Does the latest terrorist plot make you wonder.....
Does this latest terrorist plot make anyone wonder if living here is such a hot idea? I can't help but think when we are ALWAYS the target if I should cash in on my mega profits made from my Park Slope coop, which would now be profits from my Kensington House and flee to another city before they do get us again. Paranoid? Realistic? Is it really so much better here than say, Philadelphia? And what happens when they do finally get the subway...is it worth it?
Just curious. Today I keep asking myself what is keeping me here.
Just curious. Today I keep asking myself what is keeping me here.
Comments
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Livin' anywhere else than here in NYC, fudge that, life isn't WORTH living then.
I refuse to give in to fear.
Yes, I know every day we take a chance getting on the subway, going over the bridge, but shit, I feel the odds are greater of my getting hit by a car and dying, getting hit with some uncureable disease....and so on.
My point is our lives can end any given moment, for any given reason. live life now to the fullest, to the "extreme", here in NYC. Lived here all my life, plan on dying here as well.
You wanna sell your pad and reap the benefits for finacial reasons, bravo! but don't do it for fear of a terrorist plot. -
even if they did get to blow up the planes. it would be a drop in the bucket. more people die in car accidents every year.
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armchair_warrior wrote: even if they did get to blow up the planes. it would be a drop in the bucket. more people die in car accidents every year.
I guess I was just thinking that NY is their target and they will hit NY again---no question on that. The last time was obviously awful but on a selfish note--Those of us in Brooklyn were breathing in dust and fumes that will probably be taking 10-15 years off our lives from some of the recent EPA studies trickling quietly out. Since I am 40, I suddenly see those 10 years are kind of important! I kind of don't want another 10 lopped off! -
kensingtonmom wrote: Those of us in Brooklyn were breathing in dust and fumes that will probably be taking 10-15 years off our lives from some of the recent EPA studies trickling quietly out.
Certainly no one will be able to prove this either way for another 50 years, but this seems to me to be a ridiculous claim. -
Carnivore wrote:
They aren't saying specifically 10 years (that was my guess) but they are saying cancer from asbestos and some of the other carcinogens that were in the air those first couple weeks and blowing into Brooklyn.
Certainly no one will be able to prove this either way for another 50 years, but this seems to me to be a ridiculous claim. -
Carnivore wrote: [quote=kensingtonmom]Those of us in Brooklyn were breathing in dust and fumes that will probably be taking 10-15 years off our lives from some of the recent EPA studies trickling quietly out.
Certainly no one will be able to prove this either way for another 50 years, but this seems to me to be a ridiculous claim.
well, I guess I should be dead already then (insert "GAWD FORBID" here)
closing in on 38, minus the 10-15 years for what happened in 2001, minus, oh I don't know how many years for my first job (when I was 14 years old) working in a dry cleaner sucking in perk for 3 years.....then, oh say another 10 years for working in the darkroom for about 20 years not using thongs or gloves.....damn, then there's all that drinking I do. man, I'm fucked. I dont have a calculator but at this rate, I may croak tomorrow...which leads me to my original comment..... -
After enjoying life in the New York metro area for decades, my pal and his wife recently moved to Colorado, reasoning that soon all of Manhattan would be underwater due to a hurricane.
Another friend’s father, a man from Upstate New York with no interest in city living, had the ghastly luck of having an annual business meeting in one of the World Trade Center’s Twin Towers on 9/11.
And I swear to you, I once knew a boy from the country who was walking down a country road and, I swear to you, was killed by a flying cow that had been hit by a speeding car.
When your number is up, your number is up.
I like to think that as a drinker without a car living in a pedestrian community, I’m decreasing the likelihood of dying – or killing someone – in an alcohol–related car accident . SUVs speeding around Grand Army Plaza scare me more than any terrorist threat/ -
armchair_warrior wrote: even if they did get to blow up the planes. it would be a drop in the bucket. more people die in car accidents every year.
I totally agree with you, Arm. -
Anonymous wrote: After enjoying life in the New York metro area for decades, my pal and his wife recently moved to Colorado, reasoning that soon all of Manhattan would be underwater due to a hurricane.
