Murder at Pacific and Utica early Sunday morning 10/3/10
Via Gothamist:
Shooting
1771 Pacific St
Brooklyn, NY
10/3/2010 1:06 a.m.
Via The Post:
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/10/03/2010-10-03_nypd_investigates_murders_of_two_teens_shot_to_death_just_minutes_apart.html#ixzz11LvqJYd4
Carlton Bright, 19, was gunned down about 1 a.m., outside his friend's home on Pacific St. in Crown Heights, cops and relatives said.
His step-father, Donald Oates, 44, said Bright had tried to break up a fight before he was shot in the stomach and killed. Police officials did not immediately reveal a possible motive.
"We know there was a fight earlier on and he was trying to squash it," Oates said. "The fight continued and he kept trying to squash it - and then some kid pulled a gun and shot him in the gut."
Bright's family arrived at the crime scene from their Brooklyn home while his body was still in the street, covered by a sheet and guarded by cops.
The sight was too much for his mother.
"Why won't they let me see him?" she wailed. "Why won't they let me hold him?"
Shooting
1771 Pacific St
Brooklyn, NY
10/3/2010 1:06 a.m.
Via The Post:
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/10/03/2010-10-03_nypd_investigates_murders_of_two_teens_shot_to_death_just_minutes_apart.html#ixzz11LvqJYd4
Carlton Bright, 19, was gunned down about 1 a.m., outside his friend's home on Pacific St. in Crown Heights, cops and relatives said.
His step-father, Donald Oates, 44, said Bright had tried to break up a fight before he was shot in the stomach and killed. Police officials did not immediately reveal a possible motive.
"We know there was a fight earlier on and he was trying to squash it," Oates said. "The fight continued and he kept trying to squash it - and then some kid pulled a gun and shot him in the gut."
Bright's family arrived at the crime scene from their Brooklyn home while his body was still in the street, covered by a sheet and guarded by cops.
The sight was too much for his mother.
"Why won't they let me see him?" she wailed. "Why won't they let me hold him?"
Comments
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so sad.
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yup
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It is sad.
Why is it always shootings? Seriously, something needs to be done here; obviously the threat of jail has no impact. If you get caught shooting someone with an illegal/unlicensed gun, there should be a drastic punishment, like you should lose your hand. After awhile it would be a real deterrent. -
Would it still be so sad if you knew that just hours earlier he had smashed somebody over the head with a hammer?
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What kind of question is that, ParadeRest?
Are you suggesting that happened, or are you just being insensitively snarky? -
booklaw wrote: What kind of question is that, ParadeRest?
Ummm, I'm willing to bet that actually happened and as for snarkiness, the Crown Heights forum is too dangerous for that!
Are you suggesting that happened, or are you just being insensitively snarky? -
Briggs wrote: It is sad.
yeahNO
Why is it always shootings? Seriously, something needs to be done here; obviously the threat of jail has no impact. If you get caught shooting someone with an illegal/unlicensed gun, there should be a drastic punishment, like you should lose your hand. After awhile it would be a real deterrent. -
Would it still be so sad if you knew that just hours earlier he had smashed somebody over the head with a hammer?
nope -
ParadeRest wrote: Would it still be so sad if you knew that just hours earlier he had smashed somebody over the head with a hammer?
I think I would still feel sad for the parents.
....perhaps in the same way that I would feel sad for the parents of a guy who killed someone and was then either:
a. Killed by the police because he posed an immediate threat to others.
b. Killled 12 years later by the death penalty (in a state that carries it out) after he had exhausted all his appeals.
c. Incarcerated for life.
In each of the three examples, both sets of parents (the murdered guy's parents as well as parents' of murderer) lose a son as a result of a senseless act.
Now if you are actually asking me a philisophical level question, such as:
Is Street Justice more effective than the type Justice presently available through our court system, and therefore not always a bad outcome? (aka "option d"?)
If the answer to that question turns out to be "yup" then we should either:
1. Empower the police to administer justice as they see fit and get rid of the court and penal system system....
OR
2. Get rid of the police entirely and just let people solve their own differences how they choose.
Both 1 and 2 are lovely options (sarcasm). Martial Law vs Anarchy?
Paraderest,
To answer your question, yes. There are certainly situations I find it very hard to mourn for the person who has been killed. ....these would resemble A-C, and ---in theory-- D.
But even in those scenarios, I can't imagine a scenario in which I don't feel for a family (such as this one) that is horrified upon learning of the death of their son..... -
Briggs wrote:
Really? Do you have a better suggestion? "YeahNO" is really a lot of input. I was simply making a point (even if it was extreme). But hey, why discuss alternatives when things are working so well now.
yeahNO -
I'm not sure why I bother reading these threads. I guess I'll be more concerned when random law abiding citizens are gunned down at the same rate as criminals.
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Ishtar wrote: I'm not sure why I bother reading these threads. I guess I'll be more concerned when random law abiding citizens are gunned down at the same rate as criminals.
Which, thankfully, has never happened in NYC.
