Homebuying in Crown Heights South

cool the kid · October 2010

krowonhill wrote: And, no, I don't think people on this board like to talk about gentrification because they don't like to feel like the "bad guy". I have seen people here react viciously when the topic is raised. There is a tremendous amount of denial about the realities of gentrification on this board, as well as an allergy to discussing the role of privilege in gentrification.

Probably because they were compared to the colonizers who came to America, which was wrong on about 32 levels

Or probably because it's silly to talk about gentrification explicitly here, given the facts that many regular posters have been in the area for a decade or more and are as vested in the neighborhood as anyone whose at risk of displacement....

Or more likely because many of the regulars here were displaced out of Manhattan during its boom, and understand the dynamics of NYC since it was cleaned up in the 90s...

For some reason I cannot understand certain people like to categorize gentrifiers as evil conspirators hell bent on draining the character and color of the neighborhoods they inhabit. I have yet to see any proof of this being so. Like those being displaced gentrifiers are just New Yorkers trying to get by. So it's silly to demonize them without warrant when they are more similar than different to those they've displaced. It's a baseless, counterproductive, divisive and at times inflammatory stance to take.

whynot_31 · October 2010

Two key concepts are "individual self interest" and "arms length"

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/A/ArmsLength.aspx

these terms should be compared and contrast with the definition of "acting in concert" or "conspiracy".

This discussion is continued here:
http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=59810&start=90

Page 3, October 27, 2010.

Please continue to discuss South Crown Heights here.

....despite what Krow seems to to believe, it really is quite nice.

ntfool · October 2010

krowonhill wrote: For some reason I cannot understand certain people like to categorize gentrifiers as evil conspirators hell bent on draining the character and color of the neighborhoods they inhabit. I have yet to see any proof of this being so. Like those being displaced gentrifiers are just New Yorkers trying to get by. So it's silly to demonize them without warrant when they are more similar than different to those they've displaced. It's a baseless, counterproductive, divisive and at times inflammatory stance to take.

Okay, fine. But I'm still going to be demonizing hipsters. Just sayin'.

whynot_31 · October 2010

Ntfool's post makes it look like Krowonhill wrote that, when actually CTK wrote that in response to Krow.

The board is acting a little weird today. It's important who thinks who is evil, we don't want readers to get confused.

PS. Spurn is right, some of the hipsters are ridiculous

krowonhill · October 2010

It seems that even raising the specter of gentrification must mean that I think gentrifiers are "evil," even though I never said this. A useless confounding of my point, but also a typical reaction.

In fact, I have said that 1) I am a gentrifier myself, and 2) I believe that some gentrification can be good for a neighborhood. I believe like Jane Jacobs that socioeconomically mixed neighborhoods (and cities) are the most healthy and sustainable. Crown Heights was not that 10 years ago.

But I have also said repeatedly that I think that the rapid state of gentrification that is going on in CH now is causing trouble and will not end well. It has resulted in a fair amount of racial tension which is pitting neighbors against each other when they need to be working together. And the result will not be a healthy socioeconomically diverse mix.

The only people it's good for are the property owners who are expecting to sell later and the newcomers who are luxuriating in their cheap rents.

whynot_31 · October 2010

krowonhill wrote:

The only people it's good for are the property owners who are expecting to sell later and the newcomers who are luxuriating in their cheap rents.

Really?

The crime rates don't fall?

The schools don't improve?

New people with more money don't spend money at local stores, who in turn make more profit?

There aren't more local jobs?

Renters who have long term leases (remember how many of those there are in the city?) don't benefit from all of the above?

As mentioned over and over on Page 2 of the "rent is too damn high" thread, people who wish to control rent and control where people live are well meaning ....they just don't understand how the market works, and the effects of their actions of the long term.

...You have yet to argue that a socioeconomic mix is healthy or necessary. ....simply stating that Jane Jacobs said it should be true isn't going to cut it. I've read her stuff, I'm down with the utopia she envisions, but she didn't offer any roadmap as to how to get there.

Please convince me what mix is correct, and how such a mix should be created and maintained?

