Moving Soon to Brooklyn
We are moving back to the East (thank goodness) in a month or so. I used to live in the Lower East Side (in the 80's) and now looking for a place in Brooklyn. I saw a beautiful apt. listed near Prospect Park. I was wondering if anyone could let me know if the area is okay. Since I lived in the LES, I can deal with some funkiness, just want to feel on the safe side. The address is 890 Flatbush Ave., Patio Gardens is the name. It looks like 5 high rises,. They have 24 hr. security.
Also How many minutes/stops is ParK Slope from the 1st stop in the city?
It looks like a great area. My b-friend bikes and it looks like a perfect combo of nature and city!
Thanks and have a Great 4th!
Kathie
Comments
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"near prospect park" can mean many things.
There's the Manhattan side of the park, Park Slope, which is beautiful (and pricey).
There's the top edge of the park, prospect heights, which is pretty, and not as pricey as park slope, but not as safe, either, especially as you get closer to Crown Heights
Then there's the bottom of the park and the non-manhattan side, which, judging from the address, is I think where this apartment building would be. This area is called "flatbush". From everything I've heard, its not that great in terms of both safety and amenities (bars, restaurants, etc).
I can't really tell you about the subway, since I'm not sure what line its on. Your realtor should be able to tell you what the nearest subway stop is, and the MTA website has full maps online.
I hope that's helpful. If real estate listings say 'near the park" but not park slope or prospect heights... its a good bet that the listing is in one of the less desirable areas near the park. Also, the non-park-slope side of the park is not as well maintained, well populated, or safe, which is important if you're going to be using the park in off-peak hours. -
Subject: Patio Gardens
Patio Gardens is on Flatbush between Lincoln Road and Maple Street in the area that is currently being called Prospect Lefferts but has also been called Prospect Lefferts Gardens and Lefferts Manor. It's basically directly across the park from Park Slope (the standard-bearer for yuppie Brooklyn). The neighborhood is mostly West Indian with a core of brownstones and limestones (row houses) with a very solidly integrated group of folks who have lived there for a long time. In a lot of ways, it's like Prospect Heights, except more West Indian.
I grew up in this neighborhood in the 70s and 80s (and my parents still live there) and while crime is down, the neighborhood is still a bit tough. But Patio Gardens is a big apartment complex that is right near the subway (Q and
and the park (1.5 blocks from each), so you wouldn't really have to worry about a long, scary, muggable walk from the subway.
The neighborhood does not have any of the yuppie niceties of Park Slope or Prospect Heights. You can't get a latte. But there's a good pizza place and a West Indian place and some fair take-out Chinese.
It is 5 stops from Manhattan (Canal Street).
I've been wondering for a long time (basically 30 years) how long it would take for gentrifiers to find this neighborhood so I'm interested that you fornd a listing for the apartment building. Would you let me know which real estate company listed it?
The neighborhood has a lot going for it, especially if you think you'll use the park and can live without easy access to latte and brie.
Feel free to send me a private message if you'd like to know more about the 'hood. -
Subject: that's PLG...
yes, that's Prospect Lefferts Gardens. It's a great, safe, convenient neighborhood, especially if you are a prospect park fan. Patio Gardens, incidentally, is a very well run complex from what I am told.
There are not too many amenities in the area, but there's enough to get by on. Not much by way of restaurants and nightlife, but it's much more affordable that some of the surrounding neighborhoods. It seems suddenly as though a lot of young, trendy-looking types are moving in around here - tons of gay people, too. -
Subject: also...
picking up on a previous response - the east side of prospect park IS safe, and the city is currently spending millions to bring it back to its former glory. if you believe that the ocean avenue side of the park is not nice and not safe, then you haven't been there in a while... it's quite gorgeous. -
Subject: Re: also...
guest wrote: picking up on a previous response - the east side of prospect park IS safe, and the city is currently spending millions to bring it back to its former glory. if you believe that the ocean avenue side of the park is not nice and not safe, then you haven't been there in a while... it's quite gorgeous.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't safe these days, I haven't heard of anyone getting mugged in ages (although many of the brownstones have been broken in to lately). I meant rather to emphasize the proximity of Patio Gardens to the subway (1.5 blocks). Maybe I was remembering walking home from the subway as a child in the 70s--that was kind of scary.
My parents still live in the neighborhood (on Lincoln Road--woo woo) and still know all their neighbors. They don't have a car and get around on the wide variety of public transportation options in that area.
