Police Activity at Bodega on Lincoln and Franklin
Comments
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photogirl wrote: Does their sale of illegal cigarettes have a connection to the violence? If they were busted for that, or if that was the basis for a civil claim against them, is there any reason to think that this would reduce the violence on these corners. I am asking these questions because legally the owners of these properties do have a responsibility to the neighborhood and could be held liable for fostering an unsafe situation or failing to address one that they know about. But there needs to be a real connection between their conduct and the violence; not just that their location has been chosen by those committing the violence.
The main connection betw. the bodegas and the criminals is that they're both working 24 hrs a day. Sure the bodega gets plenty of dollars from regular schmoes going to and fro from work or the subway or a night out at Franklin park etc - but there every single day and night - buying cigs, eggs and cheeses, beers, soda, candy, rolling papers, etc. - are the shitload of local dealers and their cronies. The relationship quickly becomes symbiotic.
Even the most innocent and law-abiding naif of a new bodega owner will soon learn that these seemingly unemployed young men account for a large percentage of their revenue and will tolerate a lot of hanging out nearby (w/ it's associated dealing) - the occasional shooting or stabbing outside their stores with it's attendant police activity and questions is just an occupational hazard.
24hr police presence and Skywatch, etc. help to move the riff-raff to a less "hot" block - but this problem of dealing and its resulting violence won't go away until the spots where the dealers deal change hands.
Perhaps mandatory video cameras on every store front - which the police would regularly review for any evidence of criminal activity - would help. But such a law would be offensive to a lot of people who value civil liberties. -
I agree with Boogieknight.
...and add that the stores will slowly change as the neighborhood changes.
I guess I'm lobbying for the opposite approach:
I think that avoiding a gross store will not cause them to change. ....it is not like they are dependent on -um- "customers concerned with quality".
Instead, I would let them know how much money they could be earning if they improved their store. ....they could also work fewer hours.
....and perhaps avoid mutiple visits from DOH and other agencies re: the health violations, alcohol sales to minors and untaxed cigarettes.
Please view the great transformation of the "DisAssociated" on Underhill and St. John's. It has gone from a store that primarily served people hanging out in front at all hours, to one that now serves folks who primarily shop during the day, and seems to prefer fresh fruits to untaxed cigarettes. It now closes at 10, is used to close much, much later (if at all).
http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=686290&sid=66cd12947f2bfb01ec16a13cece7308d -
Here is a PDF of the current 801 Franklin/Shorey's Lease
The owner (if she cares) might have a cause of action under section 4. But from the lease it sounds like she wants no part and is trying to get rid of the building. The Californians have a 650K purchase option that they can exercise anytime after 3/31/2012. It resets to a 750k strike price on 3/31/2017(see section 31).
Them's the facts. Here's my take:
The Californians' spread is already locked in and they have little incentive to micromanage a shift from cigarettes to fruit from way out on the west coast.
Best case scenario: real estate is recovers a bit in the next 18 months, they exercise the option in March 2012 and try to flip it quickly. New owner.
Worst, more shootings and continued DOB violations make the spread on 650K unattractive despite real estate market. They sit on their option until 2017.
For the litigious, the owner is well indemnified (see section 14).
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Edit: wrong year for the exercise date. a bit of over-optimism on my part. sry
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so, forget the California owners and hit the present tenants where it hurts:
Have "concerned mothers" call the authorities and state that their innocent 18 year olds are being corrupted by the bodega's sales to minors. They might send an inspector to make a buy and bust.
http://www.abc.state.ny.us/handbook-for-retail-licenses
and/or the bring the matter of the untaxed cigarettes to the attention of our tax starved city. They might send an inspector to look for tax stamps, then levy a fine.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/services/services_fraud_cigarettes.shtml
Assuming they actually prepare food (like sandwiches), you can also contact the DOH about any unhealthful conditions and rodent/insect infestations that pose a hazard to public health. The tenants end up in a sitution where they have to prove the inspector didn't see a roach (good luck!)
http://home2.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/rii/inspection.shtml
....by doing some or all of these things, you can leave the job of passing out flyers to folks running for office. -
Perhaps mandatory video cameras on every store front - which the police would regularly review for any evidence of criminal activity - would help.
