Cyclists Without Regard for Anyone or Anything in Park Slope
Comments
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I do a lot of biking and am pretty much on the same page as Piano here. I stop or slow at lights, mostly use bike lanes, never salmon and am courteous to peds and good drivers. I'm also belligerent and aggressive towards unsafe drivers.
In recognition of the neighborhood's desire for more courteous bikers I vow to do my best to follow all applicable rules of the road from here on out.
In addition you won't hear my bike stereo blaring, won't smell my bike engine idling, won't get hit by my bike door, won't go to war for my bike gas, won't pay pay my i'm lazy medical bills, won't get caught in my bike traffic, won't get blocked by my double parked bike, won't be awoken by my impatient bike honking nor be put off by the false sense of strength I derive from sitting in my bike cage. -
owler wrote: As both a biker myself and also a avid NYC walker ( I walk a lot ), I have to say the new bike lanes although very cool for bikers to avoid being hit by cars are well meaning but are also dangerous for pedestrians.
How oblivious can you be to not notice the PPW bike lane? OK, maybe once, MAYBE if you have never seen a bike lane before or something. But to walk into them all the time and not know they are bike lanes? That is your fault, you are being a moron. If not talking about the PPW lanes specifically, then that's still stupid because that means you're stepping onto a street and you should be looking out for there to be bikes and/or cars that might hit you if you step off the curb.
I walk into them all the time now and have no idea they are bike lanes, then next thing you know you have some person on a bike barreling down on you.
I've almost been hit several times and I've seen others almost get hit both in Brooklyn and Manhattan.
There's definitely going to be a rise in bike/pedestrian accidents next summer, and unfortunately it might take more then one person getting seriously hurt for the city to notice.
Until then tread safely.
On the PPW lanes there are tons of idiots who step into the late without looking at all. I have no pity for such folk if they get hit. There are also idiots who simply walk in the bike lane, or even STAND there talking to their other idiotic friends. I don't yell at them but I might one day because they are fucking retards. The best design would have been to put the lane on the other side of the cars with maybe a chain or poles to divide the bikes from the cars. That way stupid people and kids would see it as more of a "road" and be less likely to run, walk or stand in the bike lane, and also less likely to cross it without looking.
I bike and walk in park slope. The law says you can't jaywalk, but pretty much every reasonable person does it. Cars don't tolerate bikers well, and bikers present a far smaller danger to pedestrians than cars do to law-abiding bikers who ride in the street. I think it's perfectly acceptable to jaywalk on foot or on a bike as long as you have determined that doing so will not put you or anyone else in danger. Same goes with riding on the sidewalks.
I ride in the street if I can but if traffic is too fast or aggressive I might ride on the sidewalks. I make sure to give pedestrians the right of way. The only people who seem to mind are those with kids -- even though I always slow down to a crawl, and sometimes even walk the bike past them. Only one person has ever said anything to me, and she was just being a nag. I didn't present any danger to her or her dog. I was riding down slower than walking speed and she still was offended. Some people just like to blindly follow rules and not think about whether they are necessary in the situation. Yes you are breaking a rule by jaywalking or riding on the sidewalk, but it's something that if you decide to do it you should be prepared for the consequences if harm occurs. As such you should take caution to break the rules safely. It's no different than a jaywalker on foot. In fact even when I am riding in the street the #1 problem is pedestrian jaywalkers who don't see me coming when I have the right of way.
After five years in this neighborhood I've never had a single accident or close call with a biker. Actually, not true. The only annoying thing I've encountered has been times when I've been riding my bike in the street and come across another biker riding against traffic. -
8thandPrez wrote: I think I live in a different city than most of you. I'm out in the neighborhood and park every day. Every day. I've NEVER had an encounter with a bike aside from the aggressive weekend warrior cyclists that use the park road as their speed track. I have an encounter with an aggressive car driver *every single day* or even multiple times per day.
Agree with everything here.
Bikes are just simply not the problem and well-designed, separated bike lanes are a good idea. Sure, there will be some dumbass cyclists who go the wrong way, don't stop for pedestrians, don't obey laws, etc etc, but they are FAR outnumbered by the cars that do the same thing. And, Naidre's, if you're a pedestrian, getting hit by a car hurts a lot more than getting hit by a bike. -
Wow - so glad to see such an important issue of a bike lane finally overshadow the other super important issue that the Park Slopers community argue over, such as strollers and dog poop.
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pmonk wrote: Wow - so glad to see such an important issue of a bike lane finally overshadow the other super important issue that the Park Slopers community argue over, such as strollers and dog poop.
well, i am definitely pro dog poop. if my dog doesn't poop, then there are issues in my household. -
Aquamann wrote: [quote=pmonk]Wow - so glad to see such an important issue of a bike lane finally overshadow the other super important issue that the Park Slopers community argue over, such as strollers and dog poop.
well, i am definitely pro dog poop. if my dog doesn't poop, then there are issues in my household.
