Lawsuit to remove the PPW bike lane

armchair_warrior said:

You know what would be funny she gets run over by a car near the bike lane.

someone threatens your bike lane, and you start people getting killed jokes?

Stay classy, mr armchair...

Can someone just say "Hitler" already? The suspense is killing me.

I think that's reasonable, booklaw.

I miss the old days where accidents were up, cars drove faster, and life was more dangerous for everyone.

Most bike lanes make all traffic safer, and cost relatively little money to install.

The more bike lanes are installed, the more people bike. Ridership has sky-rocketed over the past few years. The numbers speak for themselves.

There are plenty of cycling awareness programs, offered by DOT, or by advocacy groups such as Times Up or Transportation Alternatives.

As someone who commutes on bike lanes from Brooklyn to Manhattan, I very much disagree with your experience with bike lanes.

Whether the lanes are there or not, there are people double parking, or driving dangerously. Bike lanes simply give bikers a lane to operate in, while still having to unfortunately deal with dangerous or illegal drivers. Sometimes I'm going the same speed as traffic, but usually if cars have green lights they're driving far faster than 20 mph.

public harm?

in that case yes, hopefully unlicensed drivers, speeding drivers, and people running red lights should be very, very aware.

Cool The Kid said:

I do find it a bit silly that so much effort has been made to appease such a small ... population.

Are you just making these numbers up? And the bike lanes aren't just for commuters or rush hour. They're for anyone going anywhere in the city at any time. You know, kind of like the streets and roads here.

But do we want to play a numbers game when it comes to public services? By those standards we should get rid of the seats for the disabled on the subway. I almost never see disabled people on the subway so that means it's a complete waste.

smw380 said:Come to the CB 6 meeting Thurs. at 6:30 at John Jay!!!

I just saw a flyer for this today and am thinking of going. But I have to ask what good it can do? If this was a proposed law, that's one thing. But this is a private lawsuit, so it's going to be up to a judge or jury, correct?

But this lawsuit also makes me wonder: If someone can sue to have a bike lane removed, would that then open the door for someone to sue to have car lanes removed? I don't recall the city sending proposals to community boards concerning all these roads around here.

Why should all the streets be hogged by cars and trucks - it's a hugely disproportionate distribution of public funds and resources. And what percentage of those cars reside within the city and pay taxes to the city?

Seems rather greedy to me, so why not reassign some of them as pedestrian promenades or for cyclists/rollerbladers etc., sort of like they have near Herald Sq? Maybe someone could sue to have cars banned on 3rd st between 4th ave and the Park.

Time to take back the streets. Literally.

The opponents of the bike path have taken on the BP issue for many reasons bicycles only being one of them. Their enemy, I will vaguely define as a meld of skinny jeaned,hipster,non property owners, less than 100k household. The Park Slope haves are not going to concede anything, any sacred ground to know nothing 20-30 somethings innerloping through "their" community on the way to yoga or to guzzle craft beer and tweet to friends about the awesome groupon available at a new area cafe. The faces of what they think are cyclists may need to be expanded.

Mothers and children,school teachers trying to convince kids that riding your bike is superior to even the most educational video anything. Dad's teaching there spawn to master 2 wheels while not being crushed by somebody using PPW to get to Prospect Exway or the BQE.

Evolution is hard and teaching old dogs new tricks is even harder. From the curb you must check both way to ensure that undesired body to bike contact doesn't happen. 1 lane of 3000 pound 40+mph auto traffic is gone.The extra step is not so much to ask. Precious parking is still there. The dust farting Park Slope poop for brains have fought not for anything other than the right not to listen to people they feel are less than them.

If all the people doing the desk pounding and stepping up in front of any mic,reporter or TV camera can look into a kids eyes and say." no,a safe place for you to ride is too much to ask"..well fuck them.

Using the park as a rush hour short cut with no speed limits and no/limited enforcement is strange enough. The fact that park users have decided that the right time to use the park for motor vehicles is when everybody is getting home from school and work..logiacl park use hours are stranger still.

I promise as a dedicated sportsman to fight with all my might against people who want to remove a safe passage for kids to enjoy walking or riding. I can fend with or without a bikepath.

Piano said:

Are you just making these numbers up? And the bike lanes aren't just for commuters or rush hour. They're for anyone going anywhere in the city at any time. You know, kind of like the streets and roads here.

Not making numbers up....

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/nycbicyclescrct.shtml

You miss my point though... bike lanes, like any conduit, should be sized for peak loads, and at times as mentioned the sizing is a bit excessive. Or other strategies can be implemented.

