Looking for a well-maintained, large 2BR Duplex

Not using a broker can unfortunately limit your options. If you guys are planning to stay in the apt for a couple years, the cost of a broker can be worth it.

Otherwise you just kind of have to hope to get lucky.

I definitely recommend walking around the neighborhoods in question. Looking at local (real-life!) message boards, looking for flyers, talking to people, etc.

If you can afford to own rather than rent, then that's what you should do. Screw renting- it's just throwing money down the drain. $2600 isn't too far from a decent mortgage payment.

When you own, you also have to worry about the the market is doing.

....the upside down mortgage (wherein you owe more than your house/apartment is worth) is a fear based on real possibility.

I'm a big fan of owning if you are in a position to do it, so that you can build equity rather than make someone else rich. However, the mortgage, maintinance, and taxes on a 2 BR would likely add up to more than 2600 every month, especially if you put less than 20% down. You also have to consider the interest you won't be earning on the down payment.

On the other hand, though your monthly expenses will be higher initially, in the long run, it's usually worth it. Also, you get a tax deduction, so you can have less withheld from your paycheck, which puts more money in your pocket every week. Good luck with whatever you decide!

PS - two bedrooms are not that scarce, but I don't think there are that many duplexes on the market, so you may have to compromise or wait a while to find what you want.

Boygabriel wrote: [quote=Whatchuwant]However, the NYC is one of the few places that doesn't really see a dramatic drop in real estate prices.

This is true most of the time, but far from guaranteed. I have friends who've had bad experiences lately.

How many of them bought more than a year ago?

NYC real estate did take a notable hit in the last 3 years, but I would wager that anyone that bought in the last year (after the financial market crash and resulting r.e. market drop, and during a period of low interest rates) is not fretting over market prices.

If anything, other markets appear to have solidified and strengthened, which would point to much lower probability of another drop from low levels in the last year.

It would appear to me that this past year (and perhaps even still now) has been exactly the lower point in the cycle where renters might re-evaluate and become buyers if they can afford the down-payment.

Granted, that's mainly just a gut feeling. And I did have a lot of Tabasco yesterday.

***edited to add: The above is a reflection of NYC only. Much of Southern California, Florida and other parts of the US are still tanking or hopelessly flatlined and will continue to experience oversupply and deficient demand for a loooooonggg time.

Boygabriel wrote:

as for liabilities....I'll need an explaination of what you mean buy that.

I guess liabilities wasn't the right word, but I just meant large unforseen costs down the line, such as unavoidable renovation & repairs.

Yes. Consider it like buying a used car, but multiply potential repair and maintenance surprise things by factors of x5 (apartment) or x10 or x15 (house). For that you should always make sure you keep some sort of emergency cash fund. Then there's renovation and upgrades.

Boygabriel wrote: [quote=jeffrey]How many of them bought more than a year ago?

They bought years ago and were forced, due to unforeseen circumstances out of their control, to sell now. The post-9/11 market crash was obviously a complete surprise, and few people were shrewd enough to act on the 00's housing bubble and not lose home value.

But you are correct, a downturn is frequently a buyer's market

Just as an extreme case, merely anecdotal sidebar discussion here, in terms of renting -vs -buying:

I have a few friends that stayed in sweetheart rent-stabilized and rent-controlled apartments. These were either locked in 10-15 years ago, or inherited from their grandparents at ridiculously low rates but the siblings are now settling down and need more individual family space.

Those were great deals and all, and they were the envy of everybody.

But in the long run these cases always bore out to be fool's gold unless they used that as an opportunity to build a nest egg over a few years and then pounce on short-term drops in the real estate market.

But none of them did. They were lulled into only paying $600/mo for a 1600sf doorman 3BR 2B on the Upper West Side for 15+ years. They thought they were set.

And at the flip side now, they notice people all around them that got in 15 or 10 years ago, some of whom have had the opportunity to trade up for larger space in the meantime and the (rs/rc) renters find themselves unable to even consider affording the standard of living they'd been lulled into enjoying all these years.

So they will either...

a) never own and build equity over the long term
b) be forced to move further out of the city
c) win the lottery and not have to worry about anything

Yes, these are just anecdotes and only represent those specific cases.

But if I were a renter, here are the only reasons I would stay a renter over the long term:

1) if I simply could not afford the down payment, the monthly expenses, or regular maintenance expenses involved with buying and owning

2) if I were not absolutely sure I was staying in NYC for at least another 10 years

3) if I had any sense that my financial situation might shift substantially lower in the near future (as in, job/company stability or going from a dual-income household down to a single-income household due to having a baby or someone going back to school or looming breakup/divorce, whatever)

Can't think of any others.

If any of the above were significant factors in a person's particular case, then renting is probably the way to go unless you are just swimming in money (in that case, next Brooklynian hang night is entirely on you ).

Otherwise my aforementioned Tabasco-influenced gut would suggest that this last year might be exactly the time that renters should be re-evaluating their position and comparing their options as a potential buyer/owner.

Trust me when i say.........

owning is ALWAYS better than renting if you do it smartly.

As a long time owner in bed stuy, as my parents before me, the trick is to get something that helps pay for itself.

And do NOT over extend yourself!

many people got caught up in the refi/cash out cow. When the market fell...they were over extended.

I have always liked the short stoop 3 family homes. One apt for the owner and two rentals. And they have always paid off for me.

My last one is on the market now due to divorce. But if I could keep it, i surely would. The rents pay everything and the write off is delicious!

Please consider buying. Trust me when i say bed stuy is going to do nothing but rise!

I'm glad you've had such a good experience but as I said, I have friends who weren't so lucky. Buying property is not a guaranteed return on investment, even in NYC. If you're forced to sell in a down market due to circumstances beyond your control you're SOL.

I have other friends who crunched numbers and decided to save money by renting for a while and investing the saved money elsewhere.

In general owning usually makes the most sense. My original disagreement was that it's always better to own, which isn't true, and that renting is 'just throwing money away', which also isn't true.

Investing in mutual funds, to name one example, is neither excessively risky nor would it be 'irresponsible' by any measure.

[quote="jeffrey"]Gold would have done well. People have been blowing the horn loudly on that since at least as far back as 2003 or so when it was about to hit $700/oz (too lazy to confirm on chart)

It's currently trading at $1200/oz.

Apple stock, too. If one believed that iPods and especially iPhones (and computers, of course) would continue to transform and redefine markets then one would have made a killing. $50 in 2006, currently trading at around $262.

And if you thought to invest in the most powerful backroom-dealing, global-bailout-brokering bank of our age, Goldman Sachs is now ($155) triple it's late 2008 crash low range price (~$50), and 50% higher than its price as late as March 2009 ($~100).
quote]

20/20 hindsight in the stock market ...were that we all had the crystal ball.