Pation Gardens can be viewed on Apartments.com. It looks like a pretty good deal. It's always looked well kept up from the outside. I've never known a soul who lived there--I wonder who they are... -
Subject: Prospect-Lefferts Garden is the place many
will be kicking themselves for not getting into in a few years. That's if they aren't already. My mother (Af-Am not WI, btw) has lived in Patio Gardens for almost 20yrs. Like NYC it's had seen good times & bad. Currently the management has reversed it's policy of little to no maintainance in a bid to force long-term residents out and warehouse apts until they went co-op. Corcoran has that contract. The apts are HUGE and rent stabilized, a very good deal long-term. Currently long delayed repairs are now taking place.
After 16yrs in Ft Greene, my husband & I chose to buy in PLG. Being an inter-racial couple and starting our family it was where we felt the most comfortable. We looked for 2yrs before we found our house & home.
Could the area use a few more non-caribbean restuarants? Yes. Could the schools be better? Hell yes! Which offers a chance to get involved and make a difference. There are several strong neighborhood & block associations working to improve the area. Will you find a more racially or economically diverse & family-friendly nabe? I really doubt it. Housing purchase & rental prices are still at a level where one parent can consider stayiing home with the kids. The Brooklyn Children's Museum, Brooklyn Botanic Gardens, Brooklyn Museum Art, Prospect Park Widlife Center, etc are all within walking distance as well as many of Park Slope's & Prospect Heights' restuarants. Prospect-Lefferts Garden is a great family-friendly neighborhood with a quick commute to many Manhattan locations as well as the rest of Brooklyn. -
I read your great description of Prospect/Lefferts Garden and felt really sad, Nativegal, because that's exactly how people used to describe Prospect Heights.
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Lincoln Place between Flatbush and Ocean is known for its gang of drug dealers. An acquantance of ours owns a building (Family owned for over 25 years) on that block and he insists that it's crime infested. He has recently placed cameras on his bldgs that are directly accessible, by his tenants, via the net.
Like many neighborhoods that are not gentrified, it will require the migration of artists before it can transform itself into a safer neighborhood. After then the yuppies soon follow along with the gay community. If you fit the later profile, I suggest paying a bit more and residing on the PS side of the park -
Sorry, Lincoln Rd not Lincoln Place
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Anonymous wrote: Lincoln Place between Flatbush and Ocean is known for its gang of drug dealers. An acquantance of ours owns a building (Family owned for over 25 years) on that block and he insists that it's crime infested. He has recently placed cameras on his bldgs that are directly accessible, by his tenants, via the net.
I'm not sure if artists will flock there as there's little loft space. I agree that the block of Lincoln from Ocean to Flatbush is a mess of drug dens. The cops used to do the occasional sweep. I don't know if they do now.
Like many neighborhoods that are not gentrified, it will require the migration of artists before it can transform itself into a safer neighborhood. After then the yuppies soon follow along with the gay community. If you fit the later profile, I suggest paying a bit more and residing on the PS side of the park
I've known yuppies (although clearly not the yuppiest of yuppies) and gays who have lived in the neighborhood for the last 20 years (in the brownstones, not the apartments), and had very little problem.
The main tension in the neighborhood (perhaps not unlike PH) is that between those who live in brownstones, who tend to be homeowners (most of the brownstones are legally limited to one family) and the folks who live in the apartments which surround them. I do not have any personal info about the apartments, but can only imagine that the ones on the park must be nice as they have a view of the park, and I can't imagine a nicer thing. -
How interesting that residents know about this drug gang, but the cops do not? They do illegal and dangerous business in a very specific location, but can't be stopped by the authorities? Why? Is the situation just being ignored? Seems a little surveillence would gather enough evidence to shut them down, right? So no, as a normal, working, non-drug addicted person, you can't live there safely because the drug dealers do. Fucked up.
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OK. I really do not know much about this, but my impression is that the drug dealers run out of the apartment houses across the street from the subway entrance. They're not really out on the street or anything and the subway entrance is well-populated.
That being said, I haven't teken the subway at night from or to there in awhile. -
sje wrote: How interesting that residents know about this drug gang, but the cops do not? They do illegal and dangerous business in a very specific location, but can't be stopped by the authorities? Why? Is the situation just being ignored? Seems a little surveillence would gather enough evidence to shut them down, right? So no, as a normal, working, non-drug addicted person, you can't live there safely because the drug dealers do. Fucked up.