THISBut such a law would be offensive to a lot of people who value civil liberties.
these people should analyze the situation...then shut the fuck up. -
mr. met wrote:
ah, but we already have silly Skywatch. ....the police arguably get a constant video feed. Yet (at best) the activity moves to another block, and (at worst) the thing simply provides shade to those dealing, or something decorate with a Sharpie.Perhaps mandatory video cameras on every store front - which the police would regularly review for any evidence of criminal activity - would help.
THISBut such a law would be offensive to a lot of people who value civil liberties.
these people should analyze the situation...then shut the fuck up.
For better or worse.... We are not Singapore. We lack cameras; they don't. We listen to our civil libertarians; they don't. We lack enforcement; they don't. We have large marginalized populations; they don't. yada yada yada -
Subject: S.O.S. Crown Heights Shooting Response THIS WEDNESDAY
FOUR PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SHOT ON THE CORNER OF FRANKLIN AVE. & LINCOLN PL. THIS YEAR. The latest victim was shot on August 7th at 3:30am.
A shooting response is a peaceful community gathering where a shooting incident took place. The purpose of the response is to express our concern and make a statement that killing is not acceptable in our community.
NEXT RESPONSE
Location: Lincoln Place & Franklin Avenue
Time: 6:30 PM
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 -
The transformation of the bodega on Underhill and St.Johns is an interesting case. It changed after the construction of the Richard Meier building began and cops were stationed on that corner almost 24 hours a day for an entire summer. (And as far as I know, there was never a shooting there; whereas we've had three in four months!) If the apartment building on Franklin and Eastern Parkway gets built, it probably will help to change those corners. But, it seems that the change on Underhill and St. Johns occurred equally because the police targeted that corner and were a relentless presence. Seems to me that we ought to be pushing our local politicians, the police, and all relevant city agencies to target these corners and these businesses. This Impact Zone thing is fine, but these corners seem to be 90% of the problem. Any suggestions about how to get this organized? Tish James was very helpful with "Steve;" perhaps we ought to see if she has any suggestions.
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(there were many shootings on Underhill and St johns between 2003 and 2006).
The neighborhood changed. Among other items, the building across the street got a new owner (Alma ...same as the hospital bldgs) and upped it's rents.
I'd sit down with CH assn and SOS, and brain storm. ....yup, involve Tish too
for extra points have the owners of St Johns Marketplace explain how life got better once they made the leap. "I did it and you can too" -
NY ain’t the same, it’s OT playa/ You can go and cop coke from the corner bodega.
–50 Cent, “Corner Bodega”
Isn't this what you all are talking about? Drug dealing done directly out of CH's bodegas. Not illegal cigarettes. Personally, I'm not comfortable referring to specific sites.
Sure, a transformation from dingy bodega to wholesome corner store selling $5 packages of gluten-free cookies may have worked on St. John's, but I'm sure the owners consciously choose to take advantage of the area's rampant gentrification. This solution may work when you have hordes of economically-privileged folks moving into an area. Perhaps, there are already enough of these folks moving into the Franklin Ave. area now that all the bodegas can happily convert, but I suspect that a lot are still holding onto their old business model for economic reasons. (Conversion takes investment dollars, for example.)
Given that, what are some workable solutions? A boycott sounds good to me, except that I suspect most of their profits come from dealing. Probably, the community is going to have to wait for the cops to move on these fronts, just like what happened on Nostrand in April. Maybe whynot is right that it makes sense to move tax funds into making cases against bodegas owners and away from the Impact Zones. I'm not police, though, so I can't say with any authority. -
It was alot worse back in the 80s and 90s. We need the national guard to be stationed on all the corners with shoot to kill orders!! That's the only solution. Every thing else is a joke.
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Btw the corner stores are not the problem. It's the police and their neglect policy. Over the years they did nothing. They still don't do nothing. And the result is nothing.
