Am I being unreasonable here? (also, apt rant)...

urbancowgirl · August 2010

I'm interested to hear what you guys would do in this situation. I'll just lay out the specifics.

My husband and I have rented our apartment for two years and our lease is up (and we are paid through) September 1. It is a pet friendly apartment and we have two dogs. Our landlord is using a broker to show the place and we will be out of the apartment by end of next weekend (thus leaving the apartment empty for the remaining 2 1/2 weeks of our lease).

The kicker and my frustration lies in the fact that the landlord and broker are demanding that we make the apartment available to show at ANY TIME during this next week. Like most corporate drones, my husband and I work regular business hours and our dogs are at home. The landlord asks "can we just leave them outside"? Um, no. We can't. They would be DEAD in this heat. The broker says he is "pet friendly" and will be "respectful" of our dogs, but I don't like the idea of strangers traipsing through the apartment when we aren't there and potentially upsetting the dogs. We don't have crates and the dogs are friendly, but who knows what they would do in a situation like that. It just seems...kind of stupid.

The landlord and broker are Hasidic so we've even offered to show the apartment to prospective tenants ourselves on Saturday and we've offered to take the dogs and leave the apartment on Sunday if they would like to do an open house. We've also offered to have the apartment available to show during the week after 6 pm. The broker and landlord are refusing this, yelling at us even, that the place has to be available at all times during the day. The broker's line is "there are two types of showing the apartment, by appointment and impromptu. We do impromptu." Which is fine, whatever, but can they not wait and do that during the 2 1/2 weeks that the apartment will be vacant and paid for?

This is by no means the first time I've left an apartment in NYC. It's just the first time I've had such an uncompromising landlord. It's like talking to a brick wall. Am I crazy here? Should I just let them tear through the apartment at will?

whynot_31 · August 2010

Offer to let the landlord pay for a dog walker?

opossumqueen · August 2010

I'm in a similar situation. Have a dog and LL will need to have the broker show our place soon, and I also don't love the idea of people coming in with my dog while I'm gone. But think of it from the new renter's and LL's point of view. I think you both need to compromise. I plan to just make sure I or a walker can take my dog for a walk or put him in the yard when they show it.

When you're looking for an apartment, your'e in a hurry to find the right one and if the lease is supposed to start Sept. 1, I want to see it ASAP, not wait for weekends, etc. The LL could also see this as limiting since they will likely loose out on potential renters if they can't quickly show it.

What does seem reasonable is that they give you a set amount of notice (maybe 4 hours) before showing it so either you can get home and take the dogs out or you can arrange to have a walker take them out or put them in the yard (it's hot, but it's not that hot now as long as they have shade and water).

Also, not everyone has your schedule. When looking for our current place, I worked weekends and evenings so needed weekday showings.

I'm surprised they've gone this long without trying to show it.

boygabriel · August 2010

I don't know. It's a shitty situation for sure, but they kind of have a right to show the apartment.

Everyone needs to act within the animals' best interests, but not being able to show the apt any time you're not home is being a bit restrictive.

I went through this numerous times and just had to have faith that the broker wouldn't let my cats escape. I very specifically mentioned it as often as possible to any broker who was coming through.

urbancowgirl · August 2010

Yeah, that's the thing...I could arrange to be home or to have a dog walker come by if it was necessary they show it during business hours. However, they won't give any notice and don't make appointments with the prospective tenants.

I remember what it was like when we found this apt...we originally inquired about one place and ended up in the broker's minivan driving all over Bushwick going from one place to the next. The difference then was that all of the apartments were completely empty.

And, OpossumQueen, I'm also really surprised that they're just now starting to show it. We gave our notice back in...maybe, mid-May...and it's just now that they're all of a sudden like MUST HURRY.

I would feel differently (not GREAT about it) if we had cats, but the dogs I worry about. If I allowed this and, God forbid, one of my dogs DID bite a stranger then everyone would be like "why did that stupid girl let strangers into her house without introducing them to her dogs"?