Brown rice works with my dog -
It always makes me laugh that when someone dares to ctritique any aspect og of bike riding like the OP did; it's immediately assumed that the person is "pro-car" or some nonsense like that.
Is it possible that there are people who want all road vehicles(bikes and cars) to actually follow traffic regs?
There are a lot of people that become assholes when they get behind the wheel of a car in NYC(too many probably), there are also a lot of a people that become ashholes when they hop on their bikes. -
Piano wrote: I always see parents riding bikes with their young children on the sidewalk, and this is just awful. Not only is this illegal,
actually, it IS legal for an adult to ride on the sidewalk is if they're accompanying a child under the age of 12:(i) No person shall ride or operate a bicycle upon any sidewalk area
I support the bike lane...obviously everyone needs to modify their own behavior to adjust to them (pedestrians have to remember to look both ways, drivers that are parking have to remember to check for oncoming bikes before opening doors, etc) but I think the only way bike lanes are going to be accepted in the long run is if bike riders are much more conscientious about following the law (and some really aggressive ticketing by the police)
unless permitted by sign. This prohibition shall not apply to the operation
of bicycles with wheels of less than 26 inches in diameter upon the
sidewalk by children of 12 years or less in age. -
BrooklynGigCenter wrote: If the city wanted to get serious about promoting bicycling as a mode of transportation and making it safe, they'd try to emulate cities like Amsterdam where bicycling is safe and pervasive. And the bicyclists follow the rules of the road.
Amsterdam is about as big as Park Slope. Many streets can fit one car if pedestrians really get over to the side. Paris is probably a closer comparison, NEVER saw a bicycle on the sidewalk in Paris, and WTF! Bikes stopping at red lights? No racing bikes made of carbon fiber with d bag riders in spandex,(same is true of Amsterdam in that point, biggest piece of junk bikes are all you see). Europeans don't seem to feel helmets are necessary, personal choice, maybe because they don't ride like psychos they don't worry so much. -
i think that many of the pro-bike posters have openly acknowledged that there are many aggressive/non-law-abiding cyclists. and everyone knows that there are aggressive motorists.
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squindar wrote: [quote=Piano]I always see parents riding bikes with their young children on the sidewalk, and this is just awful. Not only is this illegal,
actually, it IS legal for an adult to ride on the sidewalk is if they're accompanying a child under the age of 12:(i) No person shall ride or operate a bicycle upon any sidewalk area
unless permitted by sign. This prohibition shall not apply to the operation
of bicycles with wheels of less than 26 inches in diameter upon the
sidewalk by children of 12 years or less in age.
Squindar, that snippet of the law says it's legal for children under 12 (riding a bike with smaller wheels) to ride on the sidewalk. Doesn't make any exception for their parents. -
I don't believe children should be transported in anything on the road without four wheels and airbags. At least not in a city. I still don't understand how parents allow their children to take the same risk dealing with traffic as they do. It's kind of like when the elevator was down in the Food Coop. I had no less than three parents ask me if they could leave their children downstairs, in the entrance/lobby area, to be watched.
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Idlewild wrote: I don't believe children should be transported in anything on the road without four wheels and airbags. At least not in a city.
kids can't ride bicycles?!?! i understand you point, but that would be very sad. -
Naidre'sParkSlope wrote: I've been in a car accident, and I've been hit by a speeding bicyclist inside prospect park. My car has airbags, my body does not. I was more hurt by the bicycle than I was by the car accident.
Coming to a cyclist near you soon, the airbag helmet! It inflates on impact (essentially).
From:
http://davidreport.com/blog/201010/the-invisible-airbag-bicycle-helmet-hovding/ -
Aquamann wrote: [quote=Idlewild]I don't believe children should be transported in anything on the road without four wheels and airbags. At least not in a city.
kids can't ride bicycles?!?! i understand you point, but that would be very sad.
I mean as passengers. Ex: Riding on the back of a bike in a child seat or child knapsack, or being hooked up to a bike via those baby carriage trailers. By all means kids, when you break the shackles of training wheels, learn how to do pop-a-wheelies and ride the streets responsibly and safely.
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Idlewild wrote: [quote=Aquamann][quote=Idlewild]I don't believe children should be transported in anything on the road without four wheels and airbags. At least not in a city.
kids can't ride bicycles?!?! i understand you point, but that would be very sad.
I mean as passengers. Ex: Riding on the back of a bike in a child seat or child knapsack, or being hooked up to a bike via those baby carriage trailers. By all means kids, when you break the shackles of training wheels, learn how to do pop-a-wheelies and ride the streets responsibly and safely.
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Given that children can't legally ride in the front seat of a car, and that no car on the market has airbags for the back seat, I'm going to assume that you're being entirely sarcastic.
