Bed Stuy Do or Buy?

What a great video... thanks for the post, Tsarina. I couldn't agree with your sentiments more. I can understand why the past few generations of Bed-Stuy (and other neighborhoods) are particularly sore about the recent waves of gentrification. It's affecting them directly right now, but it's so easy to forget those generations that paved the way before them. Aside from the wealthy who built the brownstones and estates we have today, there were generations of poor who worked directly or indirectly for them.

<img src="[img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/d78f7d99a3.jpg" alt="" />[/img]

My great-grandparents emigrated from Prussia in the 1890's with little to no money or knowledge of the language. Somehow they scraped together enough money to rent a storefront and run an auto repair shop. As time passed they experienced exactly the same pressure of rising rents and displacement and made their way to what was then very rural and inexpensive Nassau County. We really aren't treading any new waters these days, it's simply affecting different demographics.

I think the lesson to be learned is to not forget the past and maintain passion for the spread of information regarding the rich and interesting habits, traditions, cultures, etc. that came before you. This is what makes living in New York so unique and why people want to come here. It's really a disservice to our ancestors hard work and commitment to a better life if we simply sweep their memory under the carpet.

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1818255,00.html

can't find the one who was from Harlem and done the study of close enough .

First off, thank you for sharing the film nofay.

Bed Stuy has a varied history and will continue in that vein. I personally think that communities that embrace diversity are more pleasing and more pleasant to live in. All people, no matter their race, need decent housing. The reality is that they go where they can afford to go. Perhaps there should be more emphasis placed on homeownership. You can't be mad about someone else selling what was theirs to sell.

With that said, the young lady in the film mentioned having to move because her landlord kept raising the rent. I'm sorry, but I get so tired of people complaining about landlords raising the rent. Tenants don't seem to take into account the costs, amount of risk, responsibility, and accountability that a landlord must shoulder. Tenants don't often take into account the sacrifices that landlords may have had to make to be in a position to buy a property, especially those who are small property owners - not to mention the fact that it's the BANK and not the landlord who actual holds title to the house for the majority of the "so-called" ownership.

And that is one basic reason for gentrification. Taxes, repair bills, rising Insurance, oil and gas charges, and other increasing costs force landlords to raise rents. Longtime tenants cannot afford the newly increased rents, so they are replaced by people with higher incomes who can afford the higher rents.

The idea that people are being forced out of their homes is also prevalent among many young people in "the community." Parents allow children to think that it is the big bad boogey man landlord that is causing them to have to move. If someone hasn't paid their rent for a whole year - and believe me, in NYC, it happens more often than you might think - they have forced themselves out. Unfortunately, there are too many people who spend more time trying to game the system than taking the time to ensure their actual long term stability in the community that they claim to love so well. Instead of "scrimping and saving" as my grandmother would say, they spend it all on faux luxuries, with the rent ending up at the bottom of the to be paid list. If the laws didn't lean so heavily toward the tenants (decreasing the notion of entitlement) in NYC, I believe both landlord AND tenant would benefit. But perhaps that's off topic...

I know all tenants are not "gamers" and all landlords are not angels. I'm just saying if people want to hold on to their place, their so-called community, just as JerseyGuy said, they have to be willing to step up their game.

JerseyGuy00, do you really love your people if you would say some nonsense like this on a public messageboard? I've heard Asians complain about the gentrification of Chinatown, and we will definitely hear from the Indians once Queens becomes the new "it" place.

Furthermore, let's be clear. The white people buying up BedStuy and Harlem aren't able to do so because they prioritized. Often times its because- 1.their parents/grandparents/relatives are able to financially assist them 2. they tend to make more money and have better job prospects 3. they are offered better loan rates.

Lets not forget that black people just began to get equal rights a generation or so ago. Prior to that, they were denied home loans they qualified for, denied jobs they qualified for, denied the ability to live in nice neighborhoods where their homes could increase in value and equity. If my grandma could have bought a nice house on the Upper East Side 50 years ago, surely she'd have enough equity to take out a second mortgage to help me finance a brownstone in Bed Stuy.

The gentrifiers are opportunists and imperialist. If you're unsure, please ask the Native Americans how it works.

The beef should be with the landlords, not the gentrifiers

You figure a landlord has had a building + tenants for a few decades, and out of the blue they decide they want to double the rent to lure people who can pay & want to move to the neighborhood

How is that the people's fault

If people want to have a stake in their neighborhood, they have to take ownership of it like that lady w/the "M" last name I can't recall.

