Split topic: Chinese vs US global influence

armchair_warrior wrote: lol there is nothing to admit its not a chinese problem, its a internal sudanese problem. without the chinese they would be killing each other regardless. the problem was there before. its like saying thailand is a american problem. the two doesn't correlate.

You claimed that "when people do business they don't interfere with other peoples house holds".

Just b/c China didn't start the genocide in Sudan, doesn't mean they're not interfering.

The govt of Sudan, which would be weakend and poor otherwise, is being propped up with Chinese weapons, money and commerce. To claim China isn't interfering is just plain wrong.

Just as the US does elsewhere, China contributes to awful humanitarian crises and human misery.

Do not lecture me on the history of Sudan, or of colonialism in Africa.

I promise you I'm well read on the subject, probably better than you are.

Sudan's government is a weak unpopular dictatorship, and is propped up primarily by oil money and violence. If they weren't getting major international money, development and arms, it's possible they wouldn't even be in power any more.

I'm beginning to think it's you who doesn't know anything about what's happening in Sudan.

Two fun facts:

1. The US foreign policy and moralism is hypocritical.

2. China's relationship to the government of Sudan is morally repulsive and directly contributes to more death, suffering, and permanent power of the dictatorship of Al-Bashir and the National Congress.

fact that government has been there before china started to buy oil. so logically china isn't propping up that government.

think about it, if china wasn't there to buy oil before you think they wouldn't of been over thrown before this? wouldn't it make sense that they would of free themselves of their government?

This is extremely simplistic to the point of being false. The open civil war in the western part of the country didn't even start until this decade, so whether they were in power prior to China's arrival is irrelevant. Until this decade the central govt was never dealing with two civil wars at once, as they were until the peace accord with the south in 2005.

Governments become corrupt over time. People support a revolution, then it becomes a dictatorship, then it becomes less popular so the government increases military control and the use of force. It's happened elsewhere and it happened in Sudan.

The idea that people just easily overthrow governments they don't like is again simplistic to the point of being false. Ask the North Koreans about that - unless they actually do love Kim Jong Il.

those types of government will be there with or without china. its like some how china's fault for these failed states lol.

I never said it's China's fault. I said China does business with a government that perpetrated genocide. China doesn't control Sudan, but it influences events, such as providing arms to an army that's killing its own citizens.

Can you just admit this fact or are you in denial?

its very condensing typical western way of thinking. oh African's can't do this themselves etc...it must be some outside power doing this or they would fall apart, they don't need the west to tell them how to run their continent.

No, your generalization and stereotype of westerns is false and irrelevant. There are very specific dynamics at work between the Chinese and Sudanese governments. If you'd like go into specifics, I can. In the meantime, don't generalize my thinking, thanks.

You don't have the patience to engage with people who think differently than you.

Learn more patience or stop making political posts.

A complex situation indeed.