This site is closed to new comments and posts.

Notice: This site uses cookies to function.
If you are not comfortable with cookies then please don't browse this website.

. Reid my lips: the Downtown mosque - Page 3 — Brooklynian

. Reid my lips: the Downtown mosque

13567…11

Comments

  • whyfi
    whyfi
    ^^^ that's an answer? Okay.
  • boygabriel
    boygabriel
    That's really weak Hamilton. If you're going to have an opinion at least defend it.
  • hamilton
    hamilton
    .

    there's one thing lamer then weak and that's lazy.


    i gave an opinion on aug 18 @ 1:08 pm or was that to far back to go.
  • whyfi
    whyfi
    Hamilton wrote: .

    there's one thing lamer then weak and that's lazy.


    i gave an opinion on aug 18 @ 1:08 pm or was that to far back to go.
    Hamilton wrote: .


    I think a bit of the irrational and degrading mind set for a few is probably based on a few insignificant incidents:

    the1993 bombing of the world trade center
    the uss cole
    the beirut bombing
    hate speeches and funds raised for terrorist by omar abdel rahman at the al faroog mosque on atlantic ave.

    again ,people are requesting the mosque be built in another spot, it's that simple.

    and my gut feeling if el gamal gets a better deal he'll build it somewhere else.
    ^^^ that's an opinion? Okay.
  • carnivore
    carnivore
    Yeah, that "opinion" has no relevance to this cultural center except insofar as bigots against Islam draw a connection.
  • hamilton
    hamilton
    Carnivore wrote: Yeah, that "opinion" has no relevance to this cultural center except insofar as bigots against Islam draw a connection.

    .

    YOU of all people have some nerve calling anyone a bigot after posting that cartoonish video of a black man eating popcorn on the Reid My Lips thread.

    I guess the theory that bigots are the last ones to realize they are bigots, is true.
  • carnivore
    carnivore
    Hamilton wrote: [quote=Carnivore]Yeah, that "opinion" has no relevance to this cultural center except insofar as bigots against Islam draw a connection.

    .

    YOU of all people have some nerve calling anyone a bigot after posting that cartoonish video of a black man eating popcorn on the Reid My Lips thread.

    I guess the theory that bigots are the last ones to realize they are bigots, is true.
    :roll:

    Seriously? "I know you are but what am I?" is the best you can do? Is this Karl Rove?

    Unless you'd care to elaborate on how any of things you've listed have ANYTHING to do with the cultural center being planned.
  • hamilton
    hamilton
    Hamilton wrote: [quote=Carnivore]Yeah, that "opinion" has no relevance to this cultural center except insofar as bigots against Islam draw a connection.

    .

    YOU of all people have some nerve calling anyone a bigot after posting that cartoonish video of a black man eating popcorn on the Reid My Lips thread.

    I guess the theory that bigots are the last ones to realize they are bigots, is true.
    :roll:

    Seriously? "I know you are but what am

    I?"
    _________________________________

    .

    now your quoting Pee Wee Herman, lol .

    not to put you in overdrive but i and over 65% of americans polled , yes i did say americans , feel it should be built somewhere other then the proposed site.
  • carnivore
    carnivore
    Hamilton wrote: now your quoting Pee Wee Herman, lol .

    not to put you in overdrive but i and over 65% of americans polled , yes i did say americans, feel it should be built somewhere other then the proposed site.
    Yes, I was quoting Pee Wee Herman in paraphrasing your statement. And now you're reiterating what you said before while continuing to refuse to explain how your list justifies that opinion other than by blaming all Muslims for those actions.

    Also, you're misrepresenting the poll. People actually break down into 3 equal groups:
    * about 1/3 of Americans have no objection to the cultural center being built there
    * about 1/3 of Americans would prefer it not be built there but recognize the right of the sponsors to build it there
    * about 1/3 of Americans do not want it built there and do not think the sponsors have the right to build it there

    So although it's true that over 65% would rather it not be built there, over 65% also agree the that the sponsors have every right to build it there.
  • sweet tea
    sweet tea
    and the other thing is that democracy doesn't mean that the majority gets to decide on the rights of the minority. that's called tyranny. we have a constitution for a reason. it wouldn't matter if 99% of americans didn't want it built there. that's not how rights work in our system.

    (an idea i wish marriage equality opponents would drum into their thick skulls.)

    i wonder what percent would oppose the plan if certain "news" organizations weren't so dead-set on misleading the public about what park51 would be.
  • em26
    em26
    Why the fuck do people call it the Ground zero Mosque?? Ground zero is where the towers once stood, that's ground zero. Two blocks AWAY is NOT ground zero.