....not even in the Scary 80's and early 90s period.
Life has risks. You can reduce your risk being shot, but never eliminate it. -
Boygabriel wrote: [quote=Briggs]
Really? Do you have a better suggestion? "YeahNO" is really a lot of input. I was simply making a point (even if it was extreme). But hey, why discuss alternatives when things are working so well now.
yeahNO
Because cutting off people's hands is not what we do in this country, so BoyGabriel's just responding to the reality of your statement- as in, yea no- it ain't gonna happen.
On the one hand, I get that you're 'making a point'- eye for an eye and all- but cutting off people's hands is not an 'alternative.'
If you're going to make real suggestions, maybe they should be more realistic and pragmatic.
Moving on! -
booklaw wrote: What kind of question is that, ParadeRest?
It happened. Oh, and by the way, the guy that got shot and they guy he "hammered" are/were both card carrying members of the local civic organization known as "the bloods."
Are you suggesting that happened, or are you just being insensitively snarky? -
Good to know Paraderest.
BTW, any idea if we are witnessing some internal Blood feud at the moment, or "struggle for control"?
....or are you "simply" in the unenviable role of documenting the mess and/or arresting who did it?
Comments from someone from the Gang Intel unit would be interesting.
[Actually, I hope the Gang Intel unit members are doing something more useful than reading and responding to this dribble]
P.S. Useless advice: Homicide should totally look at the guy he hammered as a suspect. Or maybe someone he knows.... -
whynot_31 wrote: Good to know Paraderest.
Seriously- do you really care? Does it make any difference in your life whatsoever?
BTW, any idea if we are witnessing some internal Blood feud at the moment, or "struggle for control"?whynot_31 wrote: ....or are you "simply" in the unenviable role of documenting the mess and/or arresting who did it?
Wow- real nice way to talk to someone who gives us all the info we really need to know. What's with the pot shot to PR, man?whynot_31 wrote: Comments from someone from the Gang Intel unit would be interesting.
The people who work in gang intel definitely don't spend any time on here, because there is no gang activity on here. And if they started coming on Brooklynian and spewing all the shit they knew about the gangs...ya think that's wise!?!?! Dribble indeed.
[Actually, I hope the Gang Intel unit members are doing something more useful than reading and responding to this dribble]whynot_31 wrote: P.S. Useless advice: Homicide should totally look at the guy he hammered as a suspect. Or maybe someone he knows....
Oh God.....obvious and yes, useless. -
My responses in bold
Whatchuwant wrote: [quote=whynot_31]Good to know Paraderest.
Seriously- do you really care? Does it make any difference in your life whatsoever? True, the impact on me would likely be limited, but if I have the opportunity to ask a question, I usually ask it. Lately I've been wondering whether we have an organized structure to our gangs, or just a bunch of guys claiming they are bloods to be "cool". True, when somoene is shot it really doesn't matter if it came from the gun of a real blood or a poser, but it is still interesting. ....if only to me.
BTW, any idea if we are witnessing some internal Blood feud at the moment, or "struggle for control"?whynot_31 wrote: ....or are you "simply" in the unenviable role of documenting the mess and/or arresting who did it?
Wow- real nice way to talk to someone who gives us all the info we really need to know. What's with the pot shot to PR, man? No potshot. I'm simply pointing out that I wouldn't want PR's job. "Simply" is in quotes because those activities are often complicated hard. Next time I'll use sarcasm tags.whynot_31 wrote: Comments from someone from the Gang Intel unit would be interesting.
The people who work in gang intel definitely don't spend any time on here, because there is no gang activity on here. And if they started coming on Brooklynian and spewing all the shit they knew about the gangs...ya think that's wise!?!?! Dribble indeed. See above RE: asking questions for the heck of it. Dribble for the sake of dribble!
[Actually, I hope the Gang Intel unit members are doing something more useful than reading and responding to this dribble]whynot_31 wrote: P.S. Useless advice: Homicide should totally look at the guy he hammered as a suspect. Or maybe someone he knows....
Oh God.....obvious and yes, useless. There is a reason most criminals get caught, most don't have a plan re: getting away with it. Lots of people seem to have seen what went on, and if they talk to the paper, they usually talk to the police too. Despite it happening less than 24 hours ago, I'm betting the police have the genius in custody by now.
P.S. If we learn some part of the bloods looks like it is going to become dominant, maybe folks could use this info to lobby them, kinda like companies do for political parties. The good folks of Crown Heights could lobby that they conduct their shootings elsewhere, where no bystandards would get hurt. Like North Dakota or something.... -
As Paraderest can tell you, it's not that easy to get people to talk the police. It's amazing how many times shootings occur on crowded blocks and yet everyone present when the police arrive "didn't see nothing." If people cooperated more often, the homicide clearance rate would be closer to 90% instead of the current 50%.
