Would Walmart be good for Brooklyn?

That's really far for people who don't have cars

maybe this is an over-obvious point, but Brooklyn is one of the last places in America where small business retail ("mom and pop shops") are still viable. So anything working against that would be a bad thing, in my opinion. The counter argument is OMG CHEAP STUFF!

I'm not a fan of big box stores or the affect they can have on communities or the environment. However there are already many of these stores in nyc, Costco, Kmart, BJ's, Target, and more. It's another case of capitalistic cannibalism. It's impossible for smaller shops to compete with places like Walmart in terms of pricing on most products. Many people can't afford to support local when toilet paper is twice the price at the corner store or supermarket.

I'm sure they'll give the go-ahead to build, but I certainly won't be shopping there.

Have any of you guys been to Gateway? Its got a BJ's, a Staples, a Super Target, a Home Depot, a Famous Footwear, a Marshall's, a Circuit City, Old Navy and Kids R'Us. Walmart would not steal business away from local stores if it locates at Gateway, its going to cannibalize business from another big chain stores. Gateway is probably the best location to assure that small mom and pop stores don't get affected. The problem comes when Walmart uses their success at Gateway as a reason to open a second store in downtown Brooklyn.

been to gateway since it open, beats the costco in brooklyn cause its alot less people at the bj's(well almost as bad, but easier to find a shopping cart slightly).

the poll showing that brooklyn wants wal-mart was commissioned by wal-mart. i would take it's results with a grain of salt and a margarita underneath.

I confess to Costco runs for dog food, cat food and paper products. I confess to Mom & Pop runs for munchies, veggies and "last minute damn I forgot" items. Would I buy anything at Wal-Mart? Not sure - pretty much have it covered under options A & B. Do not buy toiletries at Costco or local mom & pop stores (drug store by work) and would never buy clothing at any of the above.

As for arguments on wages paid, exactly how many employees do mom & pop stores have and what average wage do those employees earn? Were the bodegas annihilated by the larger supermarkets in certain areas? Not as I can see. The debate on whether whether Wal-Mart will annihilate the local mom & pop store or bodega seems pretty much the same.

I think most of us agree that Walmart puts small businesses who directly compete with it out of business. ...I find it kind of sad that NYC and Hunter spent money to create a report to tell us what we already knew: Never fight someone larger than yourself.

Assuming the effect on small business and wages aren't disputed, the job of those opposed to Walmart's entry is to show why we should prevent one specific company from entering the NYC market, how under current law such an action would be legal or enforceable.

[I have yet to hear this argrument from Walmart's detractors]

To the contrary, banning Walmart to protect the owners and employees of small businesses might be a valid technique if we were on an island and they were the only predator of our endangered species, but we are not on an island. Such protectionism and isolationism won't work as a result.

There are already many things currently against the small business owner; Things far larger than even Walmart, as huge as it is.....

Like small towns in America, small businesses are destined to gradually disappear unless they can find a way to effectively compete and adapt.

Wait.

Are we supposed to rescue small towns as well? I hear they have quaint ways of life, and friendly diners. I hear you can have a backyard, basement, garage and a driveway.

Over the past 30 years, many treasurers of small towns learned that the only thing worse than having a Walmart locate in their town, was having a Walmart locate in the town beside them.

The government of NYC faces this same choice.

Although you may hate the trends toward lower paying jobs and corporatization that Walmart champions, the longer that NYC fails to adapt the longer the cost of living in NYC is inflated relative to places that have have one.

Every time a tax dollar leaves NYC I cry. Target has helped the city government and its residents tremendously.

If small business owners and their employees can't adapt and compete, they will disappear. Like it or not, there isn't much you, I or anyone else can do about it.

Although you may hate the trends toward lower paying jobs and corporatization that Walmart champions, the longer that NYC fails to adapt the longer the cost of living in NYC is inflated relative to places that have have one.

are you defining cost of living mostly by how much things cost at delis vs walmarts?

Walmart doesn't pay people livable wages or provide them with affordable health care.

This creates great strain on the NYC population both in income, budgets and quality of life.

