More PS mommy fun!
Comments
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WhyFi wrote: Sad thing is, we tried like hell to get lower income families subsidised PH CSA shares. It was ridiculous, something like $10/week and less for enough organic veggies to feed an average family of 4. We almost couldn't give'm away.
as a former editorial honcho, now turned starving artist (mid life crisis, i'm sure), i'd love some of those veggies...
Why have veggies when you can have Little Debbie snack cakes? :roll:
here comes my soapboax: sadly, the term "lower income" doesn't apply to those of us with IRAs, except when it come to health insurance. maybe it shouldn't, i don't know, but i do feel in a way punished by my choices where this is concerned. i know i've had far more opportunities than most people in this country, and am hoping i don't sound spoiled. i just wish there was a way for all lower income people to get these subsidized "benefits". -
WhyFi wrote: Sad thing is, we tried like hell to get lower income families subsidised PH CSA shares. It was ridiculous, something like $10/week and less for enough organic veggies to feed an average family of 4. We almost couldn't give'm away.
one of my friends thought it was hilarious when I had a nervous breakdown in a Bronx Pathmark. I read a sign that said "the only WIC cheese is American or White American cheese" and went off on a rant that started with "what the fuck? I pay all of that money to the government so poor people can pick between yellow and white plastic? no wonder ..." etc.
Why have veggies when you can have Little Debbie snack cakes? :roll: -
brooklynpotter wrote: [quote=Anonymous]
i'd be curious to know the socio-econonomic info on those with the most obese children.
Couldn't agree with you more. No apologies needed. Obese kids is a sad situation. Shame on their parents.
i spend a ridiculous amount of $$ on food, because so much of it's fresh produce and i rarely buy processed food. (ok, occasionally...) but. cheap/inexpensive food is bad for you: fast food, frozen dinners, generic fruit loops, spagettios, subsidized school lunches, soda vs. juice...
not saying that wealthy/well off/comfortably fixed families don't have a weight problem, just that crap food is often far cheaper.
Like you, I also spend a ton of money on healthy food. Many children in this country are super-sized because their parents allow them to shovel their faces with junk food. Very sad. However, I can think of two specific cases involving obese children under 5 years old from high income families of European descent. I don't want to get too specific out of fear someone here may know them, but I will mention that in both cases:
-The children are spoiled rotten
-The parents own SUVs
-The mothers cook generous portions of healthy meals from scratch, believing that because they are using fresh, organic foods that their children can eat as much as they like
-The parents own very nice homes
-The parents are highly educated
These children, not yet 5 years old, are true fatsos. If a parent was starving a child, I'd like to think a doctor or teacher would step in. I'd also like to think an official would step in if a parent was growing an obese, (and most likely) diabetic toodler. It's not cute. It's unhealthy. -
raw wrote: If a parent was starving a child, I'd like to think a doctor or teacher would step in. I'd also like to think an official would step in if a parent was growing an obese, (and most likely) diabetic toodler. It's not cute. It's unhealthy.
wow. that's a pretty hardline stance.
personally, I think obesity is a complex and important medical issue, and I don't think any of the solutions to the epidemic are simple. there is tons of evidence that a propensity toward obesity is genetic and that physical activity plays a larger role than diet in making and keeping people obese. further, I think you could argue that early-age withholding of food, even when a kid is in their teens, could be a nice building block into an eating disorder. I know tons of women, especially, who remember being put on diets at very early ages as their first foray into controlled eating which led to, often in short periods of time, their first foray into anorexia, bulimia or binge eating. -
coco wrote: [quote=kosherdave][quote=Drano]Eh, I can't really begrudge anyone the stroller - you have a baby or toddler and need to do a lot of walking, it's necessary. The killer for me is occasionally seeing 5 and 6 year-olds being pushed around. I don't get that.
Agreed. I think this is part of the reason we have soooo many fat kids. I really really dislike fat kids. They gross me out (sorry I'm crabby and have spent a lot of time at the gym this and last month).
Too funny. Especially when they're in the stroller and dragging their feet along. I find the little rascals in this neighborhood so ill-mannered too. Have you ever eaten at Two Boots? When I first moved here I tried it and it made me want to go home and tie my own tubes. The kids are out of control. (I think any teens who think getting pregnant is cool should be forced to work there.) But it's the parents' fault for letting their kids loose. I also recently saw a mother breast feeding what looked like a kindergartener. He had to have been 4 years old. He had teeth. I swear.
