHA wrote:

I could care less who you are, who she is, or who anybody is on this medium.

Your indifference to your audience confirms your actual identity:

You're the guy on the soapbox in the public park (i.e. Brooklynian Park), spouting his unique impressions of reality to whoever walks by. He doesn't care who they are, or bother to adjust his speech to the most effective way of persuading them. No, he just insists on being heard, without regard for actual communication.

The fact is, you have no monopoly on intelligence or thoughtfulness. This board has a number of people who are fiercely intelligent, and some who bring deep scrutiny to subjects both trivial and profound.

By choosing not to know your audience, and consequently underestimating them, you damage your own credibility and thus your ability to persuade.

True.

..and the result ends up being something like this video that Mama posted in another thread:



....which doesn't do either MHA or me real justice.

i.e.
A. From what he has told us, MHA isn't a white female.

B. I don't really like pancakes.

jeffrey wrote: You would never know this from my avatar but I am a grand master of pancake-fu.

Cool. I'm glad the analogy is working.

I just realized that one can like "pancake-fu", without actually liking pancakes. This site and its intelligent people keeps teaching me new stuff.

MHA, I haven't weighed in on this thread yet yet (except for the 'blush face'), because from reading your posts elsewhere - especially your Tree Branch Breaker thread, in which there was ample evidence that you are interested in cooperating with your neighbors, listening to suggestions from knowledgeable sources, and shifting your plans regarding the problem with Steve in accord with those suggestions - I have gotten a fuller picture of you and see that you really are willing and able to listen to others.

And your point about the potential dangers of having your actual identity known by the people in your neighborhood who commit crimes is well taken. Even if it's tough to imagine that they themselves troll this board seeking your identity, it's fair to think there could be a real risk involved in associating your face with some of the neighborhood initiatives you've raised here (e.g. Steve). And while I doubt that any of the people who (as avatars) do hang out and post on this board would do anything to harm you, some of your more contentious postings could possibly lead to verbal confrontations if in-person contact were possible.

But the fact is that because this is a community board and the community is small, there's no bright line between on- and offline personas. It's more private than Facebook but less private than a forum where people more than likely will never meet in person because they are not all in the same place.

Over time, you have made many comments suggesting frustration at the sense that something you've posted was misunderstood or that you are being attacked ad hominem instead of responded to based solely on your avatar’s assertions. But to poorly paraphrase the Latin, the fact is that every one of us here is a hominem. As I said before, especially in the case of frequent posters, there is no bright line between individual and avatar. On Brooklynian, this is in part a function of the fact that we live in real neighborhoods (or in the case of Sunset Park/Windsor Terrace/Park Slope/Prospect Heights/Crown Heights at least, a mega-neighborhood made up of contiguous semi-discrete units) that all of us experience differently. Those differing experiences, themselves function of our individuality and humanity, are the subject of some of the most interesting conversations on this board – and sometimes, the most hostile.

Which is why, as WhyNot has said, it's important to pay attention and know "who's in the room."

whynot_31 wrote: Throughout your early posts, you were acting in the manner I describe above.

They reeked of an "I know all the answers, and that everyone else is an idiot" attitude ...the definition of "sophomoric".

Not knowing the audience is just bad public speaking technique.

I know Booklaw. I met him after PMing him an explanation of something I'd written because another poster suggested it might offend him. It turned out he wasn't offended, and following that we became actual real-life pals.

Because I know him, I can say confidently and from personal knowledge that Booklaw is a very smart and discerning dude who knows his fair share about both soapboxes and genuinely speaking truth to power. In fact, it is essential to his professional expertise that he be exquisitely attuned to the difference between them. That's who you're in the room with.

Moreover, regardless of who and what Booklaw is both professionally and as an individual, avatarBooklaw’s comment about you being the 'guy on the soapbox' was entirely on point with this thread. I’d say it looks a lot like a metaphor for the perception (his, mine, others’ as evidenced by this thread) of how, at times, you've used your avatar on Brooklynian.

The metaphor goes like this: Even though you can see the soapbox guy's face, he's anonymous because he's not talking to anyone in particular and he doesn’t care who’s listening. Hardly off target, as you characterized it in you (also metaphor-based) comment about Booklaw's posting:

So your nasty reply,

MHA wrote: Wasting time talking about what [Booklaw] thinks I want and not focusing on the matter at hand -- i.e. the virtue of Avatars -- is as distracting as the uncreative graffitti tag that mars the very creative tag on the white expanse at Eastern Parkway and Franklin. Yo, stop watching how I do what I do and contribute something to the discourse; what say you on the virtue of avatars, aye or nay?

was perhaps unwarranted.

In the same vein, you and I have had a few long and rather fraught exchanges on a couple of threads, memorably (to me) about Alan Dershowitz and about why the term "The Jews" doesn't sit well with the Jews. Higher up in this thread, you state that you don't particularly recall exchanging posts with me. That's a shame, because I, like WhyNot and Booklaw, am an actual person. My real identity, like theirs and indeed yours whether or not there a face and name and background attached and explicated, is intrinsically wrapped up in that of my avatar. Given all of that, avatars/people who pay attention to who says what on Brooklynian, and whose interactions with those avatars/people is respectful of that underlying individuality and the accompanying political orientation, intellectual curiosity, etc that frequent posters reveal, tend to have less combative and more fruitful conversations.

