PPW bike lane update

I believe the technical term for that is 'sidewalk'

^^bikers don't use bells/horns/verbal warning (bike on your left) nearly enough around here. On a bike it feels like people can surely hear you coming, but that's just not the case unless there is absolutely no other noise outside.

None of that is going to help to the point where it'll be smooth sailing for bicyclist. Just like on Grand St in Manhattan, there will always be new, uninitiated peoples to spill over the sidewalk and in to the bike path. Don't get me wrong - it's better than not having it, but let's not start thinking about a fantasy land - cyclists will never be able to safely go more than 10 mph (or so) along the path.

If you look at DOT"s presentation on the bike lane, it seems to indicate that they will be adding additional signage to poles and on the ground to warn cyclists and pedestrians about potential conflicts: (see page 8 )

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/PPW_CB6_4-12-2010-presentation.pdf

Better signage is needed, but also, bikers need to be prepared to treat that lane like a street, so no running the red lights, slowing down on yellows, and traveling only at safe speeds on green. I agree with the above poster that this means that bikers probably won't be able to do more than 10mph or so. If you want to go faster, you'll have to go into the park.

good one wrote: a little tidbit to think about: so what happens when it snows...they will plow PPW and push the snow, like they alway do, against the parked cars. the one lane that is a bike lane, will stay covered in snow until it melts because the lane with cars parked will be plowed in and cars will shovel the snow onto the bike lane and PPW will dwindle down to one lane for cars to get through. don't say bikers don't ride in the winter because they do.....i see them all the time. it only gets more interesting....

I'm not hardcore enough to ride when there's ice on the ground, but for those who are, there's this thing called salt.

eggcream wrote: Finally, if I see one more dope with the One Less Car t-shirt I'm going to open my door on him. It makes no difference to the environment

Stay classy, Mr Road Rage. Would you feel better if the t-shirts read "One More Parking Spot"?

True, Eggcream, it should say "One Fewer Car," but that's no reason to be mean.

Love the ppw bike lane and I have a car and no bike. It's a pleasure to walk to the park and greenmarket w/o worrying about being plowed down by a speeding driver. I have no problem looking both ways before entering the bike lane.

eggcream wrote: [quote=squindar]sounds like Marty's putting a stop to the PPW bike lane:

http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-brooklyn-bike-lane-prospect-park,0,3588858.story

" A Prospect Park West bike lane slated to be ready for the summer may never be finished after Borough President Marty Markowitz asked city Transportation Commissioner Janette Sadik-Kahn to put a halt to the project.

"What it's done in my opinion is caused a traffic congestion making it worse than it originally was, and taking away much needed parking from Park Slope residents," said Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz."

if you disagree with him, let him know:
http://brooklyn-usa.org/pages/contact_us.htm

Go Marty. First thing he's said that makes sense. People have to watch cars on one side and bikes on the other when they exit their car. Parking is a problem. Bikes as usual don't follow road rules even though they want bike lanes so it's more dangerous for pedestrians to cross the street. Less parking hurts everyone in the neighborhood. Bikers have lanes in the park. Finally, if I see one more dope with the One Less Car t-shirt I'm going to open my door on him. It makes no difference to the environment.

"Let's assume you saved a gallon of oil in your commute (a generous assumption!). Global daily energy consumption is 9.5 billion gallons of oil equivalent. ... So by biking to work, you save the equivalent of one drop in 10 gasoline tanker trucks. Put another way, it's one pinch of salt in a 100-pound bag of potato chips."

Well said. I've not seen those t-shirts yet but if I do I'll be sure to give the yuppie transplant the thrid finger salute. The problem with MOST(not all, need to highlight that word cause I know most of you non-native types will go crazy with that) bikers is they do not have regard for anything. This includes cars, pedestrians and other bikers. Yes, losing a traffic spot in a densely populated area is a major problem. Car owners and native New Yorkers shouldn't be inconvenienced by the influx of half-wit morons who gasp at the mere stie of an automobile and didn't realize they were moving to the big city.
I am tired of cyclist swerving out of their bike lanes into automobile traffic. I'm tired of having to stomp on the brakes because these cycling fools don't know the difference between RED and GREEN. You fools think the road is yours and yours alone. You're so quick to blame the big bad one ton piece of metal, but maybe if you came off of your pompous high horse and paid attention there wouldn't be so many problems. Cyclist are so far from innocent it's comical to read some of the comments here. Go ride your bike in the hundreds of city parks, stay off the main streets before you cause an accident.