I am totally cool with breast feeding in public and consider our culture's attitude towards breast as sex objects messed up. Human breast milk is healthy. I am also aware of African tribes that tradtitionally breast feed their children to age 6 to prevent starvation and malnutrition. However, in the context of Park Slope culture/society where certain parents let their intelligent, healthy, five-year-olds act rude in public, ride around in strollers, AND WEAR DIAPERS, I confess I'm disturbed. I wonder if it has something to do with parents not wanting to let their "babies" grow up and become independent. I myself got kicked out of both stroller and diapers by age three and got in trouble if I acted up in public as a child. But I grew up 100 years ago on Mars. -
alafairnadia wrote: [quote=raw]If a parent was starving a child, I'd like to think a doctor or teacher would step in. I'd also like to think an official would step in if a parent was growing an obese, (and most likely) diabetic toodler. It's not cute. It's unhealthy.
wow. that's a pretty hardline stance.
personally, I think obesity is a complex and important medical issue, and I don't think any of the solutions to the epidemic are simple. there is tons of evidence that a propensity toward obesity is genetic and that physical activity plays a larger role than diet in making and keeping people obese. further, I think you could argue that early-age withholding of food, even when a kid is in their teens, could be a nice building block into an eating disorder. I know tons of women, especially, who remember being put on diets at very early ages as their first foray into controlled eating which led to, often in short periods of time, their first foray into anorexia, bulimia or binge eating.
Men get eating dissorders too! -
Anonymous wrote: I myself got kicked out of both stroller and diapers by age three and got in trouble if I acted up in public as a child. But I grew up 100 years ago on Mars.
oh my, i am so glad to read this. sometimes i think, because i don't have children, that i'm not being sensitive enough to those around me that do.
at some point in june i was in prospect park and was near two mothers with babies and slightly older kids in tow. the older kids had kites. their moms were too busy on the phone or tending to the babies in the bugaboos that they let the other kids run wild with the kites. screaming! running! and then, on his way back to his mom, one of the little boys dragged his kite behind him and on its way past me the aforementioned kite smacked me in the face. i got a very wimpy apology from the mother, who sent her son back out to fly his kite again. and again, half an hour later, the little boy came back past my blanket, kite in tow, and i'm assuming his mother wasn't watching (could she have been watching?), and the kite smacked me dead in the face again. thwack. another measly apology i didn't bother turning around for.
ergo, perhaps we both grew up on mars. because if i'd behaved this way when i was little i'd have been taken home and stuck in my room. and more so, my mom would have been gushing with apologies to the woman who was thwacked with the kite. -
brooklynpotter wrote: [quote=Anonymous]I myself got kicked out of both stroller and diapers by age three and got in trouble if I acted up in public as a child. But I grew up 100 years ago on Mars.
ergo, perhaps we both grew up on mars. because if i'd behaved this way when i was little i'd have been taken home and stuck in my room. and more so, my mom would have been gushing with apologies to the woman who was thwacked with the kite.
wonder if they have the "wooden spoon " on Mars as well 'casue where I grew up that's the only threat I needed to hear. you know, don't even think I ever got hit w/ it, just a threat...lol
we NEVER acted out in public. and were taught to be considerate of those around us, i.e. your ass BETTER give up that seat on a bus to the elderly/handicaped. -
ah yea, I almost forgot my mother's FAVORITE saying to my brother and I...."children should be seen, not heard"
ok, so maybe she WAS a tyrant (kidding) but I just knew as a child to be on my best behavior...it wasn't until I was a teenager THEN I acted out...probably 'woulda "thwacked" you in the face with a kite then too
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I now know trixieNYC weakness.
spoon!!!! -
brooklynpotter wrote: oh my, i am so glad to read this. sometimes i think, because i don't have children, that i'm not being sensitive enough to those around me that do. .
I think you have to give kids a certain break. They are a little out of control both physically and emotionally still. BUT.....that being said I am shocked at the number of over-indulged and also neglected brats and I won't give THAT a break nor the simpering parents who just sit back and let their little terror wreak havoc. A meltdown in public happens and any normal polite parent knows how horrifying that experience is. For example, one of my kids had one today (this is the fourth they have ever had so I am lucky). What did I do? I scooped him and left the premises IMMEDIATELY.(Of course, sometimes you can't leave---you have ordered food, you need to settle the bill and luckily that has never happened to me). I am like the dog whisperer...I try to anticipate a meltdown and change the situation. WWCD--what would Cesar do? He would jerk the leash and try to stop a bad situation from escalating! But if you are on the cell phone or drinking your tea lounge latte, it is easy to miss that first tell tale whine and stop things before there is no going back. As I said before, being a parent is a lot of work--a lot of work in the details and not diapers and such.
But even good kids mess up. They are trying to learn how to behave and they often just don't have control yet and that is the parents job--to help them learn that control and how to behave and hence, it is generous to give those kids a break. -
alafairnadia wrote: there is tons of evidence that a propensity toward obesity is genetic and that physical activity plays a larger role than diet in making and keeping people obese. further, I think you could argue that early-age withholding of food, even when a kid is in their teens, could be a nice building block into an eating disorder.