    I think the cultural center should be built as originally planned.
  • boygabriel
    boygabriel
    I guess it's not really surprising Hamilton can't explain his position other than 'some victim families illogically associate 9/11 with all Muslims.'

    I haven't read a decent justification here or anywhere else.
  • hamilton
    hamilton
    carnivor

    the list you referred to was a response to boygabriels post of Aug 18 @ 12:52 .
    which highlighted incidents that has caused concerns for many and did not state that all muslims are radical.

    but i guess that doesn't fit your agenda of labeling anyone who has a concern or wishes the center be built elsewhere as a bigot.

    now you can go back to your popcorn.
  • hamilton
    hamilton
    Carnivore wrote: [quote=Hamilton]now your quoting Pee Wee Herman, lol .

    not to put you in overdrive but i and over 65% of americans polled , yes i did say americans, feel it should be built somewhere other then the proposed site.
    Yes, I was quoting Pee Wee Herman in paraphrasing your statement. And now you're reiterating what you said before while continuing to refuse to explain how your list justifies that opinion other than by blaming all Muslims for those actions.

    Also, you're misrepresenting the poll. People actually break down into 3 equal groups:
    * about 1/3 of Americans have no objection to the cultural center being built there
    * about 1/3 of Americans would prefer it not be built there but recognize the right of the sponsors to build it there
    * about 1/3 of Americans do not want it built there and do not think the sponsors have the right to build it there

    So although it's true that over 65% would rather it not be built there, over 65% also agree the that the sponsors have every right to build it there.

    .

    so , my statement that 65% polled would rather have it built elsewhere was true and not a misrepresentation as you stated.
    just another long winded response that went nowhere.
  • carnivore
    carnivore
    Hamilton wrote: carnivor

    the list you referred to was a response to boygabriels post of Aug 18 @ 12:52 .
    which highlighted incidents that has caused concerns for many and did not state that all muslims are radical.

    but i guess that doesn't fit your agenda of labeling anyone who has a concern or wishes the center be built elsewhere as a bigot.
    But you don't make clear HOW those incidents "cause concerns" for anyone. They have nothing to do with the center or the people building it. You're just using them to smear a group of people.
  • carnivore
    carnivore
    Hamilton wrote: so , my statement that 65% polled would rather have it built elsewhere was true and not a misrepresentation as you stated.
    just another long winded response that went nowhere.
    No, it was a misrepresentation because it ignores the fact that the same poll showed that the vast majority of Americans think they should be allowed to build the center there.

    Not to mention sweet tea's point that our Constitution protects their right to build it there regardless of who opposes it.
  • whyfi
    whyfi
    90% of americans, yes I did say americans, walk around Manhattan looking up at the buildings with slack jaws because they previously had no idea of how radically different space considerations are in one of the most dense cities in the world. In that light, yes, I can see many Americans being erroneously led to believe that 600 ft from the nearest corner of Ground Zero is somehow insensitively on top of Ground Zero.
  • boygabriel
    boygabriel
    lol @ "caused concerns"

    Those incidents helped feed more irrational, illogical and unfair blame for terrorist acts on all Muslims.

    Hamilton wrote: carnivor

    the list you referred to was a response to boygabriels post of Aug 18 @ 12:52 .
    which highlighted incidents that has caused concerns for many and did not state that all muslims are radical.

    but i guess that doesn't fit your agenda of labeling anyone who has a concern or wishes the center be built elsewhere as a bigot.

    now you can go back to your popcorn.
  • whyfi
    whyfi
    Anyone else notice how some people are still avoiding clearly stating their opinion on the matter by playing the "some people are offended by..." game?
  • hamilton
    hamilton
    Boygabriel wrote: I guess it's not really surprising Hamilton can't explain his position other than 'some victim families illogically associate 9/11 with all Muslims.'

    I haven't read a decent justification here or anywhere else.

    .

    nice try, read your 8/18 @ 12:52 post where you state
    " families are offended out of their irrational association of moderate muslims and al queada"

    you wrote it, you own it.

    as far as my opinion , i feel it's an act of arrogance and a total indifference to the emotional distress suffered by the families of those who were killed on 911
  • whyfi
    whyfi
    Hamilton wrote: as far as my opinion , i feel it's an act of arrogance and a total indifference to the emotional distress suffered by the families of those who were killed on 911
    Great, now support it - why?
  • boygabriel
    boygabriel
    Hamilton wrote: you wrote it, you own it.
    Gladly. You're the one who is saying that emotional distress should be cause for Muslims to keep their community centers out of the Financial District (or whatever euphemism your side of the debate is using). I was just putting it in my terms.
    Hamilton wrote: as far as my opinion , i feel it's an act of arrogance and a total indifference to the emotional distress suffered by the families of those who were killed on 911
    Yup. There it is.