This is why I have ulcers.

boygabriel · August 2010

The landlords refusing to make appointments is jerky and makes this situation much more difficult.

You could say you don't feel comfortable in case one of the dogs bites someone and would they (and all visitors) be willing to sign a waiver?

They might not want to deal with it and instead would choose to just give you a heads up so you can do something with the dogs.

urbancowgirl · August 2010

Yeah...that's a good idea. I honestly don't think the dogs would do anything, but I like to be on the safe side of things. They're rescue dogs and far more likely to be fearful of the 'intruders'--which kind of breaks my heart.

I also like whynot's idea, but I'd amend it to this situation and just offer to take them to doggy daycare everyday this week and deduct it from my rent. Preferably a nice doggy daycare with spa treatments and training classes and grooming. But damnit if I didn't pay my last month's rent up front.

whatchuwant · August 2010

Do you have any unemployed friends or friends that work nights that could babysit them during the day? Lord knows, we all know at least one person who's out of work these days....

hitokiri · August 2010

i would go the extra mile and change the tumbler on the door.

F the landlord and tell him he is required to make REASONABLE appointments for showing the apartment.

go here
tenant.net

modsquad2.0 · August 2010

Irregardless of what they want or what your lease says under NYS/NYC law they have no right to enter "impromptu". At the very least a legal Reasonable request would be to give written 24 hr notice. No access is required to be given on weekends.

Hours when access to be permitted. Except in emergencies, access to an apartment, suite of rooms, or rooms, shall be limited, to the hours between nine antemeridian and five post-meridian. Access shall not be required on Saturdays, Sundays or legal holidays except in emergencies.

Given the 9 to 5 time may be problematic for you there are plenty of givebacks to the LL that would make him happy. Such as foregoing the written notice and allowing access, say between 6 and 7 evenings. Or make him really happy and give him a open house on a weekend at your convenience.

cristina · August 2010

I have a dog and I would never -ever- let anybody in while I´m not there. My dog is extremely friendly, but it´s just not right. The LL and the broker should make an effort to schedule appointments that work for everybody - but they are clearly not willing to do so. It is not the tenant the one who should make all the effort for the LL to rent the place. For God´s sake, he will have more than 2 weeks very soon to show the apart. as much as he wants!! And you gave him notice in May and NOW he is in a hurry..pleeeease, give me a break!! Sorry but your LL and the brokers are being so selfish...typical...it makes me sick. You are right to be upset, they don´t deserve your kindness...

boygabriel · August 2010

I forgot about this. Modsquad is 100% right.

(legally speaking)

modsquad2.0 wrote: Irregardless of what they want or what your lease says under NYS/NYC law they have no right to enter "impromptu". At the very least a legal Reasonable request would be to give written 24 hr notice. No access is required to be given on weekends.
Hours when access to be permitted. Except in emergencies, access to an apartment, suite of rooms, or rooms, shall be limited, to the hours between nine antemeridian and five post-meridian. Access shall not be required on Saturdays, Sundays or legal holidays except in emergencies.
Given the 9 to 5 time may be problematic for you there are plenty of givebacks to the LL that would make him happy. Such as foregoing the written notice and allowing access, say between 6 and 7 evenings. Or make him really happy and give him a open house on a weekend at your convenience.

whynot_31 · August 2010

Tell them you will waive the "reasonable" requirement in exchange for a reasonable amount of $ for doggy day care or a dog walker?

sluggo · August 2010

I'm looking for an apartment now and none of the RE skanks do "impromptu," even for empty places, so these guys claiming they only do that kind of appointment is weird and seems an impossible way to run things. What, they only get calls from people who say "I must see this apartment NOW?" and they drop everything and run over there?

