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Freedom of speech for all? — Brooklynian

Freedom of speech for all?

whynot_31
whynot_31
edited November -1 in Brooklyn Politics
Regular readers know that I don't support this guy's actions.

For a minute, let's assume the Daily News is correct: The guy was fired because he was deemed to violate the trust put in him by the state of NJ, by destroying a Koran. ....basically, he embarrassed the State, and they fired him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/09/14/2010-09-14_koran_burner_derek_fenton_fired_from_his_job_at_nj_transit.html

Now for commentary....

Really?

As a state employee, who is off duty and not in uniform, he doesn't have such rights?

Did he at any point claim that he was acting on behalf of his employer?

....did he have a long record of being a loser employee, and was he fired for that?

If NJ Transit doesn't have a history of firing every employee who ever spoke on TV or made a public statement on private time, they need a really good attorney.

What a mess.... This guy will become a hero in the eyes of some as a result of his actions.

At first glance, it appears the ACLU (or some other civil liberties group) should come in and kick NJ Transit's butt.

Comments

  • jimmy
    jimmy

    Subject: Re: Freedom of speech for all?

    And he'll sue, and win, and the taxpayers will be on the hook for his payoff. Nice work, NJ Transit.

    If only they were as quick to fire their employees for sucking at their jobs.
  • jack krohn
    jack krohn
    To me this is cut and dried. Free speech is for all views, even those most find reprehensible. Nat Hentoff's book "Free Speech for Me, But not for Thee" is an interesting account of this topic.
  • xlizellx
    xlizellx
    I don't have that right. As a teacher I can't say or do a lot regardless of being "on duty" or not.

    Teachers in the south have gotten fired for posting a photo online of them on SUMMER VACATION while they were in Europe drinking ONE glass of wine at the age of 30-something. It was deemed wrong to have a picture around showing them drinking -- regardless of it being legal, while on vacation time, and she was totally sober -- she was fired.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    One's rights in these circumstances are often defined by how consistently their employer enforces the contracts. The employers rarely have to list the offensive acts, they can just lay out broad terms that the jury will interpret in their favor.

    ...many municipal employees have "Uphold our reputation" clauses in their contracts

    In the case of the teacher in the south, if that school district could show that it consistently interpreted such acts as being against the contract, it will be able to fire the teacher without being successfully sued.

    ....Some lawyer (or a team of lawyers...) will soon see if NJ Transit has been similarly consistent, and closely examine the contract to see if "burning a Koran at a WTC protest" would be deemed in violation by a typical NJ jury.

    The lawyer will have the added "bonus" that he is arguing on behalf of a client who was engaging in freedom of speech/expression.

    ....sadly, the lawyer for the wine sipping teacher in the South probably had no such arguments; It is difficult to argue wine drinking is a protected form of expression, or a political act. It was easier for the school district to argue something to the effect that their reputation, and her ability to be a positive role model for students had been compromised.

    In both cases, a company's history of firing people for petty things, allows a future of firing people for petty things.

    By being consistent, an employer can avoid many lawsuits, and show that it took action on the basis of "character" rather than things other than race, religion, ethnicity, freedom of expression, yada, yada, yada.

    P.S. Xlizellx, You are not in the south. The Board of Ed has likely not been consistent on such issues, and you protect your rights (and those of others) by using them! ....try not to wear the school t-shirt while you are sloshed, and don't yell about what pricks the Dept of Ed is while you are stumbling about, but exercise your right to be a normal person. ...have a glass of wine, and give Time Out NY the picture it desires.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    http://gothamist.com/2010/09/16/koran-burning.php#comments
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    xlizellx wrote: I don't have that right. As a teacher I can't say or do a lot regardless of being "on duty" or not.

    Teachers in the south have gotten fired for posting a photo online of them on SUMMER VACATION while they were in Europe drinking ONE glass of wine at the age of 30-something. It was deemed wrong to have a picture around showing them drinking -- regardless of it being legal, while on vacation time, and she was totally sober -- she was fired.
    NYC's standards for teachers seem to allow wine drinking, but frown upon this:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/09/28/2010-09-28_bronx_hooker_teacher_blabs_on_about_past.html
  • xlizellx
    xlizellx
    Haha yeah. My union rep and I had a heated discussion about it cause the union keeps saying" don't do something foolish" which to me means apparently something different than wine on vacation. I asked how was I to know and he said "don't take a picture that you wouldn't want your grandma to see. Man...he must not know my grandma cause I doubt a beer or five would be an issue.

    I know this is nyc and not a rural bible belt town, but being "on guard" is weird sometimes.
  • eggcream
    eggcream
    Freedom of Speech is dwindling with this administration.The Pastor, who has a right to said speech, was visited by the FBI, denounced by the esteemed President Barack Obama, Petraeus and various world leaders. He lost his insurance policy, his website was shut down and his mortgage has been called in. The esteemed President Barack Obama stands up for the imam and Cordoba House but not this guy? What about the Pastor's first amendment rights barry? Funny also when bibles are destroyed or thrown in piss as art, not a peep is heard. That's Freedom of Expression. But if it's islam, we have to be sensitive.

    How about nutjob Justice Breyer stating the Pastor might not have those 1st amend. rights? I think Catholics should lop off a few heads next time "art" is used on Jesus and or the Bible. Bend over for those religion of peace muslims who will bomb us but not any other religion.

    Youtube removed the video of the guy in NYC since it was in "violation". Some here's favorite Cartoon Network capitulated regarding their South Park show but went ahead and attacked Jesus.
  • whynot_31
    whynot_31
    Actually, I perceive Obama as being pretty wimpy on the whole Park 51 thing.

    I was disappointed.

    ....Bloomberg was the only politician I ended up with much respect for.

    I also saw the whole issue as being incredibly overblown. (C'mon people, its a building....)

    Has it blown over yet?

    ....I'm ready to talk about Killer Bees or Shark Attacks.
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