Does the latest terrorist plot make you wonder.....

kensingtonmom wrote: [quote=trixieNYC]I'm not going to accuse you or assume your kids have all the latest toys and eat filet mignon for dinner by no means. My point is you can get by, and have a good life AND learn values with less. AND your kids will appreciate what they have, what they've become because of that.

That is great that you are able to raise your family here and not feel any struggle--you must be making way above 100k and have a very low mortgage. Most of my friends with kids struggle--child care of any sort is expensive, finding a good school is getting harder, and private school is expensive if you don't get into a good public school.

My personal struggle is not about economics--I do think New York is a target more so then Buffalo or Pittsburgh. I have to decide how much of a threat is it for my kids and whether what we are all enjoying here is worth more than what the next attack will bring. There will obviously be another attack here and I don't believe I will die in that attack by any means--but will it be harder to leave (to sell what we own if we want to leave), will we breath in some new toxic fumes....whatever.

nope, no family here unfortunately. not yet at any rate. I said I wasn't single. didnt say I have kids just yet. And my mortgage is a far cry from being low. and my point is I don't cry about it.
I'm just SO tired of the wah wah waaaaaaaahs. Do have idea idea HOW good you truly have it. You say you have a home that you're considering selling, you say you have a family and make somewhere in the ballpark of a 100k salary. Do you know HOW many people wish they could claim the same?
Count your blessings, realize you're fortunate and stop acting the victim.
Everyword of yours I've read so far is nothing short of that.
I'm sorry for sounding combative, but, I truly am tired of listening to people who, no matter how much they have it is never enough.

Subject: Re: Does the latest terrorist plot make you wonder.....

kensingtonmom wrote: Does this latest terrorist plot make anyone wonder if living here is such a hot idea?

it makes me think that living in AMERICA isn't such a great idea. that being an american is becoming downright embarrassing.

Subject: Re: Does the latest terrorist plot make you wonder.....

Why in the world would this plot make you feel embarassed to be an American? That makes no sense whatsoever.

brooklynpotter wrote: [quote=kensingtonmom]Does this latest terrorist plot make anyone wonder if living here is such a hot idea?

it makes me think that living in AMERICA isn't such a great idea. that being an american is becoming downright embarrassing.

Subject: Re: Does the latest terrorist plot make you wonder.....

brooklynpotter wrote: [quote=steve]Why in the world would this plot make you feel embarassed to be an American? That makes no sense whatsoever.

[quote=brooklynpotter][quote=kensingtonmom]Does this latest terrorist plot make anyone wonder if living here is such a hot idea?

it makes me think that living in AMERICA isn't such a great idea. that being an american is becoming downright embarrassing.

because we (our government) helped create these terrorists and fostered their hatred towards us.

well, keep in mind that "our government" isn't America...WE are America.

no. more. whining. TODAY. Trixie is gonna open up a can of whoopass on ANYONE who whines today about ANYTHING.

Anonymous wrote: If our great nation of oil and cars featured mote cities that were truly pedestrian oriented, with easy, affordable access to true community centers where people could gather and interact…if other American towns housed arts and culture venues, restaurants serving ethnic foods from around the globe, and cafes sparked by intellectual conversation, all within walking distance from home, I’d be delighted to leave Brooklyn and explore these exciting American cities. A vision of a ghostly silent suburbia, tidy houses placed on lifeless manicured lawns, surrounded by a fortress of Applebees, Office Depot, Lowe's, WalMart, Dick's Sporting Goods, and Circuit City frightens me. I was fortunate to go to Europe once in my life and see the narrow streets of cities that were created before cars. It blew my mind away.

Except for the tidy lawns, I believe Brooklyn is slowly becoming what you scares you.

Flexichick wrote: I'm already taking steps for my EU passport just to have more options.

Not because I'm afraid of NYC (yes, we're a target, a BIG ONE, but that's the trade-off for all of the great things we have here), but because I have been interested in living in a Spanish-speaking country for a long time. Not sure what that's going to mean for me - Mexico, S. America, Spain (hey, NYC is a Spanish-speaking country of its own!), but at least having more travel and work options will make things easier if I decide to do it.