Also, although I'm not a lawyer, I wouldn't mess around with waivers for dog bites. Pretty certain you wouldn't win with that, and anyway, if they do bite someone, it's still a catastrophe for everyone, dogs included, even if you were protected legally. So all the more reason to stand firm that no one can be present with your dogs if you are not there, and make it clear that that policy is for the safety of visitors.

I agree, let the landlord pay for doggy day care maybe two or three days a week. He can cram as many appointments into those days as he wants. Then there are evenings and weekends to show as well, which is when most people look, anyway.

noisyjulianne · August 2010

Sounds crazy to me that they would demand that you allow access anytime. You've paid your rent. You live there. It's your place until you move out.

Let them figure out how to get you enough notice.

Sucks that they're so aggressive to the point of yelling. That's not cool.

toadette · August 2010

I will say that I dealt with a few brokers who did the impromptu thing. I'd express interest in one apartment listing and they'd show me that one, ask some questions, and show me a few more.

I also will chime in and say that I let the broker of my old apartment show at will, but he also expressed to me that he was comfortable with dogs. I gave him a list of things to do (commands he can give my dog, where the treats are if he needs to distract her, etc.). But I only allowed him in because I felt that he was a nice enough guy and I didn't view it much differently from having a substitute dog walker come in for a day. The OP's broker did say he's pet friendly. Maybe invite him over and see how he is in person with the dogs and decide whether you'll let him show at will based on that.

Might also be to your advantage to be seen as a "good" tenant at this point when LL will be considering your security deposit refund... I dunno what type of guy he is but I can imagine one might notice more "damage" in the apartment of a tenant he's mad at...

opossumqueen · August 2010

Focus on the safety issue with them. My dog typically loves people, but has a strong reaction to people who are scared of or don't like dogs. He also makes some kind of creepy, possibly scary sounds, when he's excited about people coming in and I would fear that someone who doesn't know dogs might get freaked out and react badly (kicking, hitting, etc.) to those noises. I totally get not wanting just anyone to be walking into your house with your pups.

Too bad they don't want to give you a few hours notice. Hopefully you'll get through the few days left before you leave without few or no showings.

urbancowgirl · August 2010

Hi, sorry to disappear guys. I stopped getting the notifications (must have missed one of those emails you have to click through).

Thanks for all of your responses. I really feel like I could have handled this much more easily had the landlord/broker (who, in fairness, is only doing exactly what the landlord tells him to do) been willing to compromise or even listen to us at all. All we wanted was a little notice if they were coming during the weekday so one of us could be home. He's very irrational in that he refuses to hear anything you're saying. For example, he once called on a Sunday when we were 800 miles away demanding that we let his 'appraiser' into the apartment RIGHT THAT MOMENT (landlord apparently doesn't have a key and I wouldn't be surprised if he'd never even seen the apartment). When we tried for fifteen minutes to explain to him that we couldn't do it RIGHT AT THAT MOMENT because, you know, we were 800 miles away, his only response was just "that is not acceptable. that does not work for me. the appraiser is at the building right now. that is not acceptable." Over and over again. I've honestly never dealt with a landlord like this.

Interestingly, we haven't heard from him since Friday. I took bits and pieces of your advice and left him a nice voicemail Friday evening stating that we were happy to show the apartment for them on Saturday and that they could show it at any time on Sunday. We also used the 24 hour reasonable notice thing and added a little spice..."and, as we mentioned, we are happy to allow you to show the apartment during the week if you give us notice of the appointment ahead of time. We've spoken with our real estate attorney who advised that 24 hours notice is required, but as long as you can let us know the night before what time you're coming we'll make sure to be home."

So...yeah, I christened Modsquad a real estate attorney, and I totally forgot that I'm currently working with a real estate attorney to buy my next place so I threw that in for good measure. Thankfully, we just got notice this morning that we're clear to close on Wednesday so we can get the HELLZ up out of there soon.

Am I being unreasonable here? (also, apt rant)...

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