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Everyone seems to agree that it takes a combination of market forces ( which we can't do much about except by boycotting these stores and supporting businesses on Franklin that have a positive impact), and police pressure--which maybe we can do something about. I like Whynot's suggestion of sitting down with CHA, SOS, Tish James, Eric Adams, and maybe the new precinct captain. And maybe there is some way to get the media interested in this--that seemed to get the ball rolling on Steve. Nothing like a little media attention to embarrass the cops into taking action. Maybe there are a lot of corners in NYC in the middle of an Impact Zone that have been the site for three shootings in four months, but I doubt it (and let's hope not). Seems like that angle would be of interest, i.e., is this the best way to spend tax dollars and protect NYers? Anybody with media contacts that might be interested in this?
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spnder wrote: [quote=photogirl]But, could someone explain to me exactly what the connection is between the violence and the bodegas. What exactly is the conduct of the bodega owners or workers that fosters the violence? Do they have an argument that they too are just victims of drug dealers who have chosen their corners? What proof is there that they are involved in it and what exactly is their involvement?
I'd like to hear more about this too.
The main connection I have seen is first money. The bodegas take welfare cards and convert them into cash directly or allow people in the know to buy alcohol and smokes with their own or somebody else's welfare/benefits card. It also gives them a place to park open container or beer or other alcohol right near the front of the store..they walk in take a sip or 2 two and head back out to work. There is also 3 or 4 women or all sizes that are selling something inside of cars or near the dumpster and then taking the cash to buy something from the drug dealers on Lincoln and Franklin. People are also able to get joints and loosies fired up by the clerks of the delis as a courtesy.why light up outdoors when you can do it inside and avoid the cost of a lighter and wind. The ability for teens and preteens to walk in and buy beer and tobacco products is also a huge benefit to area residents, why should a welfare mom be burdened with an in person purchase when 1 of her kids can do it for her...If Dutch Boy or Franklin Park took welfare cards the place would be crawling with people trying to redeem the card for a cocktail or 2..as of yet the card's status as legal tender for anything you want only applies at the delis. -
There is also 3 or 4 women or all sizes that are selling something inside of cars or near the dumpster and then taking the cash to buy something from the drug dealers on Lincoln and Franklin.
This may be easier to address than you think. It is often much easier for the police to document charges against a car, and incarcerate it, than it is for them to do the same thing to a person. When a person is found to be doing illegal activities, they often get out of jail quickly. ....cars, on the otherhand, often end up impounded and then sold at auction.
So, get the car convicted. Take a picture of the car. Record it's license plate. Record the type of activities it is engaging in. ...pass this information on to the police.
If you are able to get the police involved they can cite it for not having a invalid registration, for having a broken tail light, for being parked in a no parking zone, etc.
...sometimes they get extra "presents" inside the car:
* The always nearby, but often elusive, handgun.
* The stash that supplies the dealers so they are are always carrying less than dealer weight, etc.
Even the Newbies stuck working Impact have the skills to do this. [there is no need to have a precious Detective work inconvenient hours on a silly drug case].
....this is about creativity.
Although some may feel that the "Battle of Underhill and St. John's" was an easy win, others remember years of struggle:
a. Black tar was cleverly placed on a cable box where the kids sat and drank 40s all night.
b. The owners of the store were convinced that their business was dropping off as the neighborhood changed, and people came into the store and purposely asked for high profit items they did not carry ...then left without buying anything.
c. Permits to the St John's "block parties" that ended at 2 AM (occasionally in gun fire and/or murder) were finally denied when they were shown to actually be concerts promoted throughout Brooklyn.
d. Locals called the police over and over on people hanging out drinking and selling drugs.
e. etc, etc.
.....Franklin Avenue has the same amount of work ahead of it. The transformation will not be quick or easy.
P.S. I took the pictures of the store on St. John's because the transformation was so stark ....needless to say, a store could undergo a smaller transformation and still reflect its changing neighborhood. It could merely stock Minute Maid OJ, as opposed to Sunny Delight. -
Has anyone thought about approaching our representatives to change the laws regarding EBT cards? A useful change in policy would be something along the lines of bodegas not being allowed to accept EBT cards if a full service grocery store is within a certain distance (say 1/4 of a mile) of the bodega in question. On Franklin we already have 3 full service gorcery stores (Associated @ Carroll; Pioneer @ Union; Tony's place @ Lincoln). These stores have technology in place that automatically differentiate between EBT eligible purchases and if I'm not mistaken, they do not sell smokes, beer, or any other substances that contribute to "vice". I think exemptions could be provided for stores like Yoon's and that place at St. Johns.