It takes financial prudence & hard work. Not to say it's all the people who get pushed out's fault, there's obviously a lot at play. But you look at all the 99.99APR payday loan and check cashing spots & liquor stores and stuff, it's clear where a lot of the money is going, as opposed to where it should be. So when the investments are made there instead of into ownership stakes in the neighborhood, the loss of control when the neighborhood becomes desirable to "outsiders" is beyond the control of people living there.

Cool The Kid said:

It takes financial prudence & hard work. Not to say it's all the people who get pushed out's fault, there's obviously a lot at play. But you look at all the 99.99APR payday loan and check cashing spots & liquor stores and stuff, it's clear where a lot of the money is going, as opposed to where it should be. So when the investments are made there instead of into ownership stakes in the neighborhood, the loss of control when the neighborhood becomes desirable to "outsiders" is beyond the control of people living there.

BOOOTSTRAAAPSSSSSSSS!!!!

I never cease to be amazed by the way you simplify and critique the lifestyles of the poor, as if it's REMOTELY as simple as choosing whether to cash your paycheck or pay a mortgage.

Pastoralia

Whenever people talk about "coexisting together", it's always in reference to neighborhoods like Harlem, BedStuy or Fort Greene. How many races/cultures are coexisting on the Upper East Side? Riverdale? Howard Beach? Can you imagine what would happen if blacks started moving into these neighborhoods en masse? Literally, close your eyes (pretend that racist renting and selling practices no longer exist) and imagine the drama and upheaval. Why is it okay for whites to self-segregate, but not blacks (who often do it in response to racism from whites)?

ntfool

I completely understand that you view yourself as just *one person* who wants to live in BedStuy, but please understand that you are a harbinger of a greater movement. When landlords see white people walking around, they realize that their neighborhood is "getting better" and decide to raise the rent, which is capitalistic and inconsiderate, but understandable.

When other white people see you walking around, or hear of your adventures in Negroville, they decide to venture out here as well.

And honestly, as awful as I may feel about discouraging you from living in the neighborhood of your dreams (or whatever), I feel ever worse for the people who have to leave the neighborhood that they grew up in. I feel sorry for my children, who I wanted to raise in BedStuy so that they could grow up without feeling that they were a "minority". I shudder to imagine BedStuy in 10 years, when my little black child will be looked at like a pesky hold-out from a bygone era.

Boygabriel said:

BOOOTSTRAAAPSSSSSSSS!!!!

I never cease to be amazed by the way you simplify and critique the lifestyles of the poor, as if it's REMOTELY as simple as choosing whether to cash your paycheck or pay a mortgage.

If you read my post as an indictment of ALL or even ANY poor people, you "didn't read it well enough".

goldengreyce said:

Pastoralia

Whenever people talk about "coexisting together", it's always in reference to neighborhoods like Harlem, BedStuy or Fort Greene. How many races/cultures are coexisting on the Upper East Side? Riverdale? Howard Beach? Can you imagine what would happen if blacks started moving into these neighborhoods en masse? Literally, close your eyes (pretend that racist renting and selling practices no longer exist) and imagine the drama and upheaval. Why is it okay for whites to self-segregate, but not blacks (who often do it in response to racism from whites)?

What would happen? Probably the same thing that has happened in various Long Island neighborhoods and other suburban enclaves that have seen upswings in the sizes of their black communities. The idea that there is a conscious & deliberate effort to keep black people out of certain neighborhoods is ridiculous... people, black, white, yellow, red, move to the places where they will get the most for their money.

It's 2011, you have to be smarter than this

goldengreyce said:

Cool The Kid

You're so right. I keep forgetting that racism is dead! Time for me to pack up and move to Bensonhurst (where someone once yelled at me on the street "You don't belong here") or Howard Beach.

Sad and unfortunate that something like that was shouted at you, but how is that any different than what you've essentially said to me here on this board with regard to my family's intended move to "your" neighborhood?

Racism is far from dead. But you playing into it isn't helping anyone, particularly yourself.

CTK-

I completely agree with you, but fear this thread could could quickly degenerate into a contest over who (blacks or whites) is more racist. Such conversations are never fruitful, and clearly their are ignorant people on both sides.

Based on my reading of her posts above, Goldengreyce seems to have concluded that her best response is to protect her kid from racist white people and raise him/her in an environment in which he/she is not a minority.

While I sympathize with goals, I also have some thoughts about how she is going about it.