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Boygabriel wrote: [quote=Briggs]
Really? Do you have a better suggestion? "YeahNO" is really a lot of input. I was simply making a point (even if it was extreme). But hey, why discuss alternatives when things are working so well now.
yeahNO
Many of these kids do not have the tools to make rational decisions about life. Extreme punishment measures are not going to work on people who aren't making reasoned decisions about their lives.
It will only lead to more incarceration, increased recidivism rates, and further demoralized and broken communities.
One could argue that extreme punishments for drugs for example work in China, but that is a largely homogeneous totalitarian society that has had corporal punishment for minor offenses for 150 years or more. And even then, I'm not sure their justice system is all that effective. -
cccc wrote: As Paraderest can tell you, it's not that easy to get people to talk the police. It's amazing how many times shootings occur on crowded blocks and yet everyone present when the police arrive "didn't see nothing." If people cooperated more often, the homicide clearance rate would be closer to 90% instead of the current 50%.
Mistrust of the police is not entirely irrational. And in many communities the police can't provide the protection needed to cooperate.
I'm not blaming the police, but I don't think these communities are acting wildly impractical either. -
Boygabriel wrote: [quote=cccc]As Paraderest can tell you, it's not that easy to get people to talk the police. It's amazing how many times shootings occur on crowded blocks and yet everyone present when the police arrive "didn't see nothing." If people cooperated more often, the homicide clearance rate would be closer to 90% instead of the current 50%.
Mistrust of the police is not entirely irrational. And in many communities the police can't provide the protection needed to cooperate.
I'm not blaming the police, but I don't think these communities are acting wildly impractical either.
You are both agreeing with each other.
So I thought I would simply be a third poster who agrees with each of you
....punishment can work, but it has to be consistent. As folks are pointing out, these kids often didn't get that at any point in their lives: not from their parents, not from the criminal justice system, etc.
(I, of course, do not know the deceased ....his situation may have been different)
Anyway, if you have the outlook that this kid's life is/was chaos and you, and believe that people desire some kind of structure in their lives, one can see how and why a being part of gang holds some appeal. -
I've posted this before, but this is a great discussion of why you should NEVER talk to the police unless you have to.
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Subject: Re: Murder at Pacific and Utica early Sunday morning 10/3/1
Carlton "CJ" Bright was my little cousin. He was only 19 y/o with a bright future ahead of him. Its unfortunate that his life was taken so senselessly. We as black people need to seriously stop commiting black on black crimes. My whole family is deeply sadden from our lost of CJ. RIP baby boy, we all love and will miss you Carlton -
I can't believe some of these comments. A life was just taken so prematurely, if any of you individuals has anything negative to say about CJ, please keep the comments to yourself. My family is already dealing with the lost of someone who was and still will be dear to us. Whatever is your personal feeling towards CJ, please dont share it if its distasteful. He deserves the respect that anyone deserves when their life is taken from them. Now, with that being said: God Bless! RIP CJ, your death has hurt many but we will always honor your life baby boy
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Safe Horizon operates programs for the victims of homicide. I am sorry for your loss, and encourage you to utilize their services if you believe they would be helpful.
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ParadeRest wrote: Would it still be so sad if you knew that just hours earlier he had smashed somebody over the head with a hammer?
There's no justification in violence but Carlton Bright did not deserve to die. He was my little cousin and now his life was taken abruptly over something that was unfortunate. I'm not justifying any of CJ's actions but he was a sweet kid and he doesn't deserve to be discuss in any distasteful manner. RIP Carlton Bright, we alllllllll love you and our hearts are filled with sorrow and disbelief -
booklaw wrote: What kind of question is that, ParadeRest?
The individual that ask the question about "Hitting some one over the head with a hammer" has to be the most inconsiderate and insensitive individual ever. Carlton Bright is my cousin, he lost his life behind something so juvenile. Carlton doesn't deserve negativity thrown on his name. He was a great kid aiming to go to college. RIP Carlton "CJ" Bright, you will always be remembered and loved. I Love you baby boy
Are you suggesting that happened, or are you just being insensitively snarky? -
shaneey, I am sorry about your loss. I agree that the death of your cousin was inexcusably tragic.
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Briggs wrote: [quote=Boygabriel][quote=Briggs]
Really? Do you have a better suggestion? "YeahNO" is really a lot of input. I was simply making a point (even if it was extreme). But hey, why discuss alternatives when things are working so well now.
yeahNO
Because cutting off people's hands is not what we do in this country, so BoyGabriel's just responding to the reality of your statement- as in, yea no- it ain't gonna happen.
On the one hand, I get that you're 'making a point'- eye for an eye and all- but cutting off people's hands is not an 'alternative.'
If you're going to make real suggestions, maybe they should be more realistic and pragmatic.
Moving on!
I realize that it is not a practical solution in this country. I was trying to make a point (and NOT an "eye for an eye" point) that maybe the most basic extreme punishment would actually make a difference, as not much else seems to be working. I'm a social worker for OCFS and I believe that the real solution to many of the problems with these kids is education. But unfortunately, while it makes sense and sounds great, it's not (currently) a realistic solution.
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