Yeah, right? There's a lot of that in Brooklyn it seems. Is it graft? Is it by doing nothing and nobody making noise, the crime stats are artificially kept down, thereby making everyone look better? It's sure fucking disturbing and disheartening, whatever the reason. -
Subject: you do have to wonder...
whether the cops are in on it in one way or another. but that said, PLG has cleaned up A LOT in the last year or two. so far this summer it's been fairly problem-free. -
I moved into PLG about two years ago and currently rent in an apt building on Hawthorne Street. I am 25 and Caribbean-American, my boyfriend is 26 and Jewish.
I love this neighborhood. I agree with everyone else that there is limited access to certain creature comforts (like Starbucks). But it's close to Manhattan (I work on Wall St and have a 20 minute commute), close to the Park, close to the newly fixed up Atlantic Terminal Mall (there's a Target and a pretty good Pathmark). In addition, you can get spacious apartments for really good prices in a pretty safe area. Both my BF and I come home late at night (together and individually) on occasion and neither of us have ever been hassled, much less mugged.
I've heard from some folks who've visited me that they are made nervous by the fact that the police are a really visible presence on Flatbush and Ocean Aves, especially around 4th July and Labor Day (the Caribbean Parade). I think it's because it implies there's a reason for them to be there. -
What? You think police presence twice a year is acceptable? That's the spirit.
Meet your neighbors BUDDAHPUG -
I've lived in PLG since 1974 and really love the neighborhood. I'm afraid that Medusa is a little out of touch with what's been happening here over the last several years. The neighborhoods historic district, which has been integrated for over 50 years [largely West Indian, but with a good number of white old timers and newcomers who bought houses over the years] has always been attractive but the biggest change has been an influx of 20 and 30 somethings into the neighborhood's apartment buildings, providing the customer base for the kind of amenities we lacked for many years. You most certainly can get a latte now, at K-Dog, which opened on Lincoln Road between Flatbush and Ocean, about five years ago. That block, which once was a block I only frequented to go to the park or the subway, into a center of neighborhood life. K-Dog is always crowded, with a range of newcomers and old timers (like me). They have art shows that change every month (with a show of my landscape photographs last month). In last few years a number of other bars and restaurants (Mexican, Italian, Japanese, Indian) have opened on Lincoln Road and Flatbush Avenue and we're starting to get other types of businesses that had been lacking (i.e. 65 Fen, and Trixies; upscale wine andpet food stores, respectively. In many respects the center of neighborhood life has shifted from Lefferts Manor, the heart of our historic district, to the Flatbush--Ocean block of Lincoln.
Patio Gardens had been somewhat run down, but seems to have improved greatly under new management. An apartment there was on our annual house tour a couple of years ago and was very nice.
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BTW, BUDDAHPUG/Kathie might want to repost her inquiry on our local "Lefferts" list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lefferts/
This Prospect Heights forum wasn't really the right place and even Brooklynian's Crown Heights & Prospect Lefferts Gardens forum gets relatively few posts about PLG.
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I feel kind of foolish. While I first got this thread on a "Google Alert" this morning, I just noticed that it's almost 6 years old. If I had realized that earlier I wouldn't have replied and I certainly wouldn't have called Medusa "out of touch" for not knowing about developments over the last 5 years :-(
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HAHA! It's always good to check the posting date on a message board. :P
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Actually, there's no posting date that I can see, but I inferred the date from the OP's date of joining. Still, I was kind of hoping that no one would read this old thread. I guess you got me!
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BobMarvin, underneath my post, do you not see, in grey font, the phrase, "POSTED 1 MIN AGO" (or something to similar effect)?
You should see something similar under each of your own posts. And, under Medusa's post, you should see "Posted 5 yrs ago"
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No, I got to this thread from a Google Alert, which might make it look different. Under your post (for example) there's just:
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 1,573
7th Ave and 2nd Street
RepresentUnder the first post in the thread there's:
BUDDAHPUG
what am I, new?
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 1
CALIFORNIA
RepresentOf course THAT should have been enough to tip me off that it was an old thread, but I didn't see it at first and didn't realize how long it might take Google to index the thread.
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On balance though, I'm glad to have made my "defense" Of my neighborhood. Some of the opinions expressed in this thread were overly harsh for 2005 or even [IMO] for 1975.
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sorry to be trite, but "the more things change, the more they stay same"
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