For example, the PPW debacle. PPW is a major automotive thoroughfare for BK. One block over you have 8th Av which is a one way running north, and 7th Av which is a 2 way. Neither have bike lanes and while 8th is a bit major going north, like Franklin with its new bike lane I don't think it would be that stressed. 7th could be turned to a one way going south with a bike lane, IMO problem solved.

Boygabriel said:

Most bike lanes make all traffic safer, and cost relatively little money to install.

The more bike lanes are installed, the more people bike. Ridership has sky-rocketed over the past few years. The numbers speak for themselves.

There are plenty of cycling awareness programs, offered by DOT, or by advocacy groups such as Times Up or Transportation Alternatives.

As someone who commutes on bike lanes from Brooklyn to Manhattan, I very much disagree with your experience with bike lanes.

Whether the lanes are there or not, there are people double parking, or driving dangerously. Bike lanes simply give bikers a lane to operate in, while still having to unfortunately deal with dangerous or illegal drivers. Sometimes I'm going the same speed as traffic, but usually if cars have green lights they're driving far faster than 20 mph.

If more bike lanes were done like the one on 1st Av, it would be OK. But even that is riddled w/pedestrians, and the traffic lights really kill flow. Plus even without that, there are so many real world issues that kill bike lanes for me. I've heard of cases of cops parking in bike lanes and ticketing cyclists for riding out of them, and of course people double parking in them, pedestrians jumping out, etc. Certain parts of the strategy need to be addressed

Boygabriel said:

The City slaps down bike lanes where they feel like it without ant thought.

Actually not true at all. DOT sends proposals to relevant community boards, holds hearings where the public can comment, and is planning the overall bike lane system as methodically as possible. And the most amazing thing is I thought you were quoting me and I look and see it's Boygabriel. Oh well.

Sorry, but it is. My examples prove it. A two way bike lane on PPW is just stupid. Pedestrians and bikers alike are going to get into accidents. The bike lane on 5th Ave is suicidal. How many have been seriously injured because of the lack of maneuverability space? Then there's the lanes where it's appropriate like Clinton Street and Bergen Street where the lanes are hugging the passenger side of the cars.

I'm kind of surprised we don't have a "hard core biker" on this thread, and I am certainly not one. However, I was forwarded an email from Transportation Alternatives today, and they argue the lane:

improves safety –

Before the lane was installed, 74 percent of vehicles exceeded 30mph

After the lane was installed, only 20 percent of vehicles exceeded 30mph

All crashes are down 16 percent and crashes that cause injuries are down 63 percent

Injuries to all street users are down 21 percent

See the full DOT study results here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/prospectparkwest.shtml

No one in a car is being inconvenienced -- Prospect Park West carries the same volume of cars as it did before, and it takes the same amount of time to drive its length. Because the DOT made the timing of traffic lights more consistent, cars are discouraged from speeding and encouraged to travel at a steady pace.

The community asked for it -- The new Prospect Park West was born out of community concern with unsafe driving and speeding on the corridor. The project's development and implementation has been consistently supported by Community Board 6, local elected officials, civic organizations and thousands of Park Slope residents and users of Prospect Park.

Councilman Brad Lander's recent survey about Prospect Park West indicated broad-based community support: http://bradlander.com/ppwsurvey

Among the 3,150 respondents: 78 percent support the new Prospect Park West

Among the 2,210 respondents living in Park Slope: 71 percent support the new Prospect Park West

85 percent of survey respondents feel that the project has very much or somewhat met the goal of reducing speeding

91 percent feel it has very much or somewhat met the goal of creating a safer space for biking

70 percent also feel that the project has very much or somewhat made Prospect ParkWest easier to cross

The small group of opponents to Prospect Park West's safety improvements is simply out of touch with what their neighborhood wants. They are against change, but worse, averse to improvements that save lives and prevent life-altering injury. Let's not let those opponents steer this conversation.

Join T.A. and speak up for street safety and the importance of bike lanes on Prospect Park West!