I posted the above, but was "logged out."
Another friend’s father, a man from Upstate New York with no interest in city living, had the ghastly luck of having an annual business meeting in one of the World Trade Center’s Twin Towers on 9/11.
And I swear to you, I once knew a boy from the country who was walking down a country road and, I swear to you, was killed by a flying cow that had been hit by a speeding car.
When your number is up, your number is up.
I like to think that as a drinker without a car living in a pedestrian community, I’m decreasing the likelihood of dying – or killing someone – in an alcohol–related car accident . SUVs speeding around Grand Army Plaza scare me more than any terrorist threat/ -
Anonymous wrote: [quote=armchair_warrior]even if they did get to blow up the planes. it would be a drop in the bucket. more people die in car accidents every year.
I totally agree with you, Arm.
me again -- it's hard to stay "logged in" for some reason. -
If our great nation of oil and cars featured mote cities that were truly pedestrian oriented, with easy, affordable access to true community centers where people could gather and interact…if other American towns housed arts and culture venues, restaurants serving ethnic foods from around the globe, and cafes sparked by intellectual conversation, all within walking distance from home, I’d be delighted to leave Brooklyn and explore these exciting American cities. A vision of a ghostly silent suburbia, tidy houses placed on lifeless manicured lawns, surrounded by a fortress of Applebees, Office Depot, Lowe's, WalMart, Dick's Sporting Goods, and Circuit City frightens me. I was fortunate to go to Europe once in my life and see the narrow streets of cities that were created before cars. It blew my mind away.
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Anonymous wrote: If our great nation of oil and cars featured mote cities that were truly pedestrian oriented, with easy, affordable access to true community centers where people could gather and interact…if other American towns housed arts and culture venues, restaurants serving ethnic foods from around the globe, and cafes sparked by intellectual conversation, all within walking distance from home, I’d be delighted to leave Brooklyn and explore these exciting American cities. A vision of a ghostly silent suburbia, tidy houses placed on lifeless manicured lawns, surrounded by a fortress of Applebees, Office Depot, Lowe's, WalMart, Dick's Sporting Goods, and Circuit City frightens me. I was fortunate to go to Europe once in my life and see the narrow streets of cities that were created before cars. It blew my mind away.
Please--there are cities with ethnic food and interesting people. Even the small city I grew up in Upstate has every kind of food and three important collections of art. I get really annoyed by that New York Centric point of view--it is arrogant. Maybe you should get on a bus and explore some other cities because you might be surprised to meet diverse people everywhere. -
kensingtonmom wrote: [quote=Anonymous]If our great nation of oil and cars featured mote cities that were truly pedestrian oriented, with easy, affordable access to true community centers where people could gather and interact…if other American towns housed arts and culture venues, restaurants serving ethnic foods from around the globe, and cafes sparked by intellectual conversation, all within walking distance from home, I’d be delighted to leave Brooklyn and explore these exciting American cities. A vision of a ghostly silent suburbia, tidy houses placed on lifeless manicured lawns, surrounded by a fortress of Applebees, Office Depot, Lowe's, WalMart, Dick's Sporting Goods, and Circuit City frightens me. I was fortunate to go to Europe once in my life and see the narrow streets of cities that were created before cars. It blew my mind away.
Please--there are cities with ethnic food and interesting people. Even the small city I grew up in Upstate has every kind of food and three important collections of art. I get really annoyed by that New York Centric point of view--it is arrogant. Maybe you should get on a bus and explore some other cities because you might be surprised to meet diverse people everywhere.
but on the other side of the spectrum, I lived in a large city in NC for 9 years before moving here and it was exactly like what the original poster stated- no diversity, totally egocentric people, cookiecutter modular homes, tons of traffic no good food or culture outside of the "southern"ness of it (which isnt even a culture in itself unless you count the lives of rich plastic women as "culture.")
