guy forgets to pay $75 fee his house burns down.

It doesn't matter. You put the fire out before it spreads to another person's property or on the person him/herself. That whole $75 fee is a shake down worthy of government sanctioned organized crime. Just absolutely disgusting that this happened.

And if the local government, or any part of the government decides to add a yearly fee for police protection, you don't pay and you're being violated? I guess you knew the deal, tough shit if you get maimed or killed. Some media is saying it's a Libertarian or right-wing issue, to me, it's fucking criminally retarded and dangerous! Those local politicians and firemen should be put on trial for gross negligence. Holy shit, we might as well go back to living in caves or tribes with that mentality, or worse, Tammany Hall.

Ah, but when you are "too big to fail" the government must step in.

Similarly, even if I have a conscience that will allow me to sit by and watch your libertarian house and kids burn, it is in my interest (as the Director of a Fire Department who has paying customers on both sides of your house) to put your fire out so it doesn't spread.

Ah, the free rider problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem

....as a result we tell Libertarians three things:

1. Fire taxes are not optional::
2. Shut up and pay the tax or lose your house to the County Treasurer.

AND/OR

3. Move to the desert and live in a trailer.

Mougar wrote: [quote=whynot_31]3. Move to the desert and live in a trailer.

I'll move to the desert, but I demand you use public funds to build out road, sewer, electrical, and phone service to my trailer. Also a steampunk duster and goggles in the event there's a sandstorm or way station gets it's liquor license finalized.

The movie Tremors was excellent.
...and it has Kevin Bacon in it.

Yah, I read it. You put the fucking fire out, then you proceed to collect the funds. And his risk,as you put it, combined with the fire department's actions puts others in danger. Suppose, that fire spread? Suppose, other houses burned or a forest fire caught on because of the fee stip, all the while with the firemen right there? "standing there and making sure it didn't spread?" Put the fucking fire out to prevent a spread and to save lives.

I'd like to pay my insurance premiums only in the even that I need them.

Otherwise, they are just a waste of money.

k thx

why not, it looks like you left your sarcasm tags off again.

sandcastler wrote: Sweet Tea, he probably only puts the sarcasm tags *after* he has already been misunderstood, the freeloader.

so true. Doesn't the "k thx" count for anything for anymore?

How are there people left who don't know that most things from me should be read with a sarcastic intonation? ....don't just read, LISTEN.

C'mon what could be wrong with me buying insurance whenever I am feeling sick? You mean they use the premiums from non-sick people to pay for the care sick people get? (sarcasm)

Next you'll tell me that we'll soon run out of social security money because there are too many people receiving it and not enough putting money in. (sarcasm)

I hate taxes and simultaneously want everything to be free damn it! (sarcasm)

....all of which leads to a discussion of "insurance premium vs tax".

In the case of the fire dept, clearly it should be a tax ....who after all thinks THEIR house will catch on fire? ...and/or believes the fire department will really let it burn to the ground if they don't pay the fee?

....as discussed above, we have too many externalities (one of which is I really don't want to watch your kids and house burn to death because you were too cheap to fork out $75) to let some things be optional.

....as a result of my self interest, I will do everything I can to impose a tax on folks for services like this.

You are either in the fire district (and pay a tax) or you are not ....but there is none of this "optional" stuff.

Re: health insurance. Same deal. It's kinda like the old people who vote against the suburban school tax assessment because they are old and don't have kids in school anymore, only in reverse (the old would want it because they would be big beneficiaries).

.....no one who is healthy would want to pay into a insurance scheme that mostly benefits those who use health care the most (i.e the old and the disabled).

Presently they are simply uninsured: Often the their care either gets paid for taxpayers or ends up bankrupting the patient.

As a result of the problem that Bemis describes, many more folks are ending with insurance ....but guess what: It's Medicaid!

....Which is exploding at a huge rate, and paid for by us all. http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=59376

[perhaps the free loader problem will result in universal health care, kinda like it often results in EVERYONE living in a fire district or not ....but no one living in a "sorta optional fire district".]

P.S. Since this morning, Mougar and I have moved to the desert to film Tremors 12. We expect you provide us with only the benefits we want, and want to pay none of those pesky taxes. k thx