Idlewild said:

I'm a biker.I own a cross and a hybrid and love biking all through out the City. I will be the first one to say that a lot of people behind the wheel of a car are dangerous. However, I agree with the jist of the lawsuit. The City slaps down bike lanes where they feel like it without ant thought. Three examples: 9th Street-a commercial street where delivery trucks are forced to triple bark in the middle of the street because of the bike lane. Prospect Park, they put in a two bike lane in a one way street. Very few marking and signs letting pedestrians know about this. Besides, if they just closed the park off to traffic 24/7 where both bikers and pedestrians congregate, safety would be increased ten-fold. 5th Ave. Just a very stupid and dangerous road to put a bike lane in. How many deaths and injuries have happened to bikers because they had to swerve out of the way of double parked trucks only to get hit by on-coming traffic? Put the bike lane on 4th Ave. Better yet, take half of 3rd Ave and make it into a dedicated two-way bike lane. And if the City cracked down on reckless bicyclers and reckless and uninsured drivers, injuries and deaths would be way down.

others already addressed the "without ant thought" part, since there were numerous studies before they put the bike lane in, but as far as your other suggestions:

-the park loop is for recreation, it's not useful for commuting or riding around town. there's only 1 road entrance/exit to the park from Grand Army Plaza to 15th St, at 3rd St., so you'd have to go way out of your way and double back if you're trying to travel down any other streets than 3rd. Also, the park loop is unidirectional, you'd have to go *way* out of your way going north. It doesn't even compare at all.

-I can't fathom how someone would say that 5th Ave is not safe to bike on, then suggest that people should bike on 4th Ave instead. I live between 4th and 5th and will go way out of my way to not be anywhere on 4th ave on a bike. Flatbush Ave is possibly the only road I feel less safe on than 4th.

-why do you complain about how "Prospect Park, they put in a two bike lane in a one way street", then go on to suggest "Better yet, take half of 3rd Ave and make it into a dedicated two-way bike lane." Why would the same thing be good for 3rd Ave but not good enough for PPW?

joehill said:

others already addressed the "without ant thought" part, since there were numerous studies before they put the bike lane in, but as far as your other suggestions:

-the park loop is for recreation, it's not useful for commuting or riding around town. there's only 1 road entrance/exit to the park from Grand Army Plaza to 15th St, at 3rd St., so you'd have to go way out of your way and double back if you're trying to travel down any other streets than 3rd. Also, the park loop is unidirectional, you'd have to go *way* out of your way going north. It doesn't even compare at all.

-I can't fathom how someone would say that 5th Ave is not safe to bike on, then suggest that people should bike on 4th Ave instead. I live between 4th and 5th and will go way out of my way to not be anywhere on 4th ave on a bike. Flatbush Ave is possibly the only road I feel less safe on than 4th.

-why do you complain about how "Prospect Park, they put in a two bike lane in a one way street", then go on to suggest "Better yet, take half of 3rd Ave and make it into a dedicated two-way bike lane." Why would the same thing be good for 3rd Ave but not good enough for PPW?

If "others" addressed the problems of having bike lanes in certain places the DOT wouldn't have made the bonehead move of installing and encouraging use of the lanes on 9th Street and 5th Ave. They'd also put all existing bike lanes on the right hand/driver's mirror side of the street so they can actually be seen by said drivers. If they had really thought this through they would have put the bike lanes between curb and driver's side on streets big enough to accommodate. Very simple and productive things. Even for those who "address" situations like this.

You're wrong about only one exit. There's Garfield Place, where admittedly you have to dismount and walk 200ft to the exit, and there's 3rd Street. I believe 9th Street has an exit as well. So THREE exits before 15th Street. And of course the park loop is useful for commuting. Close it off to automobile traffic and you have a wide swath for bikers and pedestrians. And I want to remind you that anyone on a bike wwould still be able to ride on PPW because thankfully, the law of NYC says you're allowed to ride a bike on any street in the City.

4th Ave is on both sides is wide enough to accommodate a bike lane in each direction. Pretty big bike lanes at that. If you set the parking up like they did on PPW, then yes I would call it a safe path.

I'm not complaining about the two-way on PPW. I'm complaining about the lack of signs and notices saying it's a two-way. I suggest 3rd Ave because it's wide enough that you can take either the north bound lane/s or the south bound lanes and convert either of them into a full fledged biking and pedestrian way, without compromising commercial traffic in their driving or parking. Go down. Check it out. Fathom it.

Well for one, I'm not asking commuter bikers to do anything. I am simply pointing out an exit. For two, I never heard of a bike losing a tire being walked over wood chips. 9th Street? I believe there's a path or two heading to 9th Street. My guess is you have to walk a little a bit after you hit the playground area. And as far as the signs at every crosswalk - let's be realistic. Most folks I know cross the street in between the cross walks. Plus, you have the parked cars between the cross walks. Don't you think the drivers should have some sort of notification of two way bike traffic? Unless, signs are posted for them, then I'll be more than happy to retract that part of my statement.