It was sickening. This city is a breath of fresh air in that way- those plastic-molded cities DO exist, I can assure you -
kensingtonmom wrote: [quote=Anonymous]If our great nation of oil and cars featured mote cities that were truly pedestrian oriented, with easy, affordable access to true community centers where people could gather and interact…if other American towns housed arts and culture venues, restaurants serving ethnic foods from around the globe, and cafes sparked by intellectual conversation, all within walking distance from home, I’d be delighted to leave Brooklyn and explore these exciting American cities. A vision of a ghostly silent suburbia, tidy houses placed on lifeless manicured lawns, surrounded by a fortress of Applebees, Office Depot, Lowe's, WalMart, Dick's Sporting Goods, and Circuit City frightens me. I was fortunate to go to Europe once in my life and see the narrow streets of cities that were created before cars. It blew my mind away.
Please--there are cities with ethnic food and interesting people. Even the small city I grew up in Upstate has every kind of food and three important collections of art. I get really annoyed by that New York Centric point of view--it is arrogant. Maybe you should get on a bus and explore some other cities because you might be surprised to meet diverse people everywhere.
I understand where you both are coming from, however, I have to laugh...cause, if I got on the bus you told guest to take, and took it to my mother in law's house in upstate NY (close to Binghampton) he basically described where I'd be going to.
Let's all keep in mind we live in the city of NY. Anywhere outside of any given city would be just that. Doesn't make it wrong, just a different way if life. 'sup to you how you want to live it.
I like my life right now, very happy with where I live and how I'm living. -
move to Philadelphia? i may as well be dead
now. if you were talking Barcelona... that'd be worth a thought... -
It never occured to me to leave New York after 911, and it never occurred to me to leave yesterday. There is nowhere else I would want to be most of my days.
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Subject: Re: Does the latest terrorist plot make you wonder.....
kensingtonmom wrote: Does this latest terrorist plot make anyone wonder if living here is such a hot idea?
No. -
kensingtonmom wrote:
I walked from downtown Brooklyn to get my kids in Carroll Gardens and then we walked to Park Slope and we were walking through the middle of that toxic cloud. I had bronchitis on and off for a year after that.
They aren't saying specifically 10 years (that was my guess) but they are saying cancer from asbestos and some of the other carcinogens that were in the air those first couple weeks and blowing into Brooklyn.
I do think it is kind of stupid to stay in NYC, knowing it is and will remain a target (no matter what the Dept. of Homeland Security may think). I love NYC but I think there are other places where I could live and be happy (though not the suburban wasteland where I grew up). -
trixieNYC wrote: I understand where you both are coming from, however, I have to laugh...cause, if I got on the bus you told guest to take, and took it to my mother in law's house in upstate NY (close to Binghampton) he basically described where I'd be going to.
Of course most of America is the land of box stores and suburban sprawl--but then there are the people who flock to the urban centers. New York is more and more becoming a city of wealth and moving towards poverty (according to the NY Times three weeks ago) and in fact has the smallest middle class of any American city. Middle Class is income under 100k which fits most people I know who do anything creative. Maybe it seems unimportant to have a middle class--but a middle class is what keeps housing somewhat affordable and what makes public schools better.
Let's all keep in mind we live in the city of NY. Anywhere outside of any given city would be just that. Doesn't make it wrong, just a different way if life. 'sup to you how you want to live it.
I like my life right now, very happy with where I live and how I'm living. -
kensingtonmom wrote:
I don't understand your point, I'm sorry.
Of course most of America is the land of box stores and suburban sprawl--but then there are the people who flock to the urban centers. New York is more and more becoming a city of wealth and moving towards poverty (according to the NY Times three weeks ago) and in fact has the smallest middle class of any American city. Middle Class is income under 100k which fits most people I know who do anything creative. Maybe it seems unimportant to have a middle class--but a middle class is what keeps housing somewhat affordable and what makes public schools better.
I grew up in NYC, raised in a single parent household, my mother received no child support from dad. we struggled, yet, we made the best of things. fast forwarding to today, yes, I'm in the creative industry and, no, I make over a 100k salary. not boasting, just stating facts.
I feel because I live in this city, it afforded me the opportunity and options to make something of myself. I could go on with this however my dog is being a nuisance and I'm 2 steps from strangling him.
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Anonymous wrote: [quote=kensingtonmom]
I don't understand your point, I'm sorry.