Lots of people do make this argument, but I don't find it very convincing. First, I think the argument pits a high likelihood of obesity-related problems against a low likelihood of eating disorders. That is to say, should you cancel nutrition classes for 100 8th grade students to prevent 1 of them developing anorexia, who might have done so anyway? Second, I think eating disorders often don't have very much to do with eating; it's a mental illness that manifests itself through eating habits.
I think there is a lot that can be done to combat obesity that has nothing to do with withholding food, and a lot of these plans get scuttled by people who are paranoid about causing eating disorders, which are much less prevalent than obesity in general and mostly appear among young white women in affluent communities (hence the disproportionate amount of press coverage). I think that's a pretty crappy rationale for not tackling health problems that are increasing in pretty much every population group (to varying degrees). -
trixieNYC wrote: [quote=brooklynpotter][quote=Anonymous]I myself got kicked out of both stroller and diapers by age three and got in trouble if I acted up in public as a child. But I grew up 100 years ago on Mars.
ergo, perhaps we both grew up on mars. because if i'd behaved this way when i was little i'd have been taken home and stuck in my room. and more so, my mom would have been gushing with apologies to the woman who was thwacked with the kite.
wonder if they have the "wooden spoon " on Mars as well 'casue where I grew up that's the only threat I needed to hear. you know, don't even think I ever got hit w/ it, just a threat...lol
we NEVER acted out in public. and were taught to be considerate of those around us, i.e. your ass BETTER give up that seat on a bus to the elderly/handicaped.
Sorry to hear about getting hit in the face with a kite. A toddler once tore open a bag of cookies at Key Food on 7th Avenue and threw some at me. The inconsiderate parent did not apologize to me, appearing to be so overwhelmed by her "cute" child's "charm." But that was months ago and now I have just returned from Brooklyn Museum's "First Saturday" event featuring an art exhibition on grafitti. I was confused by signs asking visitors to please not touch the paintings. I wondered, who would touch a painting in a museum? I was stunned to soon watch a parent direct a child to stand in front of a painting so the parent could take a photo of the child with the painting. The child actually LEANED ON her small body on the painting, pawing it with her palms, and rubbing her blonde curly head against it. The parent took at least two snapshots before calling the child off the painting. Someone near me whispered, "damn, that kid could have put her head through that painting." The parent did not seem to care and the child skipped back to the parent happily. I don't get it. -
armchair_warrior wrote: I now know trixieNYC weakness.
Yes!
spoon!!!!
Seriously, there must be some balance between humiliating, physically painful punishments and the laissez-faire parenting philosophy that treats children's bad manners as amusements that the public should overlook, helplessly tolerate, or even enjoy. The most extreme laissez-faire parent was depicted in the film "Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby" in which Ricky Bobby’s children were praised for verbally abusing their elders. How can any child or parent be compared to the creeps in this movie? After you get kicked by a preschooler or hit by a stroller on Garfield Pace and interact with an unapologetic parent, you'll make the connection. -
EmilyM wrote: [quote=alafairnadia]there is tons of evidence that a propensity toward obesity is genetic and that physical activity plays a larger role than diet in making and keeping people obese. further, I think you could argue that early-age withholding of food, even when a kid is in their teens, could be a nice building block into an eating disorder.
Lots of people do make this argument, but I don't find it very convincing. First, I think the argument pits a high likelihood of obesity-related problems against a low likelihood of eating disorders. That is to say, should you cancel nutrition classes for 100 8th grade students to prevent 1 of them developing anorexia, who might have done so anyway? Second, I think eating disorders often don't have very much to do with eating; it's a mental illness that manifests itself through eating habits.
I think there is a lot that can be done to combat obesity that has nothing to do with withholding food, and a lot of these plans get scuttled by people who are paranoid about causing eating disorders, which are much less prevalent than obesity in general and mostly appear among young white women in affluent communities (hence the disproportionate amount of press coverage). I think that's a pretty crappy rationale for not tackling health problems that are increasing in pretty much every population group (to varying degrees).
I agree with you and don't think anything I said really contradicts what you're saying. most of the childhood obesity leading to eating disorder cases I've ever seen are among wealthier individuals.
I do think there is a systemic problem wrt to obesity that is difficult to address with education alone. if WIC only covers american cheese, that means it doesn't cover low-fat cheese. if you only have $2 to spend on lunch, you can get two double cheeseburgers at mcdonalds. I don't think you can get a filling, healthy salad for $2 anywhere. etc. I don't know what the solution to that is. -
alafairnadia wrote: I don't think you can get a filling, healthy salad for $2 anywhere.
Unless you make it at home. -
I'm not convinced that low-fat foods don't actually contribute to obesity (although I just had a piece of lite Laughing Cow cheese).
It is sad that you can buy food for $2 at McD's and can't get a salad (at least a filling one) anywhere for the same price.