I'm pretty psyched about the whole "skilled worker" stuff in the EU and all over the Americas. I can get the fuck outta here easily.

Livetotravel wrote: Get qualified in ESL - you can go and live anywhere.

don't think that pays as well as my sooper seekrit skillz.

if you're scared, then move. Let someone else not scared off by terrorists take your place.

Seriously, if you're all freaked out, you're just letting terrorists win.

I'm still trying to figure out where Kensingtonmom was whining about money or why this discussion would come down to a simplistic "Brooklyn: Love It or Get the Hell Out." Why did this thread turn into an attack on KM? I think her initial question was worth discussing. It's not a moral failing to worry about terrorism.

kensingtonmom wrote: Does this latest terrorist plot make anyone wonder if living here is such a hot idea?

Nope, not for a second. The risk of harm from a terrorist attack is still very, very, very, very small, here or anywhere. (Although I live in gritty Gowanus and not the Slope, which might make me a less desirable target. ) Armchair Warrior is right when he mentioned that more people are killed in car accidents yearly than by international terrorism.

From John Mueller's excellent essay on terrorism (PDF - http://psweb.sbs.ohio-state.edu/faculty/jmueller/6PROPS.PDF):

"In fact, until 2001 far fewer Americans were killed in any grouping of years by all forms of international terrorism than were killed by lightning. And except for 2001, virtually none of these terrorist deaths occurred within the United States itself. Indeed, outside of 2001, fewer people have died in America from international terrorism than have drowned in toilets.

Even with the September 11 attacks included in the count, however, the number of Americans killed by international terrorism since the late 1960s (which is when the U.S. State Department began its accounting) is about the same as the number killed over the same period by lightning—or by accident-causing deer or by severe allergic reactions to peanuts. In almost all years the total number of people worldwide who die at the hands of international terrorists is not much more than the number who drown in bathtubs in the United States."

The crux of Mueller's argument is that more damage comes from hasty overreaction to terrorism than from the actual terrorist attacks themselves. Terrorism plays on our collective inability to appropriately assess risk -- i.e., it makes us terrified of things that, rationally, are in fact only a very, very, very small danger to us.

What makes me crazy is seeing the reaction by government officials to terrorist attacks, which essentially seems to be to ramp up everyone's already heightened sense of fear. I mean, the statement from Scotland Yard describes this week's foiled plot as an attempt to commit "mass murder on an unimaginable scale."

Unimaginable? I hardly think so. Horrific, yes; inhuman, yes; but certainly not unimaginable.

In this instance, the plot was stopped and no lives were lost, but has anyone tried to fly anywhere in the last few days? There is no question that the current heightened airline screening policies are going to have an economic impact, in terms of delayed/missed/cancelled flights. And both the British and American government seem to be gleefully fueling the fear that leads to this sort of economic damage.

And since theoretically all liquids are now a dangerous substance, I wonder what the explanation will be when a week/month/year from now we are suddenly allowed to carry them onboard again? It certainly won't be because airlines realized that security theater of this nature does little to actually address the risk of terrorism.

bripod wrote:
In almost all years the total number of people worldwide who die at the hands of international terrorists is not much more than the number who drown

Well, that settles it, from now on, I'm only showering. Now more baths!

KD, there are MANY times I'm embarrassed to be an American. Why?

- because we voted for Bush. Not once, but twice! (yah yah, election fraud, Florida, hanging chads, etc.). A man with no foreign relations experience whatsoever (who grew up a multi-millionaire and didn't even have the INTEREST to leave the country (only ONCE) before he became President).