BornnbredBrooklynite wrote: Yes, losing a traffic spot in a densely populated area is a major problem. Car owners and native New Yorkers shouldn't be inconvenienced by the influx of half-wit morons who gasp at the mere stie of an automobile and didn't realize they were moving to the big city.

NY is a city of pedestrians with mass transit woven into its DNA. There is no need, and certainly no right, to make room for personal autos.

BornnbredBrooklynite wrote: I am tired of cyclist swerving out of their bike lanes into automobile traffic.

So your solution is less bike lanes?

homeowner wrote: Back in the day, bikers rode in traffic with cars. Am I the only who thinks we all (bikes, pedestrians, cars) got along better then? I can remember the 80's & when friends took summer jobs as bike messengers. They loved it, and rarely complained about cars. Cars were seen as obstacles, something to get around.

Your memories are colored by time. Note that you're talking about friends who took jobs as bike messengers - you know, the people on bikes hated more than everyone except delivery guys?? Your friends were also young, likely in great shape, and in the throes of invincibility - who cares about trucks, cabbies, and reckless drivers??

I was there too. Anarchy is great when you're 19, and everyone's rules but your own can shove it.

I commuted to work on a bicycle into Manhattan starting in the late 90s, and believe me, it's a lot easier, a lot safer, and a lot less stressful than it used to be. And drivers today are more aggressive, more reckless, and less attentive than they used to be. Don't even begin to get me started on people who won't get off their damn cellphones while driving. And texting??? Even worse.

homeowner wrote: Now it feels like the discussion has been turned into something far more agressive on both sides. I don't mind sharing the streets. I just think that rather than approach of reducing car lanes and adding bike lanes has created this friction that would not existed if the city had instead simply enforced existing traffic laws and spent its money on a campaign to better educate drivers and bikers about their responsibilities while on the road. And I think the city only makes things worse when they do things like build the bike lane on PPW that gives bikers the right of way against pedestrians crossing with the light. That lane should have signals at each intersection the same as the cars. The bike lane on 9th avenue in the city is built that way, so why not this one?

Note that everyone can acknowledge that the bicycle infrastructure has resulted in far more people of *all* ages riding bicycles - it's not just messengers, delivery guys, and the spandex crowd any more. Sit on PPW on a summer evening, and you'll see families with small kids riding in both directions. THAT is why bike lanes were created - to make it safe for anyone to ride, not just twentysomethings with a disregard for their own safety.


Or look at what's happened over on Vanderbilt avenue. A wide road with reckless drivers and closed storefronts at night has become a neighborhood-friendly street, chock full of bars, restaurants, cute stores, and pedestrians. You can't tell me that what has happened over there is a bad thing.

As for signals - the stop lights on 9th avenue aren't because of pedestrian needs - it's due to the crosstown traffic & cars needing to turn on side streets. Pedestrians and bicyclists that are attentive to eachother can navigate their way just fine without eachother. Hitting the ground on a bicycle HURTS. As a rider, I am *constantly* aware of what's around me, because I do *not* want to hit the ground.

Education only works if there's enforcement as well, and as we have seen over and over again over the last few years, the NYPD could care less about enforcement, save one-off events when they can muscle groups of people around (e.g. Critical Mass, random quasi-legal checkpoints, etc). It's enforcement-by-show rather than actual enforcement.

If the NYPD actively enforced a 35mph speed limit on PPW, I'll bet you that bike lane, as awesome as it is, would have been a much harder sell. The DOT's own statistics had something like 20% of drivers going over 50mph on that road.

Enforce traffic laws on bicycles? Sure. Enforce them on cars first, and then you got it. Hundreds of people die every year due to reckless driving in this city, we could save far more in pain & suffering by doing something about that first.

i think we live in a generation of indifference, where neither cyclist or car drivers are concerned about the safety of pedestrians.
one example was ppw, which had been famous for the reckless drivers speeding from union street to 15th.st., which has slowed down after the lane reduction.

yet in brooklyn ,it's not unusual to read about three or four hit and runs a week ,some deadly .

i live by ppw and amazed how many ADULT bikers insist on riding on the sidewalk , weaving in and out of families and pedestrians who are out for a day of leisure and are forced to watch over their shoulders because arrogant bikers refuse to adhere to cycling laws.

as far as having classes for cyclist i find that humorous ,as these are not 12yr olds ,but ADULTS who have been riding bikes for years and are either stupid or totally indifferent to damage they may inflict on pedestrians.

the city should require cyclist to be licensed, which will help pay for development and maintenance of the lanes built for them..