If WalMart wants to come to Brooklyn I would require Walmart to be unionized and to put a ten-foot tall picture of Jared Loughner in the front of the store with the caption "Walmart sells large amounts of bullets to people like this."

:yawn: @ the wild anti Walmart brigade.

I know people who work in those mom and pop shops. The majority of them are immigrants who have little to no rights and are in no way being paid a living wage. The idea that these mom and pop shops are some worker's utopia is laughable; if anything they might be WORSE for workers than Walmart. Walmart workers at least have protection through minimum wage, child labor and other laws, and the volume of workers to possibly unionize. Mom & Pop shop workers have none of that, as it's all cash.

And Walmart didn't shoot those people, that crazy kid did. If it were up to ppl like Walkathon, we'd all be in straight jackets and rubber rooms under the caring & all knowing watch of the American government. No thanks, the whole point of America is freedom, even if it comes with some uncertainty and danger

When I go to Target, I see a lot of good things for the local economy. I see people earning a living, I see a paying tenant in a key piece of real estate, I see people gaining access to relatively affordable goods of some measurable quality. I see a lot of local tax revenue being generated (through the protocols & scrutiny of legal business practices; as opposed to the all-cash operations of the mom and pop shop), yadda yadda. Now is it perfect? Of course not. But if there were no Target, what would those employees' alternative be? Someone has to work retail, and IMO it's better for everyone involved when said retailer is a transparent tax paying law abiding corporation like Target, as opposed to a mom & pop shop, which could be great + fair or a total slum.

Good points.

....yes.

At the moment, NYC has lower unemployment rates than the national average, and (as a result of the competition for employees) the service sector has to strive much harder to fill its ranks with qualified, polite employees in NYC.

If Walmart finds that it is only able to attract the city's most unskilled, it may very well raise its wages in order to provide its customers with a satisfactory shopping experience.

....it's not like the managers at Walmart are somehow more "evil" than those at Lowe's or Target. If those places could pay their employees less and still run good stores, they would. ...they don't pay more, or provide better working conditions out of some "generousity" or "responsibility" to their employees.

Given the "quality" of potential Walmart employees at minimum wage, it will be interesting to see if they can run a store that is as organized and "customer friendly" as their suburban ones. In my view, the Target at Atlantic Center has never managed to get up to the level of its less urban locations:

http://sites.target.com/site/en/spot/state_results.jsp?state=NY

The Atlantic Center Target is often (as homeowner puts it) and as we write frequently on this board: "a hot ass mess of ridiculous proportions".

BG, they wouldn't do it to be nice to their customers. They would do it because we wouldn't haul ourselves to Gateway Center if they didn't. You don't have to give them much "benefit of the doubt" to believe that they will want this new store to succeed: They have fought to have it built, and advertised to us for YEARS in preparation.

However, if you are right, and they don't step up to the task at hand:

a. The families with two kids in a minivan that would go to Gateway, will instead continue to haul themselves to a Walmart location just outside of the city, in Valley Stream or Westbury.

http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=&rx_title=com.wm.www.apps.storelocator.page.serviceLink.title.default&rx_dest=/index.gsp&sfrecords=50&sfsearch_city=&sfsearch_state=--&sfsearch_zip=11238&sftype_sel=-1&sfradius=50&x=16&y=9&continue=

b. The families who travel by bus will will continue to go to various stores that will compete with Walmart, such as the NYC located Costco and Target stores.

Perhaps as a result of having no nearby competition, the Target at Atlantic Center is one of the companies highest grossing stores despite being messy and out of stock when I brave shopping there.

It would be interesting to see if they have raised wages to try and improve the store's performance. ...I have seen some small improvements in the store since it first opened.

However, I'm confident that the store will genuinely improve once some competition comes in the form of the additional "big boxes" that will be created as part of the Atlantic Yards Project.

As Homeowner points out, Walmart won't have this luxury of time ....Gateway has competition already nearby.

I would quadruple the number of publicly subsidized community colleges.

YES.

And, like you guys said, trade schools.

Trade Schools.

Trade Schools.

Trade Schools.