For the sake of this conversation, I will assume that goldengreyce believes that "too many white people hate all blacks". [She may believe that ALL white people hate all blacks, but -for a moment- let's assume it is the former]

For the sake of this conversation, I will play a white guy who is in need of an apartment.

Ready?

Ok, in my role, my primary concern is to get an apartment. ...It is not to help goldengreyce raise her child. In fact, due to the present stigma around hating people solely based on their race, I may believe that I am free from such biases and ignorance.

In other words, I have deemed myself to not be among the "too many white people that hate all blacks". In addition to fulfilling my immediate need of "finding an affordable apartment", moving to Bed Stuy may even allow me to feel good about myself:

I may believe that by moving into a currently "black neighborhood", I can show people that not all members of my race are idiots.

All of of this is tempered by very real concerns about crime rates and whether I will feel welcomed in the community, but I have determined that my likelihood of being a victim of crime drops to a level I find acceptable if I do not buy or sell drugs, and am in bed most nights by 11 PM.

Based on the above, I sign a lease on a vacant apartment in Bed-Stuy and the neighborhood becomes "more white" by a unit of one.

Now let's imagine myself in the role goldengreyce.

She would love for that apartment to filled by a black person, and would like for it to be rented at the same rate the prior tenant paid. However, as discussed above, the landlord is going to naturally rent it for as much money as s/he can, and may have no preference whether that money comes from someone who is black or white. The first person who is willing to sign a lease for $1650 a month and passes the credit check, gets it.

Goldengreyce feels powerless; She is unable to stop the above and sees the neighborhood rents steadily increasing. Eventually, I see one of three things happening:

1. She gets priced out of her home and moves to a neighborhood with a rent she can afford (like me, in the scenario above). As a result of her preferences, she chooses a neighborhood that is black. However, because rents are increasing everywhere, she may find that she is only able to live in a neighborhood that is more violent and less nice that the one she is leaving. (If she owns her home, this scenario is only slightly different. I.E. She sells her home, but ends up in the same situation)

2. She is able to stay in apartment as a result of getting a promotion at work, or benefitting from some program that fixes her rent to a below market rate. She hates her new neighbors, and now can not afford to buy groceries locally because the prices (and perhaps quality) of the goods have gone up.

3. As you suggest, she can adapt her view of her new neighbors.

CTK-

To make a long story short, as an individual I perceive her as being powerless to stop the "changing demographics" (aka "gentrification") or her neighborhood. Barring threats of violence, I believe her requests to white people not take what they see as a good deal on an apartment will be ignored.

So, she must make some kind of decision, ad implement some kind of change.

I hope whatever she ends deciding to do is best for her kids.

Like you, I'd hate for her and her family to continue to be a victim of America's destructive cycle of hatred, AND I would hate it even more if I felt her responses caused the cycle to escalate.

Goldengreyce-

Please let me know if I described any aspect of the challenge you face incorrectly.

Thank you whynot_31 for at least trying to see my point of view.

Let me say this- I don't hate white people. To me, that seems pretty obvious but I need to get there right away.

My issue is that Bed-Stuy and Harlem are seen as sacred to many members of the African-American community. You can go to a black person in South Africa or a white person in Oregon and ask them what they associate Bed-Stuy or Harlem with, and it will be black people.This is our haven, a place where we can be ourselves free of double consciousness and not wear the mask.

I would never complain about gentrification in Brownsville, Crown Heights or East New York. On the contrary, I would sign up to lead tours of the neighborhood while touting the low rents and changing demographic.

Black people in America have been robbed of EVERYTHING. Robbed of our freedom, our men have been lynched, our women raped, our neighborhoods burned down, our schools underfunded. Now we are being chased out of the neighborhoods that we associate with our movements, our joys, our culture. Nothing is sacred to the people moving in, all they see is low rent and nearby train stations.

Cool The Kid

Am I perpetuating racism by wanting to preserve Bed-Stuy's culture? I would never yell anything malicious to a white/Asian/Hispanic/Indian person because at the end of the day, they're a person. But I guarantee you that in the same second that your friend was called a "cracker bitch" 20 black men were pulled over by cops for driving in a nice neighborhood, 8 black women were passed over for jobs because the HR company felt like they had enough black employees, 50 black kids weren't invited to slumber parties because their parents wouldn't approve, etc.

The fact that you would even equate that situation to the day-to-day struggle that blacks face shows that you are unable to see pass white privilege and entitlement.

Pardon me for wanting to shield my children from something that white people will NEVER be burdened with.