- because when Clinton was in office he was impeached because of something that had nothing to do with his ability to run a government (shit husband? yep, but leaders all over the world have mistresses and nobody lets it get in the way of govermment politics)

- because I've been all around the world and can really say that American tourists are truly more obnoxious and disrespectful of culture and customs than any other tourists (I was in Mexico once where there were 4 grossly overweight fanny-pack wearing tourists saying (in English) "Just give the bartender 5 pesos instead of 50. He'll never know the difference"? WTF? First of all, the bartender spoke WAY better English than they would have spoken ANY second language, and of course he's going to know the difference in his own currency!). The "Ugly American" is a stereotype, but like many stereotypes, there are elements of truth to it.

- because even this country was founded on democracy and the right to vote, more people vote for American Idol than for President (and forget about the local elections!) and now the concept of "democracy" is used by us to force it down the throats of other countries

- because international law is something we force on other countries and then ignore when it's inconvenient to us



Oh, man, I can go on and on.

But, I still think it's a better place to live than MANY other places in the world.

I still think our standard of living makes most of us comfortable. Sure, we all want nicer cars, places to live, vacations, etc, but at least most of us (yes, we still have a big poverty problem) are not picking through rubble and covered in flies.

Because we can still basically tell the government to fuck off to their face and can think and say most of the things we want to without being afraid of being killed for it.

And that's why I stay.

But, as I said, there are MANY times when the actions of our country embarrass me. Should I not be embarrassed? Should I just trust them to always do the right thing?

When I want to change something, I vote, I write letters, I try to do things to make it different.

Let the shit-slinging begin!

Flexichick wrote: KD, there are MANY times I'm embarrassed to be an American. Why?

- because we voted for Bush. Not once, but twice! (yah yah, election fraud, Florida, hanging chads, etc.). A man with no foreign relations experience whatsoever (who grew up a multi-millionaire and didn't even have the INTEREST to leave the country (only ONCE) before he became President).

- because when Clinton was in office he was impeached because of something that had nothing to do with his ability to run a government (shit husband? yep, but leaders all over the world have mistresses and nobody lets it get in the way of govermment politics)

- because I've been all around the world and can really say that American tourists are truly more obnoxious and disrespectful of culture and customs than any other tourists (I was in Mexico once where there were 4 grossly overweight fanny-pack wearing tourists saying (in English) "Just give the bartender 5 pesos instead of 50. He'll never know the difference"? WTF? First of all, the bartender spoke WAY better English than they would have spoken ANY second language, and of course he's going to know the difference in his own currency!). The "Ugly American" is a stereotype, but like many stereotypes, there are elements of truth to it.

- because even this country was founded on democracy and the right to vote, more people vote for American Idol than for President (and forget about the local elections!) and now the concept of "democracy" is used by us to force it down the throats of other countries

- because international law is something we force on other countries and then ignore when it's inconvenient to us



Oh, many, I can go on and on.

But, I still think it's a better place to live than MANY other places in the world.

I still think our standard of living makes most of us comfortable. Sure, we all want nicer cars, places to live, vacations, etc, but at least most of us (yes, we still have a big poverty problem) are not picking through rubble and covered in flies.

Because we can still basically tell the government to fuck off to their face and can think and say most of the things we want to without being afraid of being killed for it.

And that's why I stay.

But, as I said, there are MANY times when the actions of our country embarrass me. Should I not be embarrassed? Should I just trust them to always do the right thing?

When I want to change something, I vote, I write letters, I try to do things to make it different.

Let the shit-slinging begin!

brava

[quote="Flexichick"]KD, there are MANY times I'm embarrassed to be an American. Why?
- because we voted for Bush. Not once, but twice! [/qoute] not me!

- because I've been all around the world and can really say that American tourists are truly more obnoxious and disrespectful of culture and customs than any other tourists

I've been all over too, and lived in 2 countries outside of America. And I agree, many american tourists are obnoxious, REALLY obnoxious, but I can say the same for Ozzies, Brits, Spaniards, etc. I think we just noticed Americans more because they share our accent and seem more obnoxious.

Listen, I agree with you on most, if not all of your points. But that's no reason to be ashmaed of being American, it's more of a reason to go out and prove the sterotypes wrong. When you're abroad, let 'em know you're an America. I have a feeling your not obnioxious and people will notice that.