I think it's very hard to eat healthily. I think you COULD make a healthy meal and bring it with you for lunch, but that requires more planning than many people have time for. -
Flexichick wrote: I'm not convinced that low-fat foods don't actually contribute to obesity (although I just had a piece of lite Laughing Cow cheese).
I heard once a report on NPR how fat is more satisfying and hence you eat less when you eat full fat food. so you are probably right about this low fat business. Up at our cottage--everyone is HUGE in the local town and you cannot find anything that is not low fat in the grocery store.
It is sad that you can buy food for $2 at McD's and can't get a salad (at least a filling one) anywhere for the same price.
I think it's very hard to eat healthily. I think you COULD make a healthy meal and bring it with you for lunch, but that requires more planning than many people have time for. -
Yep, KM - full-fat food IS more satisfying. There are lots of "diets" supporting eating "real" food (e.g. that popular French food diet - eat real foods, but in moderation).
I lost 20 lbs. and whenever I hit a plateau, I'd add some full-fat ice cream and stuff to get my metabolism working faster again. -
Flexichick wrote: I lost 20 lbs. and whenever I hit a plateau, I'd add some full-fat ice cream and stuff to get my metabolism working faster again.
Flexi, if you're serious about, ah, getting your metabolism going, check where this thread got derailed to... Ice cream is for beginners. -
I'm good now, but thanks :-)
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CHE wrote: [quote=Flexichick]I lost 20 lbs. and whenever I hit a plateau, I'd add some full-fat ice cream and stuff to get my metabolism working faster again.
Flexi, if you're serious about, ah, getting your metabolism going, check where this thread got derailed to... Ice cream is for beginners.somehow it always boils down to the goodness of cheese.
and for good mac and cheese, that place on the corner of smith/union has the best i've ever had. -
brooklynpotter wrote: that place on the corner of smith/union has the best i've ever had.
What's it called? (I mean, cheese curds like I was pushing to flexi are genuinely awesome, but not in a you'd-actually-eat-them-more-than-once-a-year sort of way. Good mac and cheese on the other hand...)
Extra-long run around the park time. -
I don't think I ever had cheese curds, but I am a cheesewhore, so if they're cheesey, I'd probably like 'em.
Bar-B-Q had a small mac-n-cheese for like $2-3 or something ridiculously cheap. I'll have to try it.
I think a whole big mac-n-cheese might feel good while I'm eating it, but not so good later (a la White Castle, but not with the same effect
) -
Flexichick wrote: I don't think I ever had cheese curds, but I am a cheesewhore, so if they're cheesey, I'd probably like 'em.
Fresh, deep-fried cheese curds?! "Probably like 'em"?! If they were served more than once per year in MN, I'm sure that many, many people would die an early, greasy death. -
So, are these evil heart-stoppers able to be found ANYWHERE in BKLN? I may just have to try some
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CHE wrote: [quote=brooklynpotter] that place on the corner of smith/union has the best i've ever had.
What's it called? (I mean, cheese curds like I was pushing to flexi are genuinely awesome, but not in a you'd-actually-eat-them-more-than-once-a-year sort of way. Good mac and cheese on the other hand...)
Extra-long run around the park time.
cheese curds rock. but i have to tell you, this mac and cheese is awesome. and i don't know the name of the place because it recently changed, but it's the only restaurant on that corner, and it's a block from the carroll stop on the F.
you won't regret it, i promise you. -
Thanks for the mac & cheese tip. It'll be a mission. I'll report back.
Flexichick wrote: So, are these evil heart-stoppers able to be found ANYWHERE in BKLN?
Well, WhyFi's googling on the Yo! thread says no, so farâ€â€but I wonder: if I ordered a case from Minnesota, if a couple pints and a little cash could convince the ChipShop guys to fire them up, and all the Minnesotans, temporary-Minnesotans, wannabe-Minnesotans, people who say they're from Minnesota to cover up that they're from Wisconsin, and all the remaining sad, sad, unexposed masses from the curdless-states could indulge en masse. Mmmm, utopias. -
armchair_warrior wrote: spoon!!!!
What are you, "The Tick"?
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alafairnadia wrote:
Well, I think we're basically agreeing, then. But I still think that just because education won't solve the entire problem, that doesn't mean one should give up on it. I'm frankly more concerned about sugars than fats. Kids drink an unbelievable amount of soda these days, and maybe education could convince them to drink water some of the time--that's free!
I do think there is a systemic problem wrt to obesity that is difficult to address with education alone. if WIC only covers american cheese, that means it doesn't cover low-fat cheese. if you only have $2 to spend on lunch, you can get two double cheeseburgers at mcdonalds. I don't think you can get a filling, healthy salad for $2 anywhere. etc. I don't know what the solution to that is.
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