Especially given the reckless driving done by most taxi/livery drivers. Riding a bike is safer than riding in the back of some of those cabs - and that glass/steel partition HURTS. -
swngnmonk wrote: [quote=Idlewild][quote=Aquamann][quote=Idlewild]I don't believe children should be transported in anything on the road without four wheels and airbags. At least not in a city.
kids can't ride bicycles?!?! i understand you point, but that would be very sad.
I mean as passengers. Ex: Riding on the back of a bike in a child seat or child knapsack, or being hooked up to a bike via those baby carriage trailers. By all means kids, when you break the shackles of training wheels, learn how to do pop-a-wheelies and ride the streets responsibly and safely.
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Given that children can't legally ride in the front seat of a car, and that no car on the market has airbags for the back seat, I'm going to assume that you're being entirely sarcastic.
Especially given the reckless driving done by most taxi/livery drivers. Riding a bike is safer than riding in the back of some of those cabs - and that glass/steel partition HURTS.
I'm not being sarcastic at all. Besides automakers installing side impact bags in the rear, there are baby seats which anchor into the rear seat safety belts which lessen impact. I'm only talking about babies, one to three year olds, not older kids, whom I have never seen being towed in a trailer carriage or on their parent's back in a sack. And I'm certainly not questioning the safety of bikes overall, just the safety of the bike and its occupants when it slams (or is slammed into) by a car or pedestrian. Of which there is a good chance of happening. -
ahhh, i get it. yes, i often wonder about a baby as a passenger.
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squindar wrote: actually, it IS legal
Huh, I did not know that. Well, at least I never yelled at anyone for doing that.
I still think it's awful and I don't think that's a good law. They might as well let everyone ride on the sidewalk then - I don't see how little kids are any safer than adults. Usually they're not because they're not as coordinated. And if they do allow accompanying adults, I don't see how they can really stop their kid from running into someone. -
swngnmonk wrote:
Yeah, you're right...I thought it did, and I went back and looked at various versions of the administrative code to see where I got that idea and I don't see it anywhere. It looks like if you're an adult, riding on the sidewalk can get you a $100 fine + bike confiscated. Assuming there's ever anyone around who's going to enforce that.
bike with smaller wheels) to ride on the sidewalk. Doesn't make any exception for their parents. -
That makes even less sense to allow unsupervised kids ride their bicycle on the sidewalk. So that means a three-year-old can ride their bike on the sidewalk as long as they are not supervised by an adult?
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Yeah, which is why when my kid was learning to ride, I broke the law and rode nearby on the sidewalk. It was just too dangerous to have him swerving around old people and strollers. Not to mention that until kids are about 10 their bikes, even if they are the correct size for them, are usually extremely heavy for them. It wasn't unusual for me to see child and bike go over sideways and be unable to get up.
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me too. ^^^^
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Re: KingGheedora, that's some rant. What's a bikelane again? haha Kiddin.
I actually leave the neighborhood there buddy.
lol: -
Re: swngnmonk
No.
[youtube
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And that video is exactly what's wrong with some cyclists. He runs over an old man and his only comment is "He wasn't using a crosswalk. It cancels out. Keep walking".
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These are some interesting anecdotes. However, based on my experience working in the ER, not a shift goes by when I don't see multiple people injured in motor vehicle collisions, pedestrians struck by motor vehicles and cyclists struck by motor vehicles. Pedestrians struck by cyclists are an EXTREMELY rare phenomenon in what is the busiest trauma center in Brooklyn. The fact is that this whole idea of cyclists as a major public health threat is imaginary fear-mongering. Cars are the public health threat. The data collected on PPW since the bike lane was created bear this out. The bike lane has made it much safer.
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This year, let's force Santa to wear a helmet. He is setting a bad example on that sleigh
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8thandPrez wrote: I think I live in a different city than most of you. I'm out in the neighborhood and park every day. Every day. I've NEVER had an encounter with a bike aside from the aggressive weekend warrior cyclists that use the park road as their speed track. I have an encounter with an aggressive car driver *every single day* or even multiple times per day.
I'm in the park every single night and you're wrong. A guy almost got hit 2 nights ago getting out of his car. The biker flew by and just missed him. Those weekend warrior cyclists are out every night. Never do they slow down when we're walking.
Bikes are just simply not the problem and well-designed, separated bike lanes are a good idea. Sure, there will be some dumbass cyclists who go the wrong way, don't stop for pedestrians, don't obey laws, etc etc, but they are FAR outnumbered by the cars that do the same thing. And, Naidre's, if you're a pedestrian, getting hit by a car hurts a lot more than getting hit by a bike.
Just shows how stupid it is to have a bike lane when they're riding inside the park.
There was a ton of traffic tonight because one driver was trying to park thereby holding up a lane leaving one lane for traffic causing a lot of horn blowing. Pretty soon when the snow hits the bike lane will be even more deserted. Screwing up traffic for a few bikers is absurd especially when they can ride inside the park. -
Do the people who think we should eliminate the bike lanes because there's a loop in the park also think we should eliminate the sidewalks for the same reason? The loop is not for traffic. It is for people enjoying the park.
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