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Ishtar wrote: Has anyone thought about approaching our representatives to change the laws regarding EBT cards? A useful change in policy would be something along the lines of bodegas not being allowed to accept EBT cards if a full service grocery store is within a certain distance (say 1/4 of a mile) of the bodega in question. On Franklin we already have 3 full service gorcery stores (Associated @ Carroll; Pioneer @ Union; Tony's place @ Lincoln). These stores have technology in place that automatically differentiate between EBT eligible purchases and if I'm not mistaken, they do not sell smokes, beer, or any other substances that contribute to "vice". I think exemptions could be provided for stores like Yoon's and that place at St. Johns.
this would take too long. Bodega's have lobbyists that would prevent this from occuring. ....besides, many Bodega's provide a convenient 24 hours service that grocery stores do not. ....not all of them are scummy. Most are even assets to the community. -
whynot_31 wrote: this would take too long.
If people really want sustained change, work has to be done on multiple fronts and that includes changes in public policy. Bodegas do NOT need to accept EBT cards if they do not have the proper technology in place to prevent illegal purchases like grocery stores do. -
Ishtar wrote: [quote=whynot_31]this would take too long.
If people really want sustained change, work has to be done on multiple fronts and that includes changes in public policy. Bodegas do NOT need to accept EBT cards if they do not have the proper technology in place to prevent illegal purchases like grocery stores do.
Good luck.
The present effort by HRA and the nonprofits of NYC is to get as many people on Food Stamps as possible, because it is federal money.
....this involves convincing more stores to accept the benefits, so the recipients will see it as worth their while. .
Please realize that most people are not selling their benefits for drugs and cigarettes, but -yes- there are some really visible ones who do. And really visible stores that make it happen. (as long as there are benefits to be sold, there will be people buying them and selling them).
....but NYC does go after the fraudalent stores pretty regularly. The feds get annoyed when they don't.....
It usually isn't a question of technology: "I'll ring you up for $15 in food, but give you $10 worth of cigarettes. ....and we'll call it even ok?" -
Well, I'm all out of ideas and have nothing else useful to add or contribute. I'll go about my business.
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There seems to be a focus in this thread on detailing unsavory behaviors of area residents that are loosely connected to our bodegas, but have nothing to do with the spurts of occasional violence in our neighborhood. The violence is directly related to the dealing of illegal drugs, some of which happens out of our bodegas.
The interest on the thread in the sale of legal drugs - cigarettes & alcohol - does raise another issue: what a different result regulation of intoxicating substances brings. While people's behavior in pursuit of their addictive substance of choice may be bothersome, sales of cigarettes and alcohol doesn't lead to dead kids.
Maybe the solution is to legalize all drugs. -
krowonhill wrote:
The criminalization of drugs certainly contributes to high prices, poor quality drugs, turf wars, robberies of users and sellers, and an incredible use of resources that could be used elsewhere.
Maybe the solution is to legalize all drugs.
....granted, drugs wouldn't be "good for you" if they were legal, but I have to agree: The present drug war is complete madness.
Like all misguided wars, we are bothered less when they are fought elsewhere -preferably overseas-.
But I imagine most folks would be satisfied if the "battleground" simply moved more than 10 blocks from away from where they lived. (merely moving the battlefront would also take much less long than it would to end the war on drugs....)
....yes, it puts us in the position of fighting for own interests, while not being sure whether we are advancing the overall good. (how's that for amateur philosophy?)
Enjoy the ride. -
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I don't think de-criminalizing recreational drugs would solve the problem. I don't think making marijuana or crack legal would lessen the animus for others which accompanies belong to a gang. If selling weed or crack or heroin becomes less profitable, then I have no doubt that someone would come up with something else to sell. Shall we make crystal-meth legal as well? And when that becomes legal, how about glue sniffing?