Here is something you once wrote in response (broadly) to several things I wrote in the “Being Spit on Because of Who I Am” thread:

MHA wrote: I'm the person who has read Cornel West, and I am willing to pick up my copy of Race Matters, or anything else for that matter, to discuss. I will not give up my avatar. I prefer the mask, quite frankly. I believe that it is in or best interest to not get to know each other, and see what each other looks like. I have no interest in knowing who whynot_31 is other than what he might choose to say about himself here.

I'mHA Black nationalist. I am not shaking that off. I'mHA a Pan-Africanist, and I ain't givin' that up either. That's MHA politics. That's where I stand. MHA people don't have nuclear bombs, yet. [bold[So unlike Inelson who can afford the luxury of diddling with her individuality, I cannot afford that luxury.[/bold] [emphasis added by lnelson, June 8 2010] MHA people need to be free. My people, in this country, in the Caribbean and in the MHAtherland need to shake of the shackles of self-destruction and neo-colialism, and make the continent safe for its people. That's where I stand people, and all of this happy-go-lucky talking of coalition building and appreciating each other is just hippy stuff, if you ask me, but that's just me. I want power for Black people. That's what I am fighting for. And one day I know that we will get it. It won't be through aggression as so many of you types might think, but by self-discipline and self-respect.

If you want to argue the semantics of who the Jews are, and whether or not they constitute a homogenous fist, or an idle wiggling hand, then just think about the fact that if any of the countries neighboring Israel (or even those that don't) decide to act aggressively they will be nothing but dust the next day. I respect that. That's what I want for African people. All of you peacenik Jewish folk do your country a disservice begging for peace with Palestine. Swallow your bitter pill and live with the guilt of your neo-Manifest Destiny; and when the line is drawn in the sand, and the Iranian nuke is on its way, I wonder whose side you're gonna be on, because, baby, I have no doubt that it's comin'...

When your people were being baked and fried by the Nazis, there was no time for your ancestors to luxuriate on whether or not there was an 'us' or a 'them'. Because there WAS an us and a them. Clarence Thomas is a traitor to his people. He has abandoned any fealty, and that's that. But I guarantee you, if there comes ANOTHER time that he will need Black people in his corner, he will make the attempt and ask for our support.

Black people are being moved out of this neighborhood due to the subtle effective power of economics and you want me to sing 'Reach out and Touch, Somebody's Hand' with you? Are you nuts?? I can respect you, I can even break bread with you, but all of this lovey-dovey business is an illusion to just make YOU feel good about yourself: "Look at me, I am having intelligent discourse with a Black person." Meanwhile my rent is rising, and I don't have Jimmy's blond hair or Mary's milky white tah-tahs to gurantee me professional mobility. Get over yourself. You want to know why the spit flies when you walk by? It flies because Black people see right through YOU. They see that it's not about you wanting to know anybody. It's about you wanting to use them as a means to your end. I have no doubt that when the whitefolks move here, they know what their moving in will do. But they do it anyway, because ultimately, fuck it, it's about them, ain't it? So yeah, when you see the garbage and the spit and richocheting BB pellets, it's not right that all of that dysfunction exists, but don't separate it from the threads of time. Because it's all related. Don't act like it has nothing to do with our place in time, because it does. And that's the point I made initally, and that's the point I am making now. You can take your touchy-feely stuff and your self-congratulatory cooing. MHA's not interested.

As has been mentioned in this thread, I am about to leave Brooklyn to “fight injustice old-time lefty style while WhyNot looks on jealously," so here goes, here’s what I choose to say about myself here, and I do wonder if you give a damn:

I am a journalist. Apparently, I ‘look Jewish,’ or ‘seem Jewish’ to a lot of people, though in fact my father is a lapsed Catholic and my mom (and myself) a nonobservant, secular Jew. I am 30 years old. I am profoundly disturbed by the direction this country seems to be drifting in, so I am moving to the Deep South to be an investigator for a well-known organization that has a long record of successfully undermining/neutralizing/destroying white supremacist groups, domestic terrorist organizations, militant fringe movements, etc. Because of the nature of the work and the reputation of the organization, particularly its founder, the building I’ll work in is constructed to deflect truck bombs.

In between working in this ultra-secure building, I will be out and about doing actual reporting, with my name on it, and I will be going around collecting information from primary sources and in person, no Groucho Marx mask or anything to protect my identity. I will just have to be careful. I feel the work and attendant risks are worth it.

Bottom line? I walk the walk, and so do a lot of other people on this board.

If you really do want to change minds via your MHAvatar’s postings,

MHA wrote: My intent is not to get a vote here (well, to change minds IS a partial goal of all argument), but rather to express my own perspective of the world.

then incorporating that fact into your other assumptions about your fellow Brooklynians would do you a world of good.