    I am completely sympathetic to those who lost loved ones, including friends of mine who did, or who had to spend that awful morning trapped in a building a few blocks away, watching people jump to their deaths. But that doesn't justify or rationalize forcing a community center to move based solely on its religion and no other tangible or direct connection whatsoever.

    At the core of the victim families' logic is "I associate all Muslims with 9/11." That's fine if that's what's going on in their head & their personal emotions. Your thoughts are yours.

    Where it's not ok is when one forces all Muslims out of the Financial District whether by law, by political pressure, or by an unjustified appeal to "what's right" © half-term governor Sarah Palin.
  • whyfi
    whyfi
    Boygabriel wrote: Where it's not ok is when one forces all Muslims out of the Financial District whether by law, by political pressure, or by an unjustified appeal to "what's right" © half-term governor Sarah Palin.
    Right - as stated above, even if the majority of Americans actually oppose the project, the organizers have the right to built it.

    Likewise, even if the majority of the 9/11 Victims are opposed to the project, the organizers have the right to built it.

    It seems some 9/11 Victims are tired of having the project opposed in their name. Clearly, some have done the serious work that folks like Stacey and Whynot describe.

    http://www.silive.com/newsflash/index.ssf/story/911-families-others-rally-in-favor-of/5d22f1c9ed5d4e61a3981dcbee646300
  • hamilton
    hamilton
    Carnivore wrote: [quote=Hamilton]carnivor

    the list you referred to was a response to boygabriels post of Aug 18 @ 12:52 .
    which highlighted incidents that has caused concerns for many and did not state that all muslims are radical.

    but i guess that doesn't fit your agenda of labeling anyone who has a concern or wishes the center be built elsewhere as a bigot.
    But you don't make clear HOW those incidents "cause concerns" for anyone. They have nothing to do with the center or the people building it. You're just using them to smear a group of people.

    .

    yeah, how silly of me to think the bombings of the Trade Center in '93 and 9/11,along with the U.S. Cole , Beruit base and hate speeches at the Faroog Mosques would cause concerns.

    a concern is not a smear, but again you think that anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion on the center is a bigot.
    so rant on.
  • carnivore
    carnivore
    Hamilton wrote: yeah, how silly of me to think the bombings of the Trade Center in '93 and 9/11,along with the U.S. Cole , Beruit base and hate speeches at the Faroog Mosques would cause concerns.

    a concern is not a smear, but again you think that anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion on the center is a bigot.
    so rant on.
    A "concern" without a rational underpinning is bigotry. You have either refused to or been unable to articulate why those events should cause "concern" about a completely unrelated group of people who happen to adhere to the same religion.
  • whyfi
    whyfi
    Hamilton wrote: yeah, how silly of me to think the bombings of the Trade Center in '93 and 9/11,along with the U.S. Cole , Beruit base and hate speeches at the Faroog Mosques would cause concerns.

    a concern is not a smear, but again you think that anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion on the center is a bigot.
    so rant on.
    So, do you think that it's okay to quash constitutional freedoms because of this "concern"?
  • boygabriel
    boygabriel
    'Concern' is a euphemism that doesn't actually say anything. At the core of it is the unjustified association of terrorism with all Muslims.

    SO:

    That's fine if that's what's going on in their head & their personal emotions. Your thoughts are yours.

    Where it's not ok is when one forces all Muslims out of the Financial District whether by law, by political pressure, or by an unjustified appeal to "what's right" © half-term governor Sarah Palin.
  • hamilton
    hamilton
    I guess attacks on americans by radical muslims ,who vow to destroy american is not clear to you, neither is the fact that i have not blamed moderate muslims for the actions of the radicals hasn't registered in your, anyone that doesn't agree with you is a bigot mindset.
  • boygabriel
    boygabriel
    you're hiding behind your belief that someone thinks you're a bigot instead of actually defending the issue at hand.
  • whyfi
    whyfi
    Hamilton wrote: [snip]i have not blamed moderate muslims for the actions of the radicals[/snip]
    If that's the case, why do you
    Hamilton wrote: [snip]feel it's an act of arrogance and a total indifference to the emotional distress suffered by the families of those who were killed on 911[/snip]
    ?
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In

Categories