The problem is the result of the lack of industry. And by 'industry' here I mean the lack of jobs in our society by those who want them, and the moral lacking of those who don't want them. -
so, we have several ideas:
1. Legalize drugs. (krowonhill, wonderchimp, whynot)
2. Change our economy so everyone that wants a job can get one. (MHA, Karl Marx)
3. Change people's world view and circumstances so they want jobs
and/or they subscribe to the Puritan Work Ethic ...I'm told it's a
magazine that must be subscribed to. It isn't available at newstands. (everyone).
4. In the interim, address none of the above because they are too
time consuming, and simply move the battle to an area that is not
on our way to the subway. (whynot) -
Now THAT is a humor homerun Whynot_31. ::)):
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Subject: Save Our Streets Crown Heights
DON'T FORGET: SHOOTING RESPONSE TONIGHT AT 6:30 PM.
Location: Lincoln Place & Franklin Avenue
A shooting response is a peaceful community gathering where a shooting incident took place. The purpose of the response is to express our concern and make a statement that killing is not acceptable in our community. -
Subject: Re: Save Our Streets Crown Heights
Mr. Henry wrote: DON'T FORGET: SHOOTING RESPONSE TONIGHT AT 6:30 PM.
In that deli you should also let them know that allowing drug dealers to use the bathroom or allowing drug dealers to sit inside when the weather is bad is also unacceptable. Yes I understand that the relationship has benefits..yes they are not robbed every other day. I also understand that the deli makes money when the welfare cards are redeemed. I also understand that selling packs of smokes from Maryland and Virginia are very profitable especially when sold as a loosie..when a pack of 20 is costing you less than 5 the mark up is impressive and hard to ignore. tell the guy that the same people who demand welfare fraud,count stacks of money inside their store and need tobacco products to roll weed are the people that are doing the shooting. The deli across the street that is dispensing beer, bag and a straw for a buck to be instantly consumed and the litter to be discarded on the surrounding streets are creating a bad mix. If it were a hardware store there would be cement dust and nails laying all over the area right outside. Just gotta to tidy up on the sloppy drug dealing. drug consuming vessels of shit that they cater to..
Location: Lincoln Place & Franklin Avenue
A shooting response is a peaceful community gathering where a shooting incident took place. The purpose of the response is to express our concern and make a statement that killing is not acceptable in our community. -
Subject: Re: Save Our Streets Crown Heights
Mr. Henry wrote: DON'T FORGET: SHOOTING RESPONSE TONIGHT AT 6:30 PM.
The SOS folks stated tonight that there have been 4 shootings on this corner in the last 2 months alone.....
Location: Lincoln Place & Franklin Avenue
A shooting response is a peaceful community gathering where a shooting incident took place. The purpose of the response is to express our concern and make a statement that killing is not acceptable in our community.
Getting folks to come out for such a depressing, somewhat scary event is hard work. I am pleased to report today's event had about 30 people of various ethnicities, ages and genders.
Change comes slowly. It is rarely linear. Good seeing everyone, even the always present, idle men across the street.
How to close down a Bodega/Drug Den in 8 not-at-all-easy steps:
1. Call the police re: the dealing and the car activities. Give lots of details.
2. Call the DOH Re: the food storage, mice, etc.
3. Call the NYS Liquor Authority re: the consumption on premises, and sales to underage people.
4. Call the finance folks re: the untaxed cigarettes http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/services/services_fraud_cigarettes.shtml
5. Call 311 re: the food stamp fraud.
http://www.nyc.gov/apps/311/allServices.htm?requestType=service&levelOneId=37683836-06A7-11DE-AC9C-EF5AFBC474DE&levelTwoId=37683836-06A7-11DE-AC9C-EF5AFBC474DE-1&serviceName=Public+Assistance,+Medicaid,+or+Food+Stamp+Fraud&finalSubLevel=2&intentId=E9E66310-8137-11DE-8E9F-96DAE110FEB8
6. Repeat steps 1- 5.
7. Have your friend call all of the above numbers.
8. Be patient. -
Who owns those two buildings where those two slum stores are located? Aren't the building owners the real culprits here?
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