Of course most of America is the land of box stores and suburban sprawl--but then there are the people who flock to the urban centers. New York is more and more becoming a city of wealth and moving towards poverty (according to the NY Times three weeks ago) and in fact has the smallest middle class of any American city. Middle Class is income under 100k which fits most people I know who do anything creative. Maybe it seems unimportant to have a middle class--but a middle class is what keeps housing somewhat affordable and what makes public schools better.
I grew up in NYC, raised in a single parent household, my mother received no child support from dad. we struggled, yet, we made the best of things. fast forwarding to today, yes, I'm in the creative industry and, no, I make over a 100k salary. not boasting, just stating facts.
I feel because I live in this city, it afforded me the opportunity and options to make something of myself. I could go on with this however my dog is being a nuisance and I'm 2 steps from strangling him.
sorry, this was me, wasn't logged in. I blame the dog. -
I moved into Manhattan from Stamford, CT on October 1st, 2001. I'm a vagabond, never living more than 2-3 years in one place (don't tell my landlord that! lol). When I moved in, people in CT and in my hometown just north of Westchester thought I was crazy.
I shut them up with a few sentences:
"Yes, it is true that terrorists attacked NYC. However, you know how they got there right? They flew down the Hudson, using the River as their guide. Just imagine as they were flying down the Hudson and saw Indian Point, and said, "Hmmmm, that might be a good target instead." Now who would be in trouble?"
You are not truly "safe" anywhere. I choose not to live in fear, and not to let fear take control of my life. -
Anonymous wrote: I don't understand your point, I'm sorry.
My point had nothing to do with terrorism--just sort of off the subject meandering. It is just a fact that in the past 10 years, the middle class is being squeezed out of NY. When you were raised here, there was still a middle class who was advocating for public schools, housing and other things that help raise people living in poverty up the economic ladder. That is disappearing making it harder to move up.
I grew up in NYC, raised in a single parent household, my mother received no child support from dad. we struggled, yet, we made the best of things. fast forwarding to today, yes, I'm in the creative industry and, no, I make over a 100k salary. not boasting, just stating facts.
If you make over 100k and are SINGLE you are doing o.k. But if you are raising children and living on 100k it is more of a struggle here. We are in the arts, we make well over 100k and with two kids, let me tell you.....we are BROKE a lot!!
Rose: Do you think it has anything to do with being a parent? KNowing we could be happy somewhere else (urban)? I guess I started wondering about my responsibility towards my kids yesterday and then started to realize how expensive it is becoming here. I started wondering why the hell am I staying here being a broke sitting duck? Is it fair to my kids? I don't know, that is something I am struggling with obviously. -
kensingtonmom wrote:
I think it goes both ways. If you let yourself really believe that we are in danger of another terrorist attack, then the only responsible thing to do is to get your kids out of here, right? On the other hand, once you have kids, you get so entrenched in your life that it seems like it would be impossible to move because the idea of trying to replicate all the systems that are in place (child care, school, afterschool programs, summer camp, etc. etc.) is so daunting. I feel like my kids are at the worst age to move because they are young teens, they have happy lives here with friends and good schools, and I think it would be incredibly disruptive to move them at that age. So, everything else being equal, you are weighing the certain disruption of a move against the vague possibility of something that you're desperately hoping won't ever happen again.
Rose: Do you think it has anything to do with being a parent? KNowing we could be happy somewhere else (urban)? I guess I started wondering about my responsibility towards my kids yesterday and then started to realize how expensive it is becoming here. I started wondering why the hell am I staying here being a broke sitting duck? Is it fair to my kids? I don't know, that is something I am struggling with obviously. -
kensingtonmom wrote: [quote=Anonymous]I don't understand your point, I'm sorry.
My point had nothing to do with terrorism--just sort of off the subject meandering. It is just a fact that in the past 10 years, the middle class is being squeezed out of NY. When you were raised here, there was still a middle class who was advocating for public schools, housing and other things that help raise people living in poverty up the economic ladder. That is disappearing making it harder to move up.