....Perhaps like you, I think Sesame Street is a great show. I also think we've made really good progress over the last 50 or so years.

Yea, let's keep it going. How do we make the diversity and singing happen without creating the side effects that the other thread discusses on Page 2? http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=59810&start=90

I'm open minded, but do want to know how we are going to get there. Good intentions can and do result in harm.....

Let's all sing: Won't you tell me how to get? How to get to Sesame Street? How to get to Sesame Street...."

brooklytrini · October 2010

I would recommend Crown Street over Carroll, and also its not CH South, if anything its pretty much North, Utica Ave would be South, but yes, there are supermarkets, Korean markets, the post office on Empire, pharmacies inbetween, mostly everything you would need, and you should be good in the area as long as you know a few ppl and keep to yourself.

brooklytrini · October 2010

readymade1 wrote: This is extremely helpful everyone - please keep it up!

Ironically enough (and I'll refrain from posting on the 'spitting thread' here, but...) I once was spat on riding the 2 train through East Flatbush, and was told in no uncertain terms by said spitter that my race was the reason...

So no, not specifically related to Crown Heights, but as a native New Yorker, it's an extreme example of the racial/cultural tension I've always been around to some degree.

I think it's fairly impossible to avoid the politics of difference living here. However, I would hope to live somewhere in which racial/cultural differences are actually appreciated, or at least where neighbors can engage in some sort of cross-cultural dialogue as active members in their community. I sincerely hope that's not too much to hope for.

Thats crazy to hear about getting spit on, I have no problem with any type of people.

ishtar · October 2010

BrooklyTrini wrote: I would recommend Crown Street over Carroll, and also its not CH South, if anything its pretty much North, Utica Ave would be South, but yes, there are supermarkets, Korean markets, the post office on Empire, pharmacies inbetween, mostly everything you would need, and you should be good in the area as long as you know a few ppl and keep to yourself.

Anything south of Eastern Parkway is Crown Heights South. Eastern Parkway is situated in an east/west direction. Utica Avenue runs north/south, so nothing can be south of Utica (south ON Utica, yes, south OF utica, no).

vaportrail · October 2010

we bought a brownstone on the block of lincoln place between nostrand and new york several years ago. The block is fabulous. There is a well organized block association that has been operating for 30 years and the block has wonderful long term home-owners and a good influx of new down to earth owners and renters. On a summer night, there are kids of many colors playing on the street together. The subways are great and nostrand ave is actually not that bad, and quite convenient in terms of staples and the take out food is improving.

readymade1 · November 2010

Thanks again for all the responses.
As we are considering a place right down the block, can anyone by any chance comment on the Crown Gardens apartment building complex - in regard to noise and general maintenance, mainly - either those who live in close proximity or residents?
It actually seems like a very nice, well-kept building, but it's such an anomaly amongst the generally low-slung apartment buildings and row houses of CHS, that I'm a bit curious.

homeowner · November 2010

Crown Gardens, is that the apartment complex on Nostrand?

whynot_31 · November 2010

Crown Gardens is on the corner of Nostrand and Carroll.

As per the attached, the city seems to report it was developed as an owner occupied Mitchel Lama coop (a form of affordable housing for the middle income).

In my opinion, these properties should not be confused with NYCHA, or even Section 8. [I'm speaking in generalities, I've never been in this specific development].

http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/downloads/pdf/MLLIST.pdf

You could pull up the blocks' crime report on Everyblock if wanted.

http://nyc.everyblock.com/crime/

homeowner · November 2010

Yeah, that's actually a pretty cool place. I know some older people who live in there and they say the tenants are very invested in the property and spend a lot of time keeping it in shape. I get the feeling that its a lot of really long-time residents in there.

brooklytrini · November 2010

lol I live right across the street from there, well on the other block.

It's a pretty much ok area, not too much violence, as long as people know you live there you would be good.

There are a good amount of cops on Nostrand during the nighttime.

The only thing is the kids from Medgar Evers in the afternoon time when they make a lot of noise etc.

Homebuying in Crown Heights South

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