I grew up in NYC, raised in a single parent household, my mother received no child support from dad. we struggled, yet, we made the best of things. fast forwarding to today, yes, I'm in the creative industry and, no, I make over a 100k salary. not boasting, just stating facts.
If you make over 100k and are SINGLE you are doing o.k. But if you are raising children and living on 100k it is more of a struggle here. We are in the arts, we make well over 100k and with two kids, let me tell you.....we are BROKE a lot!!
Rose: Do you think it has anything to do with being a parent? KNowing we could be happy somewhere else (urban)? I guess I started wondering about my responsibility towards my kids yesterday and then started to realize how expensive it is becoming here. I started wondering why the hell am I staying here being a broke sitting duck? Is it fair to my kids? I don't know, that is something I am struggling with obviously.
then your struggle obviously has more to do with economics than terrorism. and making over 100k and being single, in my opinion is more than ok. but I'm not single, and I was only stating my own salary. I think the issue here is with that over 100k, what are your limits? Shit, I grew up "playing" with craypas and watercolors. because they were inexpensive for mom to buy and they would occupy me for hours. And now, I have such an appreciation for a dollar, for struggle and for what I have now. most important, never acting a victim.
I'm not going to accuse you or assume your kids have all the latest toys and eat filet mignon for dinner by no means. My point is you can get by, and have a good life AND learn values with less. AND your kids will appreciate what they have, what they've become because of that. -
trixieNYC wrote: I'm not going to accuse you or assume your kids have all the latest toys and eat filet mignon for dinner by no means. My point is you can get by, and have a good life AND learn values with less. AND your kids will appreciate what they have, what they've become because of that.
That is great that you are able to raise your family here and not feel any struggle--you must be making way above 100k and have a very low mortgage. Most of my friends with kids struggle--child care of any sort is expensive, finding a good school is getting harder, and private school is expensive if you don't get into a good public school.
My personal struggle is not about economics--I do think New York is a target more so then Buffalo or Pittsburgh. I have to decide how much of a threat is it for my kids and whether what we are all enjoying here is worth more than what the next attack will bring. There will obviously be another attack here and I don't believe I will die in that attack by any means--but will it be harder to leave (to sell what we own if we want to leave), will we breath in some new toxic fumes....whatever. -
I don't consider leaving because of terrorism - more because of the high price of living here!
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I think about this all the time, but I haven't left yet. Not because I believe "when your number's up, it's up" or that no place is more dangerous than any other -- it's just the old impossible juggling act of being settled vs. leaving, what you fear vs. what you love, and all the various lifestyle and economic factors that have nothing to do with terrorism.
I almost take a perverse comfort in the plot from yesterday: whether you live in the city or the burbs or the sticks, you gotta take the same airplanes to Europe. But it would be self-deceptive to say that, therefore, New York is in no more danger than anywhere else. If Osama gets the nuclear weapon he's been dreaming about, he's not going to blow up Omaha to show the world what an outside-the-box thinker he is. These guys are uncomplicated--they like bigbigbig.
Flying cows notwithstanding, I would think most of us recognize NYC is in greatest danger of terror strikes. I mean, is there anyone reading this board who was not disgusted when Homeland Security was spending all that $$$ to secure towns in Wyoming and petting farms in Indiana? And, while more people may die in auto accidents than in 9/11, terrorists only need to get lucky with a WMD once to change that equation.
Then again, if there's a bio-terror attack--perhaps more within terrorists' capacity--it could spread anywhere, and in some ways a city like NYC may be better prepared to deal with it.
Then again, then again, then again... and that's why I'm still here. Too many then agains. Yeah, I tell myself that stuff about not letting terrorists run my life, and I even actually believe it in principle, but it's basically a noble-sounding rationalization for my indecisiveness. -
kensingtonmom - if you are scared to live here, then you should leave. You are right that there are a lot of great places to live in the world. But do remember that armchair_warrior and raw are right, you can die at any time from a million things and you are much more likely to die crossing the street then from a terrorist attack.
That being said, life should not be a struggle for nothing. If you don't appreciate what is great and unique about NYC, then what is the point?
Good luck and send postcards! -
the only place other than NYC I want to live right now is London